slow progress.

[greybeard]

Not her, but this is what it looked like this morning.

Beefmaster.
4 yr old, 2nd calf. Her first calf came pretty easy--I helped a little but probably didn't need to.
Been bagged up big for the last 3 days but teats not really filled out. Early this morning, saw the first membrane was hanging out and saw where she had shed mucus out in the pasture. Since then, nothing. Had her penned for awhile today but she just walked the pen and bawled to get out so I released her back into a small pasture. She does the get up and down, walk around, go right back to the very same spot and lay back down and usual stuff, but no other sign of labor. Still grazing and drinking water.
trouble brewing?

 

[bball]

First stage labor should take 2-6 hrs. Most stillborns occur because of prolonged first stage labor. Still have oxygenation issues with each contraction in stage one...if it's been more than 1.5 hrs after first membranes, I get involved. Could be a malpresentation that isn't supplying the cervical stimulation necessary to allow calf to move through cervix ( had one similiar last year).

Edit to fix the time...fat fingers, small phone

 

[wbvs58]

Yeh I think I'd be helping out.

Ken

 

[dun]

Yeh I think I'd be helping out.

Ken

Or at least reaching in and checking to see what's going on

 

[greybeard]

did. nice heifer calf, came right on once I got her lubed up and tugged on the hooves some, but the momma was bleeding like a pig. Took her and calf to the vet real quick, and when I got back a couple hrs later, a 1st calf heifer had had one stillborn. Not a good day. Dead calf and a $134 vet bill.

 

[Nutmegger]

I'm sorry to read that you lost a calf, but believe your timely intervention on the first cow probably saved a calf. Given the hand that you were dealt, two dead calves would have been '... not a good day."

I guess it's all relative, and I prefer to think you salvaged the day as best as was possible.

 

[Nesikep]

I can only dream of vet bills that low!. I think you make the best of a bad deal too.

I've learned to take a look as soon as my gut tells me something ain't happening as fast as it should.. I had an older cow with a breech birth I might have saved had I gotten in there sooner. As soon as I stop seeing progress is when I get concerned now... something should be different every half hour is what I've been told.. might be a little hasty in the early stages but it's pretty accurate for the later ones.

 

[bball]

I can only dream of vet bills that low!. I think you make the best of a bad deal too.

I've learned to take a look as soon as my gut tells me something ain't happening as fast as it should.. I had an older cow with a breech birth I might have saved had I gotten in there sooner. As soon as I stop seeing progress is when I get concerned now... something should be different every half hour is what I've been told.. might be a little hasty in the early stages but it's pretty accurate for the later ones.

Your right on with my vet Nesi. Our vet group has some older vets and a few younger ones,so you never know who is coming out, but the young fellas say to get involved if cow hasn't delivered in 30 minutes (1hr for heifers) after membranes appear. The older ones say 1 hr for cows (2 hrs for heifers) after membranes. I usually give them a solid hr (OK sometimes more cause I don't always know when membranes first appeared) to an hour and a half.

GB, sorry you lost one, but very happy you saved the one too. Seems like you did the best a man could do undertake circumstances. Curious, what was the bleeding from? Torn cervix or uterus? Or something else

 

[greybeard]

GB, sorry you lost one, but very happy you saved the one too. Seems like you did the best a man could do undertake circumstances. Curious, what was the bleeding from? Torn cervix or uterus? Or something else

Something else.
When I got done with the calf's navel and doctoring it, momma hadn't moved other than laying there breathing and the calf was already trying to stand up. I walked up and patted momma on the neck, and she raised her head up, looked at me and jumped up on her feet and tore out like a banshee across the little pasture, running zig zag toward the other heavy breds that are in another little pasture near the house. Ran right over a box blade, nearly fell and then hit the fence at a full run and right thru it. Cut her legs and brisket area up pretty good. I got her back to the pen by calling all of the breds into it, and saw it was more doctor work than I wanted to try to deal with--flies already starting here. So I carried calf to her in the pen, let her lick and nurse, loaded her, picked calf up and put it in the trailer & hauled her and calf to the vet and let her sew momma up, give her a couple shots (a tet and some antibiotics) and she look the calf over while I was there.
I sure hope this isn't a sign of things to come in the next couple weeks...couldn't be prettier weather for all this tho.

 

[TCRanch]

Even saving the calf, that was a bad day. I'm sorry - sending good juju for uneventful calving the rest of the season.

 

[Nesikep]

She doesn't sound too level-headed... I have a few I'd expect that kind of behavior from

 

[Nesikep]

bball.. I don't expect them to calf in a half an hour, I expect to see progress at those intervals at least.. for example, water breaks, half an hour later, I expect to see feet, then after a while the head should be there, and well, after that it should go fast... If I see feet and nothing has happened for much over a half hour (some cows lay down, get up, over and over, and it slows things down) then I start to get a bit concerned.

 

[greybeard]

She doesn't sound too level-headed... I have a few I'd expect that kind of behavior from

Normally very calm, a bucket cow that has never given me any rowdy trouble. I think she was just in some kind of a daze and didn't know who or what I was at that moment. Doing fine today. I dunno, just one of those crazy head scratchin days.

 

[bball]

GB, sorry you lost one, but very happy you saved the one too. Seems like you did the best a man could do undertake circumstances. Curious, what was the bleeding from? Torn cervix or uterus? Or something else

Something else.
When I got done with the calf's navel and doctoring it, momma hadn't moved other than laying there breathing and the calf was already trying to stand up. I walked up and patted momma on the neck, and she raised her head up, looked at me and jumped up on her feet and tore out like a banshee across the little pasture, running zig zag toward the other heavy breds that are in another little pasture near the house. Ran right over a box blade, nearly fell and then hit the fence at a full run and right thru it. Cut her legs and brisket area up pretty good. I got her back to the pen by calling all of the breds into it, and saw it was more doctor work than I wanted to try to deal with--flies already starting here. So I carried calf to her in the pen, let her lick and nurse, loaded her, picked calf up and put it in the trailer & hauled her and calf to the vet and let her sew momma up, give her a couple shots (a tet and some antibiotics) and she look the calf over while I was there.
I sure hope this isn't a sign of things to come in the next couple weeks...couldn't be prettier weather for all this tho.

Something similiar happened to my FIL a few years back, except the cow flat run him over..just got up and bolted (normally calm as a kitten). Turned out she had milk fever.

Nesi, I'm a little more patient myself..as long as they are progressing. I get nervous when nothing has presented after membranes have been there awhile.

 

[greybeard]

Finally figured out how to get pictures off my dumb phone. (ok--it's not the phone that's dumb)
the dead one..

 

[Randi]

I can only dream of vet bills that low!. I think you make the best of a bad deal too.

I've learned to take a look as soon as my gut tells me something ain't happening as fast as it should.. I had an older cow with a breech birth I might have saved had I gotten in there sooner. As soon as I stop seeing progress is when I get concerned now... something should be different every half hour is what I've been told.. might be a little hasty in the early stages but it's pretty accurate for the later ones.

Your right on with my vet Nesi. Our vet group has some older vets and a few younger ones,so you never know who is coming out, but the young fellas say to get involved if cow hasn't delivered in 30 minutes (1hr for heifers) after membranes appear. The older ones say 1 hr for cows (2 hrs for heifers) after membranes. I usually give them a solid hr (OK sometimes more cause I don't always know when membranes first appeared) to an hour and a half.

GB, sorry you lost one, but very happy you saved the one too. Seems like you did the best a man could do undertake circumstances. Curious, what was the bleeding from? Torn cervix or uterus? Or something else

We believe in the half hour for a cow and hour for a heifer rule. That there should be progress. But we've got tons of experience and sometimes you just 'know' something isn't right. In normal (ish) births where membranes are present that's easy, its the malpresentations that don't progress that far that are the biggest problem..

Breech or upside down, or other malpresentations where nothing stimulates the cervix you may not even have membranes to go on. They are the times where you see a cow wandering around, acting off, sometimes they don't even act like they are calving other than wandering around abnormally, or you might just see a little blood on the tail. That is where it pays to pay fairly close attention to what is going on, if you're on the ball you might just save the calf, but if you're 'just giving her more time', well you'll probably end up with a dead calf.

Calving management is a nice mixture of Patience, intuition and sometimes luck!

 

[Nesikep]

I will second the "luck" part.. The quote "Experience.. What you get just after you need it" definitely holds true for calving.

 

[dun]

We believe in the half hour for a cow and hour for a heifer rule. That there should be progress. But we've got tons of experience and sometimes you just 'know' something isn't right. In normal (ish) births where membranes are present that's easy, its the malpresentations that don't progress that far that are the biggest problem..

Breech or upside down, or other malpresentations where nothing stimulates the cervix you may not even have membranes to go on. They are the times where you see a cow wandering around, acting off, sometimes they don't even act like they are calving other than wandering around abnormally, or you might just see a little blood on the tail. That is where it pays to pay fairly close attention to what is going on, if you're on the ball you might just save the calf, but if you're 'just giving her more time', well you'll probably end up with a dead calf.

That's how we do it too.