show steer with bog spavan

[dream catcher]

I can't believe this is happening my daughter has fair the end on April here in washington for FFA she paid 900 for her show steer who was 1.17 a lb. now he weighs 1200lbs and on the gain and just looks assum black angus. She has paid for every thing and works hard with him everyday and vet was here for a horse that got cut and we walk out to other barn to see her show steer and here is his left hind hock on the front of it not back all swollen up and vet said it looked like the joint was involved and it was a bog spavan. I have heard of horses with it, my daughter has a lot into him. Doe's any one have any idea what to do I hate to see her miss fair and he is an assum built steer the vet thinks he is will put together too. She needs to show him so she can sell at fair. Will they count this down in the meat class? If he keeps gaining like he needs to will the weight cause more damage. We have him up so he can't move around a lot on it now. He use to go out durning the day and up at night. Just five weeks till fair. Or should we go a head and butcher him. He gets 25lbs grain a day. And has been to get the gain we need for fair. I wish the fair was latter in summer the Fair board pushs these animals to fast and hard to get the gain in time for fair I think. But any ideas on how to help his hock. Thanks

 

[milkmaid]

Picture? bog spavin in horses is a soft swelling from stress, located on the front of the hock. It's a blemish, not an unsoundness, generally. I don't recall having heard the term used in relation to cattle before.

What you need to decide is if it's an infection or general inflammation from _____. There are anti-inflammatory drugs you can use, but just taking out the inflammation doesn't get rid of the real problem, which is what caused this. It might just be a fluke thing, but it would be good to know why it happened. In horses a bog spavin is due to stress, so is there anything you've done recently with the steer that would have put stress on that hock? standing tied seems a little unlikely, unless it was a lot more time than usual. Perhaps he was kicked? have him penned with horses by any chance? What kind of fence is around his pen? might he have gotten a leg stuck? although I'd be expecting it to be a front leg then, not a back leg.

Let him get out and move around - standing around isn't good for that leg. Moving will get the blood circulating better to the joint and help take the inflammation out, so halter and walk him.

Oh...and yes, it is going to hurt your daughter at fair time if the steer walks in with a huge swelling on his hock. At our county fair, I think something like that would be an automatic DQ in quality, which means the steer would not be sold.

 

[BC]

Does your county test? If not, give him a shot of dex the night before the show. I ran into this at Houston and it was supposed to not test and then we find out the the toxic levels are out in less than 24 hours, but a residue stays in for 7 days, but you learn things as you go.

Bad advice. Follow label directions with all drugs to insure food safety.

 

[milkmaid]

The inflammation itself needs to be treated sooner than right before the show - end of April is over a month away - a lot of times inflammation and swelling like that will be soft/fluid filled when it first occurs, but as time goes on, either the swelling completely goes away, or it changes and scar tissue (hard) replaces the swelling. Permanently. So, obviously, the sooner it is treated to get rid of the swelling, the less likely it will be permanent. Once it gets to the point scar tissue has replaced the fluid inflammation, an anti-inflammatory drug isn't going to do a thing for you.

Per the label, Dexamethasone doesn't have a withdrawal time for meat or milk.

 

[milkmaid]

You sure it was dexamethasone? There is another anti-inflammatory steriod, goes by the name of Predef2X, that has a 7 day slaughter withdrawal.

I'd probably give the calf a day, and if it shows no sign of clearing up on it's own, treat him with an anti-inflammatory drug- probably dexamethasone. You have over a month until fair time; no problems there. Regardless of whether or not it bothers the calf, I'm sure it will bother the judge. :lol: ;-)

 

[dream catcher]

by dexamethasone are we talking DMSO? He is lame on it and swelling is larger today. vet was out and wants to inject the hock with cortizone but needs to check on that drug first to see if it can be used and if it can he will do it next week and if it brings it down the he will do it again if it is aloud two weeks before fair they can use Banamine on cattle too this helps with inflamation but need to check on withdrawl time. He is on stall rest and is hand walk a little each day but he is lame and now turns the leg out stand crooked because of the pain he wasn't like this before. He must of hurt it when he was turned out with the other steer we have here for butcher. I hate to think of the lose my daughter might be facing this is her first steer to show and last year she can show FFA. She has a black angus heirfer she raised she is showing in breeding heifer class too.

 

[milkmaid]

by dexamethasone are we talking DMSO?

No. Dexamethasone and DMSO are NOT the same thing. For starters, dexamethasone is legal - DMSO is not. Don't do it.

Here's a link to the label for dexamethasone. http://pbs.naccvp.com/view_label.php?u= ... um=1058155

He is lame on it and swelling is larger today. vet was out and wants to inject the hock with cortizone but needs to check on that drug first to see if it can be used and if it can he will do it next week and if it brings it down the he will do it again if it is aloud two weeks before fair

Slow down. :lol: ;-) Go out there and put your hands on the hock. IF it is just due to a little bit of stress in the last day or so, it shouldn't be increasing in size AND making him lame. Got a cow over here with a bit of swelling on the front of her hock -- but she isn't lame on it. So feel that hock and do a thorough physical examination. I'd be suspicious of an infection. Hot to the touch? and how hot? Compare it to the other hock. Take his temperature - rectal - is he running a fever? Visual appearance: are there ANY cuts or scrapes on the hock? I saw a cow last year that got a really minor cut on her R/R hock...lo and behold it turned into a joint infection and in the end, coyotes had a good meal that day.

they can use Banamine on cattle too this helps with inflamation but need to check on withdrawl time. He is on stall rest and is hand walk a little each day but he is lame and now turns the leg out stand crooked because of the pain he wasn't like this before.

Banamine is more for pain than inflammation -- and I wouldn't use it unless you're able to run an IV. That is the way it is labeled - "IV use ONLY in cattle" - and any other use, such as IM, might cause drug residues. You don't want that happening.

How about when he moves- that leg stiff? painful to him when you touch it? You ARE giving him plenty of space to move around in, aren't you? Movement is going to increase blood supply to the area - legs are a bad one for not getting good blood flow - and it will help take the swelling out. "Stall rest" is not what he needs. The swelling will get worse if he's forced to stand in a 12x12 stall all day-- I've seen that before. Animals with leg problems must have room to move or you will have serious problems including additional fluid buildup. Seen 'em with an abcess in the hoof...but swelling extending from the pasturn to hock, and all due to standing around. Pulled muscles, same thing.

Anyways, good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[milkmaid]

by dexamethasone are we talking DMSO?

No. Dexamethasone and DMSO are NOT the same thing. For starters, dexamethasone is legal - DMSO is not. Don't do it.

Here's a link to the label for dexamethasone. http://pbs.naccvp.com/view_label.php?u= ... um=1058155

He is lame on it and swelling is larger today. vet was out and wants to inject the hock with cortizone but needs to check on that drug first to see if it can be used and if it can he will do it next week and if it brings it down the he will do it again if it is aloud two weeks before fair

Slow down. :lol: ;-) Go out there and put your hands on the hock. IF it is just due to a little bit of stress in the last day or so, it shouldn't be increasing in size AND making him lame. Got a cow over here with a bit of swelling on the front of her hock -- but she isn't lame on it. So feel that hock and do a thorough physical examination. I'd be suspicious of an infection. Hot to the touch? and how hot? Compare it to the other hock. Take his temperature - rectal - is he running a fever? Visual appearance: are there ANY cuts or scrapes on the hock? I saw a cow last year that got a really minor cut on her R/R hock...lo and behold it turned into a joint infection and in the end, coyotes had a good meal that day.

they can use Banamine on cattle too this helps with inflamation but need to check on withdrawl time. He is on stall rest and is hand walk a little each day but he is lame and now turns the leg out stand crooked because of the pain he wasn't like this before.

Banamine is more for pain than inflammation -- and I wouldn't use it unless you're able to run an IV. That is the way it is labeled - "IV use ONLY in cattle" - and any other use, such as IM, might cause drug residues. You don't want that happening.

How about when he moves- that leg stiff? painful to him when you touch it? You ARE giving him plenty of space to move around in, aren't you? Movement is going to increase blood supply to the area - legs are a bad one for not getting good blood flow - and it will help take the swelling out. "Stall rest" is not what he needs. The swelling will get worse if he's forced to stand in a 12x12 stall all day-- I've seen that before. Animals with leg problems must have room to move or you will have serious problems including additional fluid buildup. Seen 'em with an abcess in the hoof...but swelling extending from the pasturn to hock, and all due to standing around. Pulled muscles, same thing.

Anyways, good luck, and keep us posted.

I couldn't have said it better milkmaid. 8)

Why thanks, cowboy.

 

[dream catcher]

I didn't say I was useing DMSO I asked if that is what you talking about. The vet is going to use CORTIZONE. And Banamine comes in a paste you can use orally. vets use it on cattle around here and so does some big animal hospitals. I know what Iv banamine is I use it on the horses here at the ranch and I am one of the first to say never give it IM. The steer is in a outer barn with a 25 by 50 pen and a cover area that is 25 by 20. Banamine is also a inflamitory too and a great pain killer for horses read the label. There is a dexamethasone we have at barn to be given slow push iv to horses in case of an alergic reaction to meds. I DO APPERICATE YOUR HELP but I am just trying to do what is best for the steer and so it can be sold at fair for slaughter. The steer stand up good and my daughter can handle him he just don;t want you messing with his hind leg so we have to take him into vet clinic and put him in their shute that lays them over so we can work on the leg. My daughter can pick up his fron't feet and touch his hind leg with show stick he is find that way. This is my daughter first and last year showing steers in FFA she has always shown cow calf and heifer before so first meat class so needed imput from those show people with steers on how this leg would be judge in class. WE are also hosing it with cold water. vet has my daughter hand walking him only.

 

[dream catcher]

By reading the lable on Dexamethasone solution under warning a withdrawl period has not been established for this product in preruminal calves. Do not use in calves to be processed for veal. and it also says under indication it is used for an allergic, so it is the same I have in barn for horses. After reading this lable it is not my choice to use this close to fair. So I will look for a SAFER route. Thanks for your help.

 

[dream catcher]

yes they do drug test. So that is why we have to be careful of what we use since the steer is intended for meat. If this was a horse I know what to do but not a steer. Why we have him at vets I may go ahead and have it exrayed tuesday to see if the joint is involved. My daughter has so much invested in this steer everyone sure thought he was something at weight in. But in the end I have we have to do whats best.

 

[milkmaid]

I didn't say I was useing DMSO I asked if that is what you talking about. The vet is going to use CORTIZONE.

I read that. You'd asked if it was the same thing as dexamethasone and it sure isn't.

The steer stand up good and my daughter can handle him he just don;t want you messing with his hind leg so we have to take him into vet clinic and put him in their shute that lays them over so we can work on the leg. My daughter can pick up his fron't feet and touch his hind leg with show stick he is find that way. This is my daughter first and last year showing steers in FFA she has always shown cow calf and heifer before so first meat class so needed imput from those show people with steers on how this leg would be judge in class. WE are also hosing it with cold water. vet has my daughter hand walking him only.

You didn't answer about the swelling. Hot to the touch? steer himself running a temperature? Key to proper treatment is correct diagnosis. The biggest question is what is wrong? is it stress related to the joint and surrounding tissues, or is it an infection. They aren't treated the same. Again, key to proper treatment is correct diagnosis.

By reading the lable on Dexamethasone solution under warning a withdrawl period has not been established for this product in preruminal calves. Do not use in calves to be processed for veal. and it also says under indication it is used for an allergic, so it is the same I have in barn for horses. After reading this lable it is not my choice to use this close to fair. So I will look for a SAFER route. Thanks for your help.

Back up. Preruminal - calf with a rumen not developed enough to handle roughage - a week, maybe two weeks of age. This is a 1200lb steer. Big difference. Calves being processed for veal - maybe 5 month old calves. They're on milk. Main reason for the labeling that way is that there hasn't been adequate testing to determine withdrawal times or lack of in those classes of cattle. Your daughter's steer does not fit into either class. The only labeling you need to worry about is the one under "Cattle:".

You said you have 5 weeks to fairtime. That is plenty long enough to use a perfectly legal drug like dexamethasone on this steer. Safer? in what way? less chance of drug residues? reread the previous paragraph. Besides the fact that dex does not have a labeled withdrawal, whereas banamine has a 4 day slaughter w/d when used per label directions, and Predef2X has a 7 day slaughter w/d.

is my daughter first and last year showing steers in FFA she has always shown cow calf and heifer before so first meat class so needed imput from those show people with steers on how this leg would be judge in class.

If you want to know how the leg will be judged as is- it won't be good. I'd almost be willing to bet it would be an automatic DQ/white ribbon/bump from the sale.

 

[milkmaid]

Well said milkmaid, but dex dosen't have a withdrawel period. When it says not withdrawal period has not been established, and this is from the Texas State Veterinarian, he siad thatit means that the harmful amounts are out of the body in 24 hours or less. Thats just what her told me.

Interesting cowboy. I'm guessing, then, that at Houston they were testing for the presence of any drugs, not just legal or illegal drug residues? For instance, the FDA has a position on how much oxytetracycline (LA200) is allowed in various areas of the body. It's not zero. Off hand, I think it's like 0.40 parts per million. But if someone were testing for just the presence of oxytet, then you probably would have a longer "withdrawal" than just the labeled 30 days. The 30 days is just the amount of time necessary for elimination of most of the oxytetracycline. What's left is..."legal". Per the FDA. My guess on your incident with dexamethasone is that any residues in the body ARE legal per the FDA (or else it would have a labeled w/d), but that Houston has a zero-tolerance drug policy?

 

[dream catcher]

Just wanted to let you all know after afew days of cold water hoseing and banamine the swelling in hock has come down a lot. Will see what happens I know we are not out of the woods yet. Just wanted to let you all know. Thanks

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm surprised the vet hasn't recommended just plain ole Cattle Aspirin boluses. Good for pain & swelling. - And it's cheap!

 

[ffamom]

Texas A& M has a program called Quality Counts. The whole program is about market animals and the food supply. I would search the name and email one of the contacts. In the past, our questions have been answered quickly.