Show Politics

[Australian Cattleman]

A friend just returned from the world Brahman congress in the US. His comments were it was very political the show part. He said that the hospitality of the US cattle people was superb. He said that he seen some very nice Brahman cattle but could pick which animal was going to win just by the brand not the quality. Why aren't organisers a wake up to judges that won't be impartial? Another friend of mine visited the US sometime back,his comment was that some of the best cattle that he had seen were being bred by small inconspicuous breeders who because of space on their smaller properties have to be more highly selective of quality.
Colin

 

[Third Row]

You can just include the fact that the brands he was talking about are V8 and JDH, anybody who knows American Brahmans knows that already. They're both great operations with outstanding cattlemen running them. Other ranches will win some of the big shows if they have the cattle but nobody is able to produce them on the same level as those ranches on a consistent level.

Bottom line, it's not just the show ring where those brands improve an animal. Putting that brand on a bull will add an instant $1,000 to $3,000 to his value regardless of quality and it pays off when you go to market their daughters. They have spent tons of money, time, and elbow grease marketing their operations and they've backed it up with consistent quality in numbers that nobody else can come close to.

 

[Avalon]

Its a sign of the times when a livestock judge does not have the spine or the moral integrity to judge the "cattle". And sometimes we are talking about men and women with Phd's that we are paying to educate our children on the collegiate level. As far as paying more for some brands it just shows the incompetence of some breeders. Unless of course there is some value added service they recieve buy buying that brand. Such the "big brand" buying back offspring at a premium. But I doubt that there are that many commercial breeders taking advantage of such programs. Much of it has to to with bragging rights and ignorance.

 

[Third Row]

Incompetence and ignorance? JDH and V8 genetics have been proven over decades. There is value in that.

 

[novatech]

Incompetence and ignorance? JDH and V8 genetics have been proven over decades. There is value in that.

Sloan Williams ( V8 Ranch ) married into the family and has actually been in it for a very few decades. You will find very few people on the board of directors of the ABBA that are not related. There is no doubt that they have done a lot for the Brahman breed. They are marketing experts with some darn good cattle to market. Very few breeders in the US can market their animals for the same money as they get for theirs. I have had people not even take a look at my bulls preferring to buy a lessor quality Hudgens bull. Why? Because they can market their F1's as being for Hudgens stock. Is this the only place it happens? No I have seen many advertisements from other countries claiming their breeding is 100% Hudgins. Is this right? No. But it is the way things are.
There are a few that have gone their own way. They are taking advantage of the new DNA technology, as well as any and all other scientific advances available. In the long run they will benefit, and the breed will advance also.
What do you mean by "Incompetence and ignorance" ?

 

[Avalon]

Since the statement came from me about incompetence and ignorance, I guess I should clarify. My statement was rather vague. I was speaking of buyers not sellers when talking about this. I have a pretty good bull market ($1900-2200) range. But if I have a bull that I know is super stout with the right numbers, pedigree and structure say that could easily dictate ($7000.-10,000) at Express or one of the other big Angus breeders. Then I can not get the money he is worth on my own. My best bet is to tie in with one of the big Angus breeders, make them a partner and let them sell him with their brand. My real world example: I called a friend last year told him I had an excellent son of one of his AI bulls. Then he asked me to send a picture and pedigree details. I did and he asked what are you wanting for him. I told him 4000. He said do you think you can get that? I said No. He said "change his name and put our initials up front just before yours. Then put him in our sale". I did and it worked. Nothing any different other than a name. Thats what I mean about ignorance. Iwould have gladly sold that bull of my place for less but do you think anyone would have come and looked at him at even that price? No

 

[Third Row]

So wait a second, you are upset with the "incompetence" and "ignorance" of buyers but you are willing to take advantage of it by deceiving them as long as it helps you?

 

[Australian Cattleman]

100% Hudgins here in Australia doesn't mean they are any better than any other bloodlines. if anything they don't do as well they are not as hardy and they seldom grow to the weights of some bloodlines. They seem to be early maturing animals. An interesting comment made by my friend. He seen lots of cattle on ranches. There was only one that visitors actually went into the paddock and had the cattle come up and lick the visitors. That was HK. HK bulls have been performing well here in Australia.

 

[brahman]

Let me get this straight. You weren't there, didn't have any cattle there, didn't personally see the winners or the show judged and your criteria for a good performing calf is one that will come up and lick your hand?????

Not usually a selection criterial for good beef livestock. HK has very good cattle nad nor more so that anyone else.

Seems like you just want to stir something up.

We'll I was there, did have cattle there, did see the winner, you can walk up to my calves in the pasture. We won several classes and didn't have one of your favorite brands to smash.

By the way - didn't you intern for Hudgins?????

 

[Avalon]

So wait a second, you are upset with the "incompetence" and "ignorance" of buyers but you are willing to take advantage of it by deceiving them as long as it helps you?

Nope, they are decieving themselves. They can plainly see that I raised the Bull. Sorry if I'm lending to a particular breed argument that I do not understand. I'm just making an observation from my own breed. It happens and I've gotta live with it one way or the other. I do not begrudge the big guys. In fact they promote and pay for all the research within the industry than any one. Everyone reaps the benefits.

 

[ND Angus]

I seem to get a little more for my bulls than the average person. I just had a guy talk to me this spring about putting my prefix on his bulls. this fall he'd bring them to my place and I'd sell them . After I get my cut he'd still make money. Now is that playing politics or making money. ? One thing I cant stand is the show ring politics . Judge the cattle for what they are . If a small breeder comes in and spanks the big guy , so be it. ! I've witnessed so many games in the Angus Industry. It make me wonder are we really promoting the proper gentics or the right bull? What if the little guy really does have a better animal and we let the opportuntiy to improve the entire cattle industry slip by us over a name. ?

 

[ND Angus]

I should add that I have not taken the guy up on his offer on putting my prefix on his cattle. I don't know if it is really right. After all when we sell bulls we brag up our cows I couldn't do that with his bulls unless I would lie , something I don't plan on doing . Also how would I guarentee a bull that wasn't mine. The guy has really been after me but ..... I don't know.

 

[Keren]

Let me get this right.

These cattle are being given the prefix of another breeder.

Are they being registered as such? In which case why does the breed society allow this, when to get the prefix the pretend owner would have to have owned the cow? And I suppose AI ed or leased the bull?

If they are just being given the prefix for the sale, and not actually registered with it, then I view that as false advertising. If I had a bull called Pacqio Silverado, and I sold him as Nero Silverado because Nero bulls make more money, I am falsely advertising that individual bull. Furthermore, if the buyer was ever to take that bull to a show and have the tattoo checked, and the bull is actually registered as Pacqio ---- there would be all sorts of trouble.

Forgive me if I'm getting this all wrong.

Colin, I'm glad those sorts of politics do not dominate our show ring.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

In Australia its more often breed politics than individual breeders. I mean in interbreed competitions. Just because there's say a good Charolais bull in the lineup and he's won at a few shows before,he may get the nod again despite any number of better bulls that have joined the fray since the last show.This often has happened with the South Devon breed,because they aren't Angus or Charolais they will get overlooked. The one most obvious occurrence to me happened three years ago at a show about a hundred ks from here. My very very good polled South Devon bull weighing just under 1100kgs at 27months was overlooked for a 16month Hereford bull,in the interbreed bull class, despite two of the judges coming to me after the judging and saying you should have won, he's a very good bull (there were 3 interbreed judges) I said to them, then why didn't I? I just walked off and thought congratulations by other exhibitors ( Hereford and all) meant more than the two judges that didn't insist that my bull received the accolades. I've never heard anything more of the Hereford bull. Probably went to the meatworks. My bull went into a large commercial Santa herd. Brisbane Show is renowned for the Charolais breed winning interbreed awards with the occasional Angus thrown in.
Colin

 

[Keren]

I agree colin, and I have seen it too, particularly with the Square Meater cow a few years ago at Sydney ... I've posted about it before and I'm not in the mood to go into it again.

 

[VanC]

I doubt if it's any consolation but it's the same in the dog world. My wife shows Alaskan Malamutes and the politics (at least in that breed) are so thick you could cut it with a knife. I only go to 1 or 2 shows a year and I can usually pick the dogs that will be at or near the top just based on who the owners and/or breeders are. Once in awhile you'll get a judge that shocks everyone, but they're usually pretty predictable.

 

[Third Row]

Politics are an easy excuse for not winning.

I run an online cattle game that simulates the show cattle world. About once a month we get a complaint from somebody that we only pick the cattle from certain ranches for winners and that we're playing politics. They are certain that their animal should have won and sound shockingly familiar to what Australian Cattleman posted on Friday.

The kicker is, it's a computer program that picks the winners and it doesn't even take the owner into consideration, there is no possible way for politics to influence the results. They're just blaming politics because it's easier than confronting the fact they lost.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

The Highland Cattle breed have an International Online Show. As well here in Australia the Backyard Poultry site have an online Poultry Show that is successful.
Online would be great.

 

[novatech]

Bluebonnet Kickoff Classic this weekend. Any bets on the winners?

 

[Avalon]

Bluebonnet Kickoff Classic this weekend. Any bets on the winners?

The only bet I'll make is that its gonna be a Brahman. And then anybody who gets free Blue Bell.
Who is the judge for this one?