SHORTHORN CATTLE
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CattleAnnie
Well-known member
I've got some Shorthorn cross cows in the herd, and although they are a smaller framed cow than some of my Exotic cows, they can really lay the fat to a calf. They are also pretty docile, which is sure nice when tagging and banding their calves.
Oh, and good udder structure in those ones, too. They might not bag up as huge as a Simmie cow, but they sure do have a high butter fat content in their milk. Pretty much stress free compared to some of the other cows in the herd.
Personally, I'd love to have a hundred more of them to cross with the Charolais bulls, but they are kind of hard to find up here due to some buyer prejudice at the auction against roan and loud-coloured calves at sale time. Kind of like the way they dock feather-neck calves.
Take care.
Oh, and good udder structure in those ones, too. They might not bag up as huge as a Simmie cow, but they sure do have a high butter fat content in their milk. Pretty much stress free compared to some of the other cows in the herd.
Personally, I'd love to have a hundred more of them to cross with the Charolais bulls, but they are kind of hard to find up here due to some buyer prejudice at the auction against roan and loud-coloured calves at sale time. Kind of like the way they dock feather-neck calves.
Take care.
In general Shorthorn cattle aren't known for high growth. However, like with most major breeds there are exceptions to the rule and breeders that do place more emphasis on growth (like Waukaru Shorthorns in Indiana).
It seems like over the past 15 years the majority of Shorthorn breeders have placed more emphasis, and consequently more selection pressure, on show ring characteristics. Consequently, these breeders haven't culled as aggressively for growth, high birth weight etc.
It seems like over the past 15 years the majority of Shorthorn breeders have placed more emphasis, and consequently more selection pressure, on show ring characteristics. Consequently, these breeders haven't culled as aggressively for growth, high birth weight etc.
memanpa
Well-known member
i am running a few of shorthorn herford cross hiefers and cows
like em but do not ask me about weight gain etc as i am not into that, look good? yep i like em!! sell good? yep i like em!!
like em but do not ask me about weight gain etc as i am not into that, look good? yep i like em!! sell good? yep i like em!!
Well according to the cross breed EPD chart Shorthorns are relatively high birth weight compared to the other British breeds.
http://www.albcia.org/Across_Breed_EPD_Table.html
http://www.albcia.org/Across_Breed_EPD_Table.html
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
My herd is made up of purebred Black Angus, purebred Shorthorns, some Black/Shorthorn crosses, and a few black baldies (hereford cross) that I pick up here and there.
Originally, I started running just the blacks and a few baldies, crossing to either PB Simmental or PB Maine bulls. The Simmental crosses worked ok, with feedlot performance in the 2.5-3 lb/day range (up to 800 lbs, not pushing them hard with free choice hay and a few pounds of oats or rolled barley per day, no implants), however I thought I was missing a little punch, in comparison to a neighbor of mine who ran shorthorn and shorthorn cross cows bred to Simmental.
So I bought a purebred Shorthorn bull and bred him to a few of my better performing cows. I saw an immediate gain in weaning weight (about 30 more pounds of calf weaned) and another 50 lbs of calf in March when I shipped. This was echoed the following year on a larger cross section of animals. Birth weights were up about 10 pounds, but I feel this is nothing that can't be overcome with proper bull frame selection. We did have fewer birthing problems, despite the heavier weights, but our bull is pretty much perfect (IMO) with a small head, narrow front shoulders moving into a heavy hind end.
We've tried another Shorthorn bull this year, so we'll see if we just got an exceptional bull, or if the increased growth trend continues. I feel pretty good about it (enough to begin breeding PB Shorthorns), and at least 1 feedlot up here will pay 2-3 cents premium on Shorthorn and Shorthorn-X feeders as they feel they get the best feed conversion and best meat from Shorthorn animals.
I'm not sure what the US Shorthorn PB market is like, but up here, Shorthorn breeders are moving away from the showy junk that was all the rage a few years back. Its going to be a little tougher finding a solid hind end on a Shorthorn bull than on an exotic or Angus bull, but not impossible. I personally like the SaskValley Shorthorn stock due to their heavy hind quarters, but I'm not sure if you'll find them outside Canada.
Hope this helps a bit.
Rod
Originally, I started running just the blacks and a few baldies, crossing to either PB Simmental or PB Maine bulls. The Simmental crosses worked ok, with feedlot performance in the 2.5-3 lb/day range (up to 800 lbs, not pushing them hard with free choice hay and a few pounds of oats or rolled barley per day, no implants), however I thought I was missing a little punch, in comparison to a neighbor of mine who ran shorthorn and shorthorn cross cows bred to Simmental.
So I bought a purebred Shorthorn bull and bred him to a few of my better performing cows. I saw an immediate gain in weaning weight (about 30 more pounds of calf weaned) and another 50 lbs of calf in March when I shipped. This was echoed the following year on a larger cross section of animals. Birth weights were up about 10 pounds, but I feel this is nothing that can't be overcome with proper bull frame selection. We did have fewer birthing problems, despite the heavier weights, but our bull is pretty much perfect (IMO) with a small head, narrow front shoulders moving into a heavy hind end.
We've tried another Shorthorn bull this year, so we'll see if we just got an exceptional bull, or if the increased growth trend continues. I feel pretty good about it (enough to begin breeding PB Shorthorns), and at least 1 feedlot up here will pay 2-3 cents premium on Shorthorn and Shorthorn-X feeders as they feel they get the best feed conversion and best meat from Shorthorn animals.
I'm not sure what the US Shorthorn PB market is like, but up here, Shorthorn breeders are moving away from the showy junk that was all the rage a few years back. Its going to be a little tougher finding a solid hind end on a Shorthorn bull than on an exotic or Angus bull, but not impossible. I personally like the SaskValley Shorthorn stock due to their heavy hind quarters, but I'm not sure if you'll find them outside Canada.
Hope this helps a bit.
Rod
shorty
Well-known member
I have a shorthorn-cross which is one of my best cows , she always raises nice calf, I have kept three of her heifers in the herd .
We have raised Shorthorns for almost 30 years and have had a lot of success with them. There is a wide variation of genetics within the breed and you have to find the cattle that fit your country and management systems. I have been impressed with how easy they are to handle and how they always weigh more than you think they will.
The cows are good mothers with a lot of milk and will wean big calves. The downside to this is that they will pull themselves down in body condition if they are not on a good level of nutrition, resulting in some problems breeding back.(Especially the 2-3 yr olds) We have had a lot of luck breeding them to different breeds of bulls also. The black Maine cattle cross extremely well if you want to put a club calf look on them and turn them black. The black crossbred calves always sell at the top of the market when we take them to the sale barn.
The negative things about the breed is that the roan and spotted calves don't usually bring as much a pound as the solid colored calves do, but usually the extra weight makes up the difference. Also, if you are considering using Shorthorns in your breeding program, find cattle that have been tested TH free. This has been a problem for while and the Association is addressing it and trying to help eleminate it from the breed. If you deal with reputable breeders, they will tell you if the animal is a possible carrier or not, and test them if you want them tested.
All and all I have a lot of respect for this breed of cattle and have seen several sets of 1/2 Shorthorn cows that were excellent cattle with a lot to offer as mother cows.
The cows are good mothers with a lot of milk and will wean big calves. The downside to this is that they will pull themselves down in body condition if they are not on a good level of nutrition, resulting in some problems breeding back.(Especially the 2-3 yr olds) We have had a lot of luck breeding them to different breeds of bulls also. The black Maine cattle cross extremely well if you want to put a club calf look on them and turn them black. The black crossbred calves always sell at the top of the market when we take them to the sale barn.
The negative things about the breed is that the roan and spotted calves don't usually bring as much a pound as the solid colored calves do, but usually the extra weight makes up the difference. Also, if you are considering using Shorthorns in your breeding program, find cattle that have been tested TH free. This has been a problem for while and the Association is addressing it and trying to help eleminate it from the breed. If you deal with reputable breeders, they will tell you if the animal is a possible carrier or not, and test them if you want them tested.
All and all I have a lot of respect for this breed of cattle and have seen several sets of 1/2 Shorthorn cows that were excellent cattle with a lot to offer as mother cows.
Why doesn't the Shorthorn association go ahead and bite the bullet and just refuse to register any more calves from TH positive bulls? IF only TH free Bulls could sell semen, from this day onwards, wouldn't that get control of this situation pretty fast, given that the only homozygous TH cattle would be coming from natural matings and even there the supply would slowly dry up through the lack of new TH positive grandparent semen.
I think the reason the Association has been reluctant to get very aggressive on the elimination of the TH cattle is they are afraid of legal ramifications. I feel that if they would make anything out of or sired by a known carrier be tested before accepting them into the herdbook would speed the cleanup a lot.
As someone who has been around this breed for a long time, I believe that if we are going to get it cleaned up, the breeders are going to have to make a stand and not use anything that is a carrier. After not having a TH calf ever, I had one last spring. It was from a cow I have bought, bred back to a son of hers. (I know, you shouldn't do that, but she didn't catch AI and he happened to be the cleanup bull) I decided that the best course of action on my part was to eleminate them and sent them to slaughter. Maybe not the best decision, but no one will get a TH calf out of them. If everyone would take a like attitude, we could clean the TH mess up in 3-5 years. It will take a little sacrifice on everyone's part, but we need to decide if we want to have a viable breed in a few years or not.
As someone who has been around this breed for a long time, I believe that if we are going to get it cleaned up, the breeders are going to have to make a stand and not use anything that is a carrier. After not having a TH calf ever, I had one last spring. It was from a cow I have bought, bred back to a son of hers. (I know, you shouldn't do that, but she didn't catch AI and he happened to be the cleanup bull) I decided that the best course of action on my part was to eleminate them and sent them to slaughter. Maybe not the best decision, but no one will get a TH calf out of them. If everyone would take a like attitude, we could clean the TH mess up in 3-5 years. It will take a little sacrifice on everyone's part, but we need to decide if we want to have a viable breed in a few years or not.
This is one of those no win scenarios I don't like to even acknowledge the existence of; but I would rather risk the lawsuits and get this cleaned up sooner rather than later than risk this being an ongoing problem with Shorthorn and Shorthorn cross cattle. No sane breed association would EVER put me in charge; but if I was sued over this mess, I assure you anybody who is anybody in the breed association would know which breeders were dragging their heels and resorting to litigation instead of working with the assn. for the betterment of the breed.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
The TH genetic defect (Tibial Hemimelia) is an extremely serious problem for any beef cattle breeder - of ANY breed! The Shorthorn breed seems to be plagued with this anomaly to a greater extent than other breeds, although all breeds of all livestock ( and Humans too ) have genetic problems to one degree or another. However, the Shorthorn breed has a higher incidence of this TH allele manifesting itself than is acceptable, and beginning January 1, 2006 all AI sires, doner dams, and cloned animals ( :shock: ) must be DNA genotyped, parentally verified, and genetic defect tested with results reported to the Shorthorn Association.
Also beginning January 1, 2006, AI certificates and donor dam certificates will be issued regardless (my emphasis) of genetic defect status if genetic defect test results have been reported to the ASA. :shock: :?
The following is MY OPINION AND MY OPINION ONLY!: Any group, whether it be an Association or Breeder or group of breeders who willfully and knowingly will breed an animal who is a Homozygous OR Heterozygous Carrier of TH, without acknowledging the existance of that defect to a potential buyer, or sell semen from one of those carriers without informing them of the problem should be legaly prevented from continuing that practice, or continuing as a Cattle breeder! This should be considered as a criminal act!
The problem that is concomitant with as insidious a defect as TH is, seems to confuse the issue considerably! This genetic defect, as are all genetic defects, can cross into OTHER breeds as well and could potentially destroy entire breeding herds at the cost of millions of dollars!
This condition should be recognized by ALL breed Associations for the terrible consequences which could occur as a result of cross breeding and insist that the Shorthorn Association take IMMEDIATE and restrictive steps to STOP this condition in it's tracks. It seems to me that they (The Shorthorn Association) are playing "softball patty-cake Politics" with the entire affair! Just my Opinion!
DON'T GET ME STARTED!
DOC HARRIS
) must be DNA genotyped, parentally verified, and genetic defect tested with results reported to the Shorthorn Association.Also beginning January 1, 2006, AI certificates and donor dam certificates will be issued regardless (my emphasis) of genetic defect status if genetic defect test results have been reported to the ASA. :shock: :?
The following is MY OPINION AND MY OPINION ONLY!: Any group, whether it be an Association or Breeder or group of breeders who willfully and knowingly will breed an animal who is a Homozygous OR Heterozygous Carrier of TH, without acknowledging the existance of that defect to a potential buyer, or sell semen from one of those carriers without informing them of the problem should be legaly prevented from continuing that practice, or continuing as a Cattle breeder! This should be considered as a criminal act!
The problem that is concomitant with as insidious a defect as TH is, seems to confuse the issue considerably! This genetic defect, as are all genetic defects, can cross into OTHER breeds as well and could potentially destroy entire breeding herds at the cost of millions of dollars!
This condition should be recognized by ALL breed Associations for the terrible consequences which could occur as a result of cross breeding and insist that the Shorthorn Association take IMMEDIATE and restrictive steps to STOP this condition in it's tracks. It seems to me that they (The Shorthorn Association) are playing "softball patty-cake Politics" with the entire affair!
Just my Opinion!DON'T GET ME STARTED!
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS":3nw3bsuq said:The Shorthorn breed has a higher incidence of this TH allele manifesting itself than is acceptable......This condition should be recognized by ALL breed Associations for the terrible consequences which could occur as a result of cross breeding and insist that the Shorthorn Association take IMMEDIATE and restrictive steps to STOP this condition in it's tracks. It seems to me that they (The Shorthorn Association) are playing "softball patty-cake Politics" with the entire affair!
Agreed completely. This genetic mutation could occur or could have already occurred in any group or breed of cattle. If a cow family has the defect (from any source) and then uses a TH carrier bull the results would be absolute disaster for that rancher. That the Shorthorn Association would knowingly allow people to market <<<SEMEN>>> from known TH positive sires is grossly irresponsible and could lead to disaster in any herd using such Shorthorns in a crossbreeding situation. I think they are waiting to see how bad this situation is by collecting all the data from the mandatory testing before acting; but that just means another year of letting the defect spread to more purebred herds and (worse) into more commercial herds using Shorthorn genetics.
Circle C Ranches
Well-known member
I know alot of people who are crossing Shorthorn cows with Angus or Mane bulls to get some steers. Suppose to be a real good cross.
Doc,
The calves that are homozygous for the TH gene die at birth. Only the carriers (Heterozygous) ones survive. They are normal in appearance and you can't tell from looking at them if they are carriers or not. The only ways you can tell if they are carriers is to breed them to known carriers or to DNA test them.
I promise if you ever had one of the calves with TH, you wouldn't ever want another one.
The calves that are homozygous for the TH gene die at birth. Only the carriers (Heterozygous) ones survive. They are normal in appearance and you can't tell from looking at them if they are carriers or not. The only ways you can tell if they are carriers is to breed them to known carriers or to DNA test them.
I promise if you ever had one of the calves with TH, you wouldn't ever want another one.
