SAV or not to SAV

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Welter Bros Angus said:
Personally, I believe that raindance is the pick of the flush as far as I'm concerned. From what I've seen at schaffs, he produced the most consistent looking calves and has the best epd profile. I've talked to Mohnens, and they believe he is the pick of the flush as well. For frame scores, raindance produces a very good 6 score while rainfall will produce smaller than desired, and President is kind of all over the place. I am worried with raindances calves temperaments, but I'm going to use him on calm cows. Also, I talked to a breeder in Kansas that believes that the cowboy up daughters are too hot for him. He really likes the bulls, but has not been impressed with the docility on the females. I am going to use rainfall a little bit this year on some heifers and will use raindance on a third of my cows. I plan to also use raindances son, emblem. He is $209 on $B and being out of a phenomenal 9969 cow, should produce some awesome females that have more dollar values than traditional sav bulls.
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I think your pretty spot on. We only had a few Cowboy Ups that were a little nervous, but ours were a few bulls.
 
Yeah he looks really nice. I'd use him. We just have a ton of Raindance President and Charlo influence already.
 
I think in my area that -$40en would mean I would have to strap a feed bucket to the calves or they'd look like bottle calves. I played a little with Epic last year and basically had to do that before the calves started looking presentable. I've noticed Raindance and President's $En are moving in the wrong direction too.
 
dbird33 said:
I think in my area that -$40en would mean I would have to strap a feed bucket to the calves or they'd look like bottle calves. I played a little with Epic last year and basically had to do that before the calves started looking presentable. I've noticed Raindance and President's $En are moving in the wrong direction too.
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Yep, more growth comes with a cost.
Higher milk and mature weight makes $EN go down.
 
limftw said:
Does anyone have experience with how the Rainfall progeny PAP?
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According to Select Sires, Charlo PAP tested at 39
And Rainfall at 38. Not sure how accurate their test is and at what elevation they test at. I can't imagine that it is at a super high elevation.
 
W.B. said:
I hope for everyone's sake the Cowboy Up daughters are for real because everyone and I mean everyone used him and used him in a big way.
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In our experience, the seedstock folks that chased $B to the detriment of HUGE milk numbers are using Cowboy Up to "correct" for some insane milk EPD's.

I'll be interested in hearing about his daughters also. My guess is we won't know for 3-4 years.
 
dbird33 said:
I think in my area that -$40en would mean I would have to strap a feed bucket to the calves or they'd look like bottle calves. I played a little with Epic last year and basically had to do that before the calves started looking presentable. I've noticed Raindance and President's $En are moving in the wrong direction too.
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Here are two of my most recent Raindance daughters, I would totally disagree with your $EN statement

Both are in the top

Queen Mother 71 of Branded

http://bit.ly/2TKDcck

Queen Mother 79 of Branded

http://bit.ly/2HGc9aJ

Both have Angus GS tests on them.
 
LCBulls said:
dbird33 said:
I think in my area that -$40en would mean I would have to strap a feed bucket to the calves or they'd look like bottle calves. I played a little with Epic last year and basically had to do that before the calves started looking presentable. I've noticed Raindance and President's $En are moving in the wrong direction too.
Click to expand...

Yep, more growth comes with a cost.
Higher milk and mature weight makes $EN go down.
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Not necessarily...

http://bit.ly/2JvJA2e
 
It might be a bit early to make the case on Blueblood Lady 50 Branded. The accuracy on those EPD's isn't real high with an 8 day old calf.
 
************* said:
dbird33 said:
I think in my area that -$40en would mean I would have to strap a feed bucket to the calves or they'd look like bottle calves. I played a little with Epic last year and basically had to do that before the calves started looking presentable. I've noticed Raindance and President's $En are moving in the wrong direction too.
Click to expand...

Here are two of my most recent Raindance daughters, I would totally disagree with your $EN statement

Both are in the top

Queen Mother 71 of Branded

http://bit.ly/2TKDcck

Queen Mother 79 of Branded

http://bit.ly/2HGc9aJ

Both have Angus GS tests on them.
Click to expand...

That's fine, but at those accuracies a lot can happen. I mean, Raindance has 250+ registered calves with data in the system and his epd's move nearly every Friday. I'm sure when they have milking daughters things will change again.
 
So how do you all like your Raindance, Rainfall, Renown, President calves? Does anyone have a handful from several of those sires to give us some comparison?
 
My two knocks on SAV are that:
1)They pour the feed to their cattle. While that's their personal decision, it inflates the numbers. For someone buying there expecting similar results, you'd have to really work to keep up. I feel like it's misleading. That's my take. I also look at their cattle and see MASSIVE negative $EN numbers. I do take EPD's with a grain of salt, but it says something when it's -20 or -30.
2) The big bulls that I see being sold (especially to Herbster) from many, many years ago have minimal calves to their credit listed in the EPD's. Some bulls have THOUSANDS, and some of the SAV bulls have tens, maybe a hundred. That says a lot to me. Why on earth are you paying $250K for a bull and not breeding everything to it? If the quality is so good, shouldn't it be a genetic goldmine worthy of registering everything?
 
Ebenezer said:
hornedfrogbbq said:
Didn't a Rainfall calf "win" the Midland bull test this year or in the top couple?
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A trend of one? :idea:
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I honestly don't know if it wasn't a pot-load of them. I heard a rumor so I didn't know if you all had seen anything on that test.
 
hornedfrogbbq said:
I honestly don't know if it wasn't a pot-load of them. I heard a rumor so I didn't know if you all had seen anything on that test.
Click to expand...

Depends on how you determine winning.

Yes, a rainfall son did well in the test. But a Byergo Colonel son topped the Angus sale. Weirdly that Rainfall son had a 4.2 ADG, but sold for less than a pen mate/half brother (if I read all of that correctly).

In today's world I'd guess they'd both claimed to have won, haha.
 
One year later and Rainfall looks to be pick of the flush so far. It's not how your start …..
 

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