SAV or not to SAV

[Richnm]

Talked to a few people that have Cowboy daughters, all told me Cowboys daughters milk like a bunny

 

[Ebenezer]

After all the SAV talk here lately I checked out the website of Thomas Angus, a big Angus breeder here. I read somewhere that they AI their entire herd, 1,000 cows. There web site lists 17 AI sires they use. Not a single SAV bull. A wide variety of other breeders bulls but no SAV. Then I looked through their sale catalog for the sale here in a couple weeks. There is 220 bulls listed. I didn't study every pedigree but no SAV up close. I did see some SAV but it was a generation or two back.
Breeding aside, this town will be packed with cattlemen March 4 and 5. Harrell Hereford sells a couple hundred bulls on Monday and Thomas Angus sells on Tuesday. The boys will be coming to town.

Hopefully one day I can make the trip over and take a cow home. It is kind of strange how SAV genetics aren't used as much on the far west, I wonder if it's because of elevation and range.

Might be the elevation. I do not keep up with PAP scores. Basic links in SAV are Rito 707, Sitz Traveler 8180, Bushwhacker, EXT, Paxton, In Focus, Gridmaker, 598 and Tracker. The background look at the lead influences can tell us a lot. I know that generational selection can select for the good and hopefully correct the weaknesses of past generations but it can never annihilate the genetic influences. When you look at the influences, the base is not a lot different than many herds. But the feeding, location and selection has been different.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

After all the SAV talk here lately I checked out the website of Thomas Angus, a big Angus breeder here. I read somewhere that they AI their entire herd, 1,000 cows. There web site lists 17 AI sires they use. Not a single SAV bull. A wide variety of other breeders bulls but no SAV. Then I looked through their sale catalog for the sale here in a couple weeks. There is 220 bulls listed. I didn't study every pedigree but no SAV up close. I did see some SAV but it was a generation or two back.
Breeding aside, this town will be packed with cattlemen March 4 and 5. Harrell Hereford sells a couple hundred bulls on Monday and Thomas Angus sells on Tuesday. The boys will be coming to town.

I'd like to pickup a bred heifer from Thomas, wonder what they will average.

 

[Dave]

After all the SAV talk here lately I checked out the website of Thomas Angus, a big Angus breeder here. I read somewhere that they AI their entire herd, 1,000 cows. There web site lists 17 AI sires they use. Not a single SAV bull. A wide variety of other breeders bulls but no SAV. Then I looked through their sale catalog for the sale here in a couple weeks. There is 220 bulls listed. I didn't study every pedigree but no SAV up close. I did see some SAV but it was a generation or two back.
Breeding aside, this town will be packed with cattlemen March 4 and 5. Harrell Hereford sells a couple hundred bulls on Monday and Thomas Angus sells on Tuesday. The boys will be coming to town.

I'd like to pickup a bred heifer from Thomas, wonder what they will average.

Last year 39 bred heifers averaged $3,184. This year there are 36 fall calving heifers and 32 spring calving "females". I just looked at the last two in the catalog. They are both just a tick over 2 years old, so they are heifers. Their due dates are already past (2/17) so they may have already calved and they should be pairs by sale date.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

After all the SAV talk here lately I checked out the website of Thomas Angus, a big Angus breeder here. I read somewhere that they AI their entire herd, 1,000 cows. There web site lists 17 AI sires they use. Not a single SAV bull. A wide variety of other breeders bulls but no SAV. Then I looked through their sale catalog for the sale here in a couple weeks. There is 220 bulls listed. I didn't study every pedigree but no SAV up close. I did see some SAV but it was a generation or two back.
Breeding aside, this town will be packed with cattlemen March 4 and 5. Harrell Hereford sells a couple hundred bulls on Monday and Thomas Angus sells on Tuesday. The boys will be coming to town.

I'd like to pickup a bred heifer from Thomas, wonder what they will average.

Last year 39 bred heifers averaged $3,184. This year there are 36 fall calving heifers and 32 spring calving "females". I just looked at the last two in the catalog. They are both just a tick over 2 years old, so they are heifers. Their due dates are already past (2/17) so they may have already calved and they should be pairs by sale date.

I was looking at the catalog and I figured you'd be able to choose a bull calf or heifer on the older bred cows since their due ASAP. A guy in town bought a cow calf Thomas pair about 9 years ago, the bull calf was out of New Design 878 . He his still working around town breeding cows today.

That average is over my budget

 

[CreekAngus]

I'd like to pickup a bred heifer from Thomas, wonder what they will average.

Last year 39 bred heifers averaged $3,184. This year there are 36 fall calving heifers and 32 spring calving "females". I just looked at the last two in the catalog. They are both just a tick over 2 years old, so they are heifers. Their due dates are already past (2/17) so they may have already calved and they should be pairs by sale date.

I was looking at the catalog and I figured you'd be able to choose a bull calf or heifer on the older bred cows since their due ASAP. A guy in town bought a cow calf Thomas pair about 9 years ago, the bull calf was out of New Design 878 . He his still working around town breeding cows today.

That average is over my budget

Where you from, I'm in Lewis County up by Chehalis.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

Last year 39 bred heifers averaged $3,184. This year there are 36 fall calving heifers and 32 spring calving "females". I just looked at the last two in the catalog. They are both just a tick over 2 years old, so they are heifers. Their due dates are already past (2/17) so they may have already calved and they should be pairs by sale date.

I was looking at the catalog and I figured you'd be able to choose a bull calf or heifer on the older bred cows since their due ASAP. A guy in town bought a cow calf Thomas pair about 9 years ago, the bull calf was out of New Design 878 . He his still working around town breeding cows today.

That average is over my budget

Where you from, I'm in Lewis County up by Chehalis.

Manchester area

 

[W.B.]

Talked to a few people that have Cowboy daughters, all told me Cowboys daughters milk like a bunny

This is the first I have heard of this. It is also why I scratch my head and wonder sometimes why so many smaller registered breeders are willing to use an unproven bull when there are so many proven bulls to chose from for ai use. It is a risk versus reward scenario and I just don't get it. I was at a local sale this week and about 15 Cowboy Up sons offered and 5000 would have bought your choice.

 

[W.B.]

Cowboy or President ?

Just depends on what your breeding goals are. Personally neither not a fan of either bull. II have seen progeny from both bulls. President will be forgotten rather quickly from what I have seen they look very terminal in type. I know of some pretty good outfits that I respect that used Raindance after seeing calves at SAV.

 

[Richnm]

So you think Raindance over President ?

 

[LCBulls]

Cowboy or President ?

Just depends on what your breeding goals are. Personally neither not a fan of either bull. II have seen progeny from both bulls. President will be forgotten rather quickly from what I have seen they look very terminal in type. I know of some pretty good outfits that I respect that used Raindance after seeing calves at SAV.

President might be forgotten in 5 years, but you can say that about almost every sire out there. President is definitely not a terminal type bull. The things he has against him is Calving Ease, BW and being at Herbster vs the major AI studs.
Your right that Raindance will probably emerge as the pick of that flush.I think Rainfall will be very popular on heifers and will sell maybe as much as Raindance.
As far as Cowboy Up only being used at small outfits and such is laughable. Montana is where he is being used the most, and as far as I'm concerned those cattlemen are as astute as any.

 

[W.B.]

So you think Raindance over President ?

I personally have not seen any Raindance progeny so I will reserve judgement till then. Rainfall is probably turning in the best data set to this point. Small breeders and commercial men like me need to use proven bulls with daughters in production. Too much is wasted on unproven bulls. If you insist on the unproven commodity use genomics it betters your odds.

 

[LCBulls]

So you think Raindance over President ?

I personally have not seen any Raindance progeny so I will reserve judgement till then. Rainfall is probably turning in the best data set to this point. Small breeders and commercial men like me need to use proven bulls with daughters in production. Too much is wasted on unproven bulls. If you insist on the unproven commodity use genomics it betters your odds.

Rainfall has the best CE, but Raindance progeny have performed the best as a group and has a better EPD profile in my opinion. Just depends on what your using the bulls on.

Cowboy Up was number 2 for registrations so he is as proven as they come. He has over 5000 calves with genomic testing. You won't find many with more than that.

 

[W.B.]

So you think Raindance over President ?

I personally have not seen any Raindance progeny so I will reserve judgement till then. Rainfall is probably turning in the best data set to this point. Small breeders and commercial men like me need to use proven bulls with daughters in production. Too much is wasted on unproven bulls. If you insist on the unproven commodity use genomics it betters your odds.
[/quote

Rainfall has the best CE, but Raindance progeny have performed the best as a group and has a better EPD profile in my opinion. Just depends on what your using the bulls on.

Cowboy Up was number 2 for registrations so he is as proven as they come. He has over 5000 calves with genomic testing. You won't find many with more than that.

Cowboy Up daughters haven't weaned a calf yet. That is how us old timers determine a proven bull in a maternal breed. Zip, zero, Nadda. He does have a lot of progeny out there I grant you that.

 

[W.B.]

Cowboy or President ?

Just depends on what your breeding goals are. Personally neither not a fan of either bull. II have seen progeny from both bulls. President will be forgotten rather quickly from what I have seen they look very terminal in type. I know of some pretty good outfits that I respect that used Raindance after seeing calves at SAV.

President might be forgotten in 5 years, but you can say that about almost every sire out there. President is definitely not a terminal type bull. The things he has against him is Calving Ease, BW and being at Herbster vs the major AI studs.
Your right that Raindance will probably emerge as the pick of that flush.I think Rainfall will be very popular on heifers and will sell maybe as much as Raindance.
As far as Cowboy Up only being used at small outfits and such is laughable. Montana is where he is being used the most, and as far as I'm concerned those cattlemen are as astute as any.

I guess we all like different things. The courseness of bone and the backfat measurements on the 5 head I saw scream terminal. It just depends on what you prefer and whose ox is being gored. They were much different in type than I expected.

 

[W.B.]

So you think Raindance over President ?

I personally have not seen any Raindance progeny so I will reserve judgement till then. Rainfall is probably turning in the best data set to this point. Small breeders and commercial men like me need to use proven bulls with daughters in production. Too much is wasted on unproven bulls. If you insist on the unproven commodity use genomics it betters your odds.

Rainfall has the best CE, but Raindance progeny have performed the best as a group and has a better EPD profile in my opinion. Just depends on what your using the bulls on.

Cowboy Up was number 2 for registrations so he is as proven as they come. He has over 5000 calves with genomic testing. You won't find many with more than that.

There have been plenty of popular bulls that didn't pan out like expected. Again time will tell. I will say again smaller breeders should stick to proven bulls because they can't afford as many throwaways as the big boys. I know some don't like these type of statements but grow a little skin.

 

[W.B.]

Talked to a few people that have Cowboy daughters, all told me Cowboys daughters milk like a bunny

Not sure what this statement means. Different vanacular for different areas I guess.

 

[greybeard]

Talked to a few people that have Cowboy daughters, all told me Cowboys daughters milk like a bunny

Not sure what this statement means. Different vanacular for different areas I guess.

around here, it means 'not much milk'.

 

[W.B.]

Talked to a few people that have Cowboy daughters, all told me Cowboys daughters milk like a bunny

Not sure what this statement means. Different vanacular for different areas I guess.

around here, it means 'not much milk'.

I first I thought that too but the way things have been going around ct I didn't want to assume anything and later make an a.. out of myself.

 

[LCBulls]

I agree, I just think your statement about Cowboy Up only being used by Small outfits is obviously not correct.
We all like different genetics, and some will be better than others.
I only give my honest opinion of bulls that I've used and not ones that are said to be this or that.
I'll put Cowboy Up's progeny Up there with best of them.
Presidents obviously sold well at Schaffs. You'll be watching his son America have some of the most progeny for years to come.
Sounds like your the one who's jealous of Schaffs genetics to me. :cboy: