SAV or not to SAV

[CreekAngus]

I read through almost an entire thread on SAV America and I don't have any real opinion on the bull, except at $80.00 a straw that will limit his availability and I don't believe he will ever have the use or influence of Final Answer or In Focus, which both bulls had incredible commercial use. Out here in the far west we don't see much SAV influence. The largest herd here in Washington did use Pioneer pretty extensively and some Final Answer, but that was several generations ago. It seems as though in every sale out here, Cowboy Up is the hottest of the bulls. And I can see why, his progeny stand out, he stamps his sons, his genes are dominant, haven't seen any daughters as of yet. As a seed stock provider why would you use SAV influenced cattle or why wouldn't you?

 

[dbird33]

I believe SAV has an amazing program. Obviously they are doing something right, but that doesn't mean their genetics will work for every program. SAV has a lot of good bulls, but I don't think every bull that goes to stud with the SAV prefix is automatically a must have, must use bull. I would stick to bulls that are pretty proven and or fit your program. If you retain ownership, SAV may not be right for you. It doesn't seem like they focus much on carcass value traits.
On the other side, I use SAV in my herd and don't have any issues with the genetics. Specifically, I think Resource is a great bull. I have five of his calves and every one of them has been thicker and stouter than the dam. Also plan on using Raindance and President some this year, hoping to get similar looks to the resource calves with a touch more calving ease.
Overall, my takeaway is don't use the bull just because it has SAV in front of the name and don't avoid the bull just because it has SAV in front of the name.

 

[CreekAngus]

I believe SAV has an amazing program. Obviously they are doing something right, but that doesn't mean their genetics will work for every program. SAV has a lot of good bulls, but I don't think every bull that goes to stud with the SAV prefix is automatically a must have, must use bull. I would stick to bulls that are pretty proven and or fit your program. If you retain ownership, SAV may not be right for you. It doesn't seem like they focus much on carcass value traits.
On the other side, I use SAV in my herd and don't have any issues with the genetics. Specifically, I think Resource is a great bull. I have five of his calves and every one of them has been thicker and stouter than the dam. Also plan on using Raindance and President some this year, hoping to get similar looks to the resource calves with a touch more calving ease.
Overall, my takeaway is don't use the bull just because it has SAV in front of the name and don't avoid the bull just because it has SAV in front of the name.

The thing I've noticed about their bulls over the last decade, is they all have the same look and I don't state that as a negative. Very consistent in the look of the bulls and dams. SAV obviously is doing something right and doing it for some time, OO4 and Final Answer were huge influencers in the breed and they've kept their roll going.

 

[Statefan62]

I've never used their genetics before but I'm going to this year. I think the marketing of their brand is unbelievable and to me that's why I decided to give it a try. I think in most cases you will have good results with their top bulls. $80 a straw is to high for me honestly I hesitated at 40 because you get get just about anything you want for 30. Just my opinion

 

[Richnm]

I just bought 10 heavy bred reg cows. Bred to a Cowboy son. https://postimg.cc/Dm3xsm5X Seems Cowboy passes on a lot of power.

 

[CreekAngus]

I just bought 10 heavy bred reg cows. Bred to a Cowboy son. https://postimg.cc/Dm3xsm5X Seems Cowboy passes on a lot of power.

Cowboy Up definitely stamps his sons. I'm hoping to see some daughters in the near future.

 

[Midtenn]

I've seen a lot of cowboy up calves and never seen a bad one. They stand out from all others in the groups.
As far as sav I would or wouldn't use them depending on the bull and what I was needing. The prefix means very little (absolutely nothing) to me. You're right they are very consistent in the look on all their bulls. I have some resource in my tank fwiw.

 

[Richnm]

Anyone have pics of his offspring ? If the forum was SAV or Express Ranch? I wouldn't think twice SAV!

 

[Air gator]

From what I have seen over the years SAV is known for quality udders and good feet (with some exceptions). Usually the first knock against SAV is that they feed their cattle. There seem to be a lot of people on this site who become angry when they hear that some cattleman feed their cattle. Apparently, you are only a real cattleman if you can raise your cattle in your back yard with no supplements. So, it is unlikely that you will get weaning weights like SAV but you may keep some of their genetics in your herd anyway. I don't know if anyone can look at milk epds as being stable at the moment. That may be a concern for you. The bulls you hear most about Resource, Renown, Seedstock, Sensation, Rainfall, Raindance, President...and Supercharger. The older bulls SAV Bismarck and SAV Final Answer. All I can say is that it seems they have some repeat customers because SAV's ranch is a LONG way from everywhere else and they don't seem to have trouble getting buyers to go there to pick up bulls.

 

[wbvs58]

My take on SAV is that they tend to snub the establishment a bit, ie not that concerned about the EPD numbers but are chasing more the look that they want in their cattle. I am not saying they are not concerned about performance but are comparing numbers and performance more within their herd rather than outside. I think their reluctance to use genomics reinforces what I have said. I believe they do have a large herd so comparison within the herd is relevant it is just that they do not have the links to the outside which I guess when you are breeding a line of cattle this is what you want to narrow down the uniformity.

I have used a bit of SAV, have a few cows now by Thunderbird which I am happy with and now have some Renown coming through and have Resource and Rainmaster in the tank so I do like their cattle but as this thread is titled I have also had a querie on why the numbers for carcase can be lower and others? So I guess I have decided to have a bit of a punt on their genetics because I do like their cattle and cows that look that good can't be too bad afterall.

I hope I have made sense but that is my take of it. I hope a few other people will try to explain their views on "to SAV or not to SAV.

Ken

 

[LCBulls]

We Had Cowboy Up calves along with Resource calves last spring. Cowboy Ups calves are the closest we've used to a bull like Resource. They all performed very well. They are heavy muscled and have good structure, they also perform well on test.
We have used a pretty good amount of bulls from Schaff lately and only one were disappointing. We didn't really care for Ten Speeds
We also run in high desert country over 7000' Their progeny have done very well here and have added depth and thickness to our cows. While also improving their structure.

We had calves last year by :
Playbook
Acclaim
Resource
LD 316
Seedstock
Treasure
Charlo

Only sire we didn't care much for was the Acclaims. (Too much frame for out here, not very thick)
Cowboy Ups were very consistent and a great bull in my opinion.

 

[CreekAngus]

We Had Cowboy Up calves along with Resource calves last spring. Cowboy Ups calves are the closest we've used to a bull like Resource. They all performed very well. They are heavy muscled and have good structure, they also perform well on test.
We have used a pretty good amount of bulls from Schaff lately and only one were disappointing. We didn't really care for Ten Speeds
We also run in high desert country over 7000' Their progeny have done very well here and have added depth and thickness to our cows. While also improving their structure.

We had calves last year by :
Playbook
Acclaim
Resource
LD 316
Seedstock
Treasure
Charlo

Only sire we didn't care much for was the Acclaims. (Too much frame for out here, not very thick)
Cowboy Ups were very consistent and a great bull in my opinion.

How were the Cowboy daughters? Sounds like Resource is the real deal.

 

[LCBulls]

We Had Cowboy Up calves along with Resource calves last spring. Cowboy Ups calves are the closest we've used to a bull like Resource. They all performed very well. They are heavy muscled and have good structure, they also perform well on test.
We have used a pretty good amount of bulls from Schaff lately and only one were disappointing. We didn't really care for Ten Speeds
We also run in high desert country over 7000' Their progeny have done very well here and have added depth and thickness to our cows. While also improving their structure.

We had calves last year by :
Playbook
Acclaim
Resource
LD 316
Seedstock
Treasure
Charlo

Only sire we didn't care much for was the Acclaims. (Too much frame for out here, not very thick)
Cowboy Ups were very consistent and a great bull in my opinion.

How were the Cowboy daughters? Sounds like Resource is the real deal.

Cowboy Up females look fantastic. Deep and Broody. Time will tell if they have enough milk to wean good calves. I'll be surprised if they don't.
We have some Cowboy Up Bulls at Midland Bull Test out of Coleman Engage 5255 Dam. We're really excited about them. Top of the breed for growth with really good structure and muscle expression.

https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAANlQeu6sUG5A0DT43SqzN2VOvKDTbzaOvcNlxoPGEVPm&time=LgAAAG91yClmdxYolQH9BCs%2f28s1AanFHCp%2fKV2cf0sIOY2zy6l1awaZ5YR4F1p4KjcQgA%3d%3d

https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAALDBZ250Bodw3czficABCOX87W%2brV%2fyWgaNPgDTJ6gXn&time=LgAAAG91yClmdxYolQH9BCs%2f28s1AanFHCp%2fKV2cf0sIOY2zy6l1awaZ5YR4F1p4KjcQgA%3d%3d

 

[W.B.]

I hope for everyone's sake the Cowboy Up daughters are for real because everyone and I mean everyone used him and used him in a big way.

 

[Dave]

After all the SAV talk here lately I checked out the website of Thomas Angus, a big Angus breeder here. I read somewhere that they AI their entire herd, 1,000 cows. There web site lists 17 AI sires they use. Not a single SAV bull. A wide variety of other breeders bulls but no SAV. Then I looked through their sale catalog for the sale here in a couple weeks. There is 220 bulls listed. I didn't study every pedigree but no SAV up close. I did see some SAV but it was a generation or two back.
Breeding aside, this town will be packed with cattlemen March 4 and 5. Harrell Hereford sells a couple hundred bulls on Monday and Thomas Angus sells on Tuesday. The boys will be coming to town.

 

[Richnm]

Cowboy or President ?

 

[dbird33]

We Had Cowboy Up calves along with Resource calves last spring. Cowboy Ups calves are the closest we've used to a bull like Resource. They all performed very well. They are heavy muscled and have good structure, they also perform well on test.
We have used a pretty good amount of bulls from Schaff lately and only one were disappointing. We didn't really care for Ten Speeds
We also run in high desert country over 7000' Their progeny have done very well here and have added depth and thickness to our cows. While also improving their structure.

We had calves last year by :
Playbook
Acclaim
Resource
LD 316
Seedstock
Treasure
Charlo

Only sire we didn't care much for was the Acclaims. (Too much frame for out here, not very thick)
Cowboy Ups were very consistent and a great bull in my opinion.

How were the Cowboy daughters? Sounds like Resource is the real deal.

This is the only example of a heifer through to her son where I have pictures to show what resource can do for a cow. This is one of my better cows that breeds back on time and raises a good calf, but shes definitely not the thickest or most powerful kind of cow. I have a pic of her as an 18 month old heifer, 3 year old cow with Resource son at side, and a picture of the same Resource son as a yearling. Pictures aren't all the same angle and it's only one example, but dad and I have 7 more on the ground now and they are all really consistent.

 

[CreekAngus]

After all the SAV talk here lately I checked out the website of Thomas Angus, a big Angus breeder here. I read somewhere that they AI their entire herd, 1,000 cows. There web site lists 17 AI sires they use. Not a single SAV bull. A wide variety of other breeders bulls but no SAV. Then I looked through their sale catalog for the sale here in a couple weeks. There is 220 bulls listed. I didn't study every pedigree but no SAV up close. I did see some SAV but it was a generation or two back.
Breeding aside, this town will be packed with cattlemen March 4 and 5. Harrell Hereford sells a couple hundred bulls on Monday and Thomas Angus sells on Tuesday. The boys will be coming to town.

Hopefully one day I can make the trip over and take a cow home. It is kind of strange how SAV genetics aren't used as much on the far west, I wonder if it's because of elevation and range.

 

[CreekAngus]

Cowboy or President ?

Cowboy for now until there are progeny being sold of America.

 

[LCBulls]

Cowboy or President ?

Cowboy for now until there are progeny being sold of America.

President and Raindance calves are the real deal. They are young here, but I believe what Kelly Schaff told me last year that they are the best calves he's ever seen.
Our lone ZWT Summitt calf is making me want to use more of him on our heifers. Started out light and has really grown.