safety of picking up new calves

[SRBeef]

I have a real problem about bobbing them on the nose. Yes, it works MOST of the time - but, if you are close enough to hit her - she is MORE THAN CLOSE ENOUGH to EAT YOU!!. Even Miss Pet can turn ugly in a heartbeat.
I also prefer having the cow carry the calf into the barn.
If I have a "mistake" born outside, I grab a real of polywire & quickly build a fence pushing dam to other side of calf (if calf is down). Then I will load the calf up on quad & put in barn - then deal with dam. If calf is walking, I use the polywire to seperate them out & "push" them to the barn. I have to deal with them alone most of the time - so I decided long ago, no calf is worth my life & limb - I've been squished before & getting way too old - don't heal very quickly. I've used the bucket tractor -quad - and plastic feeder made into a sled. Whatever it takes if weather is bad - and it's bad most of my calving season. :banana:

Jeanne, your approach with the polywire sounds interesting - do you rig a hot wire up between you and the cow? I don't follow your poly wire...

Jim

 

[regolith]

The polywire is to guide them - discourage the cow from trying to return to the herd.

I've used it a few times to get 'escaped' cows back off the grass they shouldn't be on, use it for drafting cows and calves or just close-calving cows out of the mob - set up a 'pen' of polywire near the gate, or just hook the wire to a fence and walk with the reel round the mob/through the mob. The cattle need to be reasonably calm and it really helps if the polywire is hotted up - they soon realise if it isn't.

As for picking calves up - if a cow is looking aggresive I call her bluff and grab the calf anyway. Think most dairy farmers do. I've heard of dairy cows that protected their calf against all-comers, but never come across one myself - lucky.
I never take my dog with me among cows and calves. Working alone, I fetch new-calved cows and calves back to the milking shed to separate every day during calving and it's easiest to walk them in together than rely on the cow to follow her calf.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

First, as someone said in a previous thread - your cows have to really RESPECT a hot fence.
I take a reel of polywire & tie it off somewhere (it does NOT have to be hot, but if I'm dealing with a "known" protective cow or one that's acting potective - then yes, I make it hot). So I walk at a distance with this stretched out polywire and back the cow away from her calf WITH the wire. Tie it off (tricky if it's hot!), so that the wire is stretched tight seperating cow & calf. THEN, I deal with the calf.
Or, If calf is up & going with a protective mom, I just tie it off at the gateway & walk around the pair & "guide" them where I want them with the wire - keeping my distance & keeping everyone calm.
I use "dead" reel of polywire to sort/seperate cattle all the time. I've even tied together baling twine & seperated cattle. This only works if they are REALLY broke to hot wire.
Some will say, if the calf is up & going, why bother. Well, we still have to tag, weigh, give shots, iodine naval - MUCH saver in barn where we seperate cow & calf.
I'm generally here alone working with the cattle. I have to seperate cows all the time for breeding & I use this method all the time. As long as cows don't think you are TRYING to CATCH them, they just kind of go with the flow til it's too late.

 

[alacattleman]

when i had purebred brahman cattle,,, you did """NOT"""" touch the calf.. if a situation came up where i did it was with a truck and it between her and the calf then it was sling and haul ass ;-) that was when i was full of pi$$ and vinegar.. cant run the risk of a hip blowing out between me and the door now :cowboy:

 

[CattleHand]

whether you can just pick up the calf and walk or not all depends on the nature of your cow. Like some said, with some cattle you wouldn't dream of getting close and with others they are familiar with you and gentle they wont care a bit. But only you know your cattle. If its a big risk I would just pack a pick-up to wear the calf lays and throw it in. If the cow comes at you hopefully you can move fast enough.

 

[msscamp]

Do most cattle people agree that these types of corrections (the slap on the nose) are effective? Like everything, opinions probably vary.
JR

It depends on the cow. Some cows this will work with just fine, other's it will only piss off and make them even more determined to get you. Unfortunately, it is going to be hard to tell which one is which until you try it. I also would not put too much stock in keeping the calf between you and the cow - there is a pretty good chance that she just might come right over that calf at you.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Msscamp - I agree - meant to mention that earlier - a cow WILL go over the top of her calf to get to you. Granted MOST cows won't - but you won't know until she does it. I'm waaayyy too fragile to take the chance of which one will or won't eat me. Like I said before, if she's close enough for you to hit with a cane, she's more than close enough to HIT YOU and calf is not insurance that she won't.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I did want to say, that MOST cows might get nervous & MOST cows won't like you to mess with their calf, but MOST won't try to hurt you. It's just that ONE cow ----- and which ONE is she?????

 

[alacattleman]

I did want to say, that MOST cows might get nervous & MOST cows won't like you to mess with their calf, but MOST won't try to hurt you. It's just that ONE cow ----- and which ONE is she?????

all of em

 

[novatech]

I did want to say, that MOST cows might get nervous & MOST cows won't like you to mess with their calf, but MOST won't try to hurt you. It's just that ONE cow ----- and which ONE is she?????

If you ever get to Texas I would like to introduce you to my Brahmans. ;-)

 

[AngusLimoX]

For all of those that don't agree that putting the calf between you and mamma is not a sound tactical manouvre, please tell us, where to position the calf.
And please , only reply if you work them in the presence of mama.

BS alert. Incoming!!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Oh, I agree - IF YOU HAVE TO HANDLE THE CALF - definately keep it between you & Mom.
And - IF you are out in the open & nowhere to go - yes, hit them with your cane - & PRAY!! she's not THE ONE!.

 

[angie1]

I had a calf born not quite 2 years ago in the swamp. I picked it up, and carried it out to high and dry then put it back down. Momma talked low to her, and followed close enough that she would clip my heels now and again. This cow was used to me being in the pasture everyday, scratching bellies and giving treats. I listened to her, watched her, and remained alert to any change in her that would have signaled she was getting irritated. She was agitated, but in no way did she challenge me. I believe I could have done this with anyone of mine in the same position, and a better option than leaving it lay where it was. If you have to move it, work calmly, quietly, assertively and alone (dogs or strangers could very well have changed her attitude).

 

[AudieWyoming]

For all of those that don't agree that putting the calf between you and mamma is not a sound tactical manouvre, please tell us, where to position the calf.
And please , only reply if you work them in the presence of mama.

BS alert. Incoming!!

I must have misrepresented my position. Definitely try to keep the calf where you can work the calf and see the mom at the same time. What I was trying to say is, don't think the calf is any barrier if the mom decides she wants a piece of you. :nod: @

 

[kenny thomas]

Over the past several years I have worked every calf born as soon as I find it. Have not been hurt "yet" but some of the same cows act differently from year to year. A pet one year might be the killer the next. Seems that the cow can tell when I loose my nerve and act differently.
All the above advice is good. I can say, from the recent bull accident, that it takes a long time to heal when they decide to get you.

 

[msscamp]

For all of those that don't agree that putting the calf between you and mamma is not a sound tactical manouvre, please tell us, where to position the calf.
And please , only reply if you work them in the presence of mama.

BS alert. Incoming!!

Please re-read my post. I didn't say it wouldn't work, I only said to be aware that it wouldn't work ALL the time. I've seen too many cows come over the calf at the person holding said calf - I damn well know it can happen. As far as the BS alert - whatever floats your boat. Your opinion is immaterial to me.

 

[AngusLimoX]

I also would not put too much stock in keeping the calf between you and the cow - there is a pretty good chance that she just might come right over that calf at you.

Never seen it happen. They usually rush in and stop to check the calf. Sniff the new ear tag.

I put a lot of "stock" in using all proven techniques to my advantage. And planning what I am going to do before I do it.
Keeping the calf between you and the cow is common sense, but not a guarantee.

I'd hate to see a newbie get hurt because a cattle wizard told them not to put much stock in proven techniques.

 

[Animal Track Farm]

I try to check/ ear tag my calves as soon as I find them. I know my momma cows pretty good, as is to who might give me trouble etc. This year I had some first time momma cows and they all did well. I can even get close to and check my neighbors calves (we share a pasture) when he cannot. I feel it is due to the cows knowing me as I walk among them everyday when possible. I do use caution with any of the cows. I walk up slow and talk to them. I watch how they react as I get close to the calve. If they appear too anixous I will leave and wait until a later time. Always leave away out since you are dealing with animals.

 

[KMacGinley]

There is no 100%, works all the time guarantee on what I am about to say.... We are dealing with animals, not machines. None of our calves are ever born in a barn since, oh 2004 or so. I have tagged hundreds of calves and weighed them all. When they were born in a barn, I liked to put a gate between me and the cow when I was working the calf. That was sometimes hard on the gates. To get a gate between them and me, I had to discourage the cow, pick up the calf and move it.

Now they are born outside on the big pasture in April and May. I like to throw the calf in the back of our 1982 chevy 4x4 and tag it there in relative safety. To do that I have to catch the calf, keeping it between me and the cow and get it in the back of the truck. This potentially could be hard on the truck. Since I lack a robot arm or crane to snag the calf and hoist it into the truck, I must do it this way. If you are going to tag and weigh a calf at birth or give it shots if you do that sort of thing, I recommend that you carry a discourager of some sort. My friend uses a baseball bat, I prefer a heavy cane, I can also use it to hook the calf. Now, that doesn't mean that ALL cows will meekly give up and cooperate, if they don't I get rid of them, like the one that I spoke of earlier with the EXT blood. She is the only cow that I had make contact with me over her calves body. This is what I have learned, take it or leave it.