Rye/Clover/Oat mix on Native Pasture

[TexasShooter]

I am located in NE Texas. I currently have 50-60 acres in native pasture that I want to over seed with a rye/oat/clover mix in Sept/Oct. My plan would be to manage grazing through Feb and then in March/April let it go with the intention of baling.

My initial plan is to mow pasture, lightly disk and broadcast the seed over the pasture before a rain
OR
Mow pasture, then broadcast the seed over the pasture before a rain (No disc)

Assumption – soil condition is adequate. My main questions are…
1. Is this the right mix? For example, should I just plant rye?
2. Disc or No Disc?
3. Will broadcasting give enough stand to bale in the spring?
• If so, how many lbs to the acre for rye?
• If so, how many lbs to the acre for clover?
• If so, how many lbs to the acre for oats?
4. With broadcasting, what has been your experience with applying fertilizer with regards to bales per acre of rye/clover/oats? Was it worth it?
• Bales (approximately) per acre if unfertilizedand sufficient rainfall?
• If fertilized, how many bales (approximately) per acre with sufficient rainfall?


I know there are several questions here but my main focus is to feed less hay in the winter and bale in the spring for the following year.
Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[novatech]

Disking will kill off a lot of your native grass. You can plant no till and not hurt the native to bad.
As far as the amounts to plant I would consult your county agent.
Bales per acre will be determined by to many factors to make a guess at, amount of fertilizer, ph, amount of rain, soil organic content, previous grazing management, etc.

 

[1982vett]

I experimented with your idea back in 2008. Had I gotten timely rains it probably would have been a huge success. Our rainfall pattern have gotten so erratic now that I won't even try to planting oats properly much less pasture drilling into hay meadows.

Here are a few photos of what did survive. It was planted in October. It rained enough to germinate but didn't rain again till Christmas Eve.....

I planted 2 lbs of ball clover (germinated and died) and 35 lbs of oats. Didn't plant ryegrass as it was already well established in the scheme of things. But it didn't get enough rain to show either.


This is native meadow.


This was planted into bermuda grass.

 

[TexasShooter]

Thanks novatech and 1982vett

Novatech - you mentioned the no-till have you had any luck with broadcasting?

1982vett - Nice pics...Did you no till or broadcast? And what type of rye do you have?

 

[wheatfarmer55]

We do something similar to what you want to try west of Sherman. We stick with oats only because they produce the most forage, although I have seen some rye fields north of Honey Grove about chest high and pretty lush in April. For a legume we use hairy vetch at about 2 lbs / acre mixed in with the 65 lbs oats/acre, but we are going to experiment with Arrowleaf and Crimson Clover this year. I would not recommend running a plow over it either. Stick with no till if you can to preserve moisture and keep your hay field smoother. Keep in mind that winter annuals will suck a lot of moisture out of your ground, and if we have another year like 2011 it can kill or damage your native pasture. Our bluestem is just now recovering really good. In the fall we hit it with a pretty good dose of DAP and Potash. Last year we put a 200 lbs mix of 1/3 DAP (18-46-0) 2/3 Potash (0-0-60) down before planting, 9 gal 10-34-0 starter fertilizer in a band next to the seed with our drill, then 200 lbs 32-0-0 in Feb right before a rain. Fertilizing like that allows us to get a cutting of Johnsongrass in the summer without having to hit it up again. One thing you need to look out for in this area is spider mites. We usually spray them in January, but we may be moving that up to December. They will suck the sap out of the plants, and you won't make anything. As far as yield goes, with that fertilizing scheme we make between 2.5-4 (5'x6') bales an acre in April, then another 1.5-2 in the summer. Obviously, it all depends on rain. It also depends on the timing of your fertilizer applications. 32-0-0 and especially 46-0-0 are very volatile, and it just about needs to be cold and going to rain in the next few hours after you put it out or the nitrogen will start to volatilize. Nitrate is a way around this but it is more expensive. If you don't fertilize, keep in mind that you will remove a great deal of Potash each year from your soil, and your yields will decrease substantially. First year with adequate rain, you may make 1.5-2 bales to acre, but it will fall off in subsequent years.

 

[1982vett]

Thanks novatech and 1982vett

Novatech - you mentioned the no-till have you had any luck with broadcasting?

1982vett - Nice pics...Did you no till or broadcast? And what type of rye do you have?

I no till........Gulfcoast Ryegrass.

 

[BC]

"I currently have 50-60 acres in native pasture that I want to over seed with a rye/oat/clover mix in Sept/Oct."

Are you talking about ryegrass or cereal rye? What grasses make up your native pasture? The reason I ask is that it makes a big difference in how you go about planting.

Cereal rye and oats need to be drilled in the soil either in a disked field or no-tilled into existing sod. Ryegrass can be broadcast on top of the soil without disking (do not expect grazing until late February if you do it this way). The disking could be detrimental to some native grasses so you need to know what you have before you decide how to plant.

 

[TexasShooter]

It would be a ryegrass and not sure all the grasses that make up the native pasture...yet. I have an USDA/NRCS agent going to meet me in the next week or so to look at the place.

I haven't decided whether to improve the pasture or stick with the native pasture. So the comments everyone made about disking and disturbing the native isn't something I want to do at this time. Thanks for the info.