Rough Morning

[greybeard]

I'm confused about the bleeding out though-is there some toxic plant that causes disseminated bleeding? I could understand one or two sites from trauma, but all orifices sounds like a coagulation issue.

I doubt it was plant caused in neighbor's cow, as the majority of neighbor's herd was not affected but it is still a possibility.

Next time I'm by the vet's, I'll take the pictures with me and see what she thinks.
I do think also, that it was probably not a case of vultures or predators chewing or gnawing on her back end.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Nitrate poisoning is one possible cause. Number one sign of nitrate poisoning is a dead cow.
Can be caused my contaminated feed, grain overload, or over eat some plants like sweet clover.

Nitrate and Nitrite Poisoning in Animals - Toxicology - Merck Veterinary Manual

Learn about the veterinary topic of Nitrate and Nitrite Poisoning in Animals. Find specific details on this topic and related topics from the Merck Vet Manual.

www.merckvetmanual.com

 

[TCRanch]

In my case, I doubt it was anything toxic or nitrate poisoning. This time of year they're still eating primarily bales of brome, grazing the little bit of prairie grass coming up and get appx. 2.7 lbs. of 20% protein cubes. We don't have clover and they currently don't have access to the pastures with johnsongrass or alfalfa.

 

[Warren Allison]

I'm confused about the bleeding out though-is there some toxic plant that causes disseminated bleeding? I could understand one or two sites from trauma, but all orifices sounds like a coagulation issue.

Sounds like she might have got into some rat poison.

 

[greybeard]

There wasn't much green stuff growing when neighbor's died. They were still on grass hay as you can see she's laying in some outside a hay ring but all the cows had been eating the same Tifton and bahia hay.
No JG growing here that time of year. He has a big herd of mostly mean assed feral cats to deal with rats and mice.
We'll never know I suspect.

 

[TCRanch]

And the only rat poison anywhere here is inside one of the well houses in a completely different pasture. Our barn cats earn their keep. No old batteries, appliances, etc.

 

[TCRanch]

Talked to my vet today and he agrees with @Silver. She got down for whatever reason and beat the daylights outta herself, trying to get up. Also explains the rectal prolapse.

And the calf? Pneumonia. Currently have one 4 days old I'm treating. Born during yet another one of our epic recent rains. Gave her Inforce 3 & a First Defense bolus when she was a few hours old, tagged her the next day. Wasn't initially concerned yesterday when her mama had her bedded down by herself because this is her 2nd calf, they usually "hide" them a day or so. But by the afternoon, mama was acting anxious. Calf looked fine, nursing and poo looked good but I was on high alert. Temp 102.4 so gave her 4.5cc Resflor Gold. Temp up to 103.8 this morning so hit her with .5cc Draxxin & Banamine Transdermal. She's still nursing like a champ, even tried to kick me while I was taking her temp. And mama brought her in with the herd later today, so cautiously optimistic the meds are kicking in.

Vet assured me the pervious calf wouldn't starve to death on 2 teats, especially at only 3 days old. So, was I complacent, not considering pneumonia because I gave him the Inforce 3 right off the bat and he looked/seemed fine? Probably. Tough lesson to learn. I had 100% success last year, including 3 sets of twins, a calf with a naval infection, one whose mama had mastitis (and subsequently had to supplement) and another pneumonia tsunami after weaning - in spite of 3 rounds of respiratory.

Just when I think I've got it figured out . . . .

 

[Rydero]

Talked to my vet today and he agrees with @Silver. She got down for whatever reason and beat the daylights outta herself, trying to get up. Also explains the rectal prolapse.

And the calf? Pneumonia. Currently have one 4 days old I'm treating. Born during yet another one of our epic recent rains. Gave her Inforce 3 & a First Defense bolus when she was a few hours old, tagged her the next day. Wasn't initially concerned yesterday when her mama had her bedded down by herself because this is her 2nd calf, they usually "hide" them a day or so. But by the afternoon, mama was acting anxious. Calf looked fine, nursing and poo looked good but I was on high alert. Temp 102.4 so gave her 4.5cc Resflor Gold. Temp up to 103.8 this morning so hit her with .5cc Draxxin & Banamine Transdermal. She's still nursing like a champ, even tried to kick me while I was taking her temp. And mama brought her in with the herd later today, so cautiously optimistic the meds are kicking in.

Vet assured me the pervious calf wouldn't starve to death on 2 teats, especially at only 3 days old. So, was I complacent, not considering pneumonia because I gave him the Inforce 3 right off the bat and he looked/seemed fine? Probably. Tough lesson to learn. I had 100% success last year, including 3 sets of twins, a calf with a naval infection, one whose mama had mastitis (and subsequently had to supplement) and another pneumonia tsunami after weaning - in spite of 3 rounds of respiratory.

Just when I think I've got it figured out . . . .

When you think you've got it figured you're just ready to be taken down a notch. I know less than I ever have, lol. Little disturbing the Inforce doesn't seem to be doing much for you but it doesn't sound like the weather is doing you any favors.

 

[Silver]

Nitrate poisoning is one possible cause. Number one sign of nitrate poisoning is a dead cow.
Can be caused my contaminated feed, grain overload, or over eat some plants like sweet clover.

Nitrate and Nitrite Poisoning in Animals - Toxicology - Merck Veterinary Manual

Learn about the veterinary topic of Nitrate and Nitrite Poisoning in Animals. Find specific details on this topic and related topics from the Merck Vet Manual.

www.merckvetmanual.com

Never heard of nitrate poisoning from sweet clover. I bale and feed a fair bit of it sometimes. Oat crops are susceptible to it due to a frost causing photosynthesis to stop so it doesn't transform nitrates into nitrites.
A cow that has died from nitrate poisoning will have blue skin around the mouth because she died from asphyxiation.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Never heard of nitrate poisoning from sweet clover. I bale and feed a fair bit of it sometimes. Oat crops are susceptible to it due to a frost causing photosynthesis to stop so it doesn't transform nitrates into nitrites.
A cow that has died from nitrate poisoning will have blue skin around the mouth because she died from asphyxiation.

It only occurs when grazing sweet clover or alfalfa in the spring, and the cow bloats. The nitrogen in the plant stays as nitrate instead of being converted to amino acids, and/or methane. Then it get absorbed into the blood stream. I mentioned it because it would be the only growing plant right now that could cause it.

 

[Silver]

It only occurs when grazing sweet clover or alfalfa in the spring, and the cow bloats. The nitrogen in the plant stays as nitrate instead of being converted to amino acids, and/or methane. Then it get absorbed into the blood stream. I mentioned it because it would be the only growing plant right now that could cause it.

I've never heard of nitrate poisoning being related to frothy bloat. It has always been my understanding that they are two different things with different causes. Frothy bloat being the problem of the rumen making more gas than it can expel, suffocating the animal by putting too much pressure on the diaphragm so they can't breath. Also, carbon dioxide getting absorbed into the blood stream from the rumen.
Nitrate poisoning being the inability of the blood to absorb oxygen because of high levels of nitrites. She doesn't bloat, she dies from lack of oxygen.
Perhaps one of our resident DVM's could get us sorted out.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I've never heard of nitrate poisoning being related to frothy bloat. It has always been my understanding that they are two different things with different causes. Frothy bloat being the problem of the rumen making more gas than it can expel, suffocating the animal by putting too much pressure on the diaphragm so they can't breath. Also, carbon dioxide getting absorbed into the blood stream from the rumen.
Nitrate poisoning being the inability of the blood to absorb oxygen because of high levels of nitrites. She doesn't bloat, she dies from lack of oxygen.
Perhaps one of our resident DVM's could get us sorted out.

You're might right, my understand is probably backwards, but one symptom of nitrate poisoning is bloating caused by the rumens lowered ph from it's inability to convert the nitrite overload. I missed typed looking back, and should of said "and causes bloat," not implying it is from the bloat.

 

[Nesikep]

Talked to my vet today and he agrees with @Silver. She got down for whatever reason and beat the daylights outta herself, trying to get up. Also explains the rectal prolapse.

And the calf? Pneumonia. Currently have one 4 days old I'm treating. Born during yet another one of our epic recent rains. Gave her Inforce 3 & a First Defense bolus when she was a few hours old, tagged her the next day. Wasn't initially concerned yesterday when her mama had her bedded down by herself because this is her 2nd calf, they usually "hide" them a day or so. But by the afternoon, mama was acting anxious. Calf looked fine, nursing and poo looked good but I was on high alert. Temp 102.4 so gave her 4.5cc Resflor Gold. Temp up to 103.8 this morning so hit her with .5cc Draxxin & Banamine Transdermal. She's still nursing like a champ, even tried to kick me while I was taking her temp. And mama brought her in with the herd later today, so cautiously optimistic the meds are kicking in.

Vet assured me the pervious calf wouldn't starve to death on 2 teats, especially at only 3 days old. So, was I complacent, not considering pneumonia because I gave him the Inforce 3 right off the bat and he looked/seemed fine? Probably. Tough lesson to learn. I had 100% success last year, including 3 sets of twins, a calf with a naval infection, one whose mama had mastitis (and subsequently had to supplement) and another pneumonia tsunami after weaning - in spite of 3 rounds of respiratory.

Just when I think I've got it figured out . . . .

.5cc of draxxin sounds like a bit a light dose to me..... I had 2 steer calves get infected navels this year despite clean bedding etc.. they were a good size at 2 weeks and I dosed them with 2 cc and no more problems.

When it rains, it pours.. last year I had my first case of diphtheria... something I'd never considered.. that didn't end well, lost a few good cows over the years to freak accidents and such.. Had a beautiful heifer, choked on a %$# potato.. it just always sucks

 

[moses388]

.5cc of draxxin sounds like a bit a light dose to me..... I had 2 steer calves get infected navels this year despite clean bedding etc.. they were a good size at 2 weeks and I dosed them with 2 cc and no more problems.

When it rains, it pours.. last year I had my first case of diphtheria... something I'd never considered.. that didn't end well, lost a few good cows over the years to freak accidents and such.. Had a beautiful heifer, choked on a %$# potato.. it just always sucks

Cows eat Idaho potatoes?

 

[TCRanch]

.5cc of draxxin sounds like a bit a light dose to me..... I had 2 steer calves get infected navels this year despite clean bedding etc.. they were a good size at 2 weeks and I dosed them with 2 cc and no more problems.

When it rains, it pours.. last year I had my first case of diphtheria... something I'd never considered.. that didn't end well, lost a few good cows over the years to freak accidents and such.. Had a beautiful heifer, choked on a %$# potato.. it just always sucks

It was a little light. She's probably 70 lbs. max but since I had given her the Resflor Gold the day before, I didn't want to over-do. That said, she looks and acts waaaaay better today. Still on my radar but I'm not quite as worried.

I remember the diptheria and the %$# potato. Just one giant suck! Especially since you take excellent care of your stock.

 

[TCRanch]

Cows eat Idaho potatoes?

Not anymore. After the most recent Idaho Potato commercials, even the cows snub 'em. But Nesi's got those sweet Canadian potatoes.

 

[Silver]

Speaking of rough mornings, I guess the bulls must have got to fighting, found a fullblood 3 year old bull with his leg broke off above the hock this morning.

 

[Rydero]

Speaking of rough mornings, I guess the bulls must have got to fighting, found a fullblood 3 year old bull with his leg broke off above the hock this morning.

Damn that sucks, sorry to hear. Too sweated up to make burger?

The boss had one a month or so ago I had to put down for him. Only good thing was he hated that bull.

 

[Silver]

Damn that sucks, sorry to hear. Too sweated up to make burger?

The boss had one a month or so ago I had to put down for him. Only good thing was he hated that bull.

Actually he might have been okay for burger. But it didn't happen, I'll shoot coyotes off him instead. I was also busy with a cow who's calf isn't sucking and the mother wants to kill me, so my hands were full lol

 

[Rydero]

Actually he might have been okay for burger. But it didn't happen, I'll shoot coyotes off him instead. I was also busy with a cow who's calf isn't sucking and the mother wants to kill me, so my hands were full lol

Oh nice sounds like a fantastic day you're having. It's a holiday you know? Haha.

I went to work since I missed 2 days this week because of the storm. 4 calves since I left. Sounds like a sh*t show, cows claiming calves that aren't theirs.

We went to the in law's for a birthday last night for 2&1/2 hrs. Got home to find a heifer frantic looking for her calf. Looked in the dark about as long as we were gone and finally gave up. Calf was found this am.

After the reunion momma blocked it under the shelter and finally got some sleep. I think she learned her lesson about watching her calf.