Rookie needing advice on feed strategy

[TexasBred]

And that my friend is why you don't put out one tub for 30 cows. But you still ahve to work off averages. You can't measure grazing nor but you can examine manure. Any cattleman worth his salt should immediately see when one looks different than the others and and wonder why..it's not always feed or lack of feed. Many factors come into play. BUT back to the tub. No tub will ever be evenly distributed..and the distribution will change constantly. But it will be consumed. You can and should do the math as the result is a tool....If he puts out 2 or even 3 tubs for the same 30 cows every cow has the opportunity to eat at recommended levels as you said. Otherwise it's a complete disaster and waste. Even in O&G nothing is constant. Your meters give you numbers that can and do fluctuate wildly sometimes but at the end of the month you have a total that can be used to calculate flow for any period you can think of ...daily, hourly or whatever.

 

[Brute 23]

We will have to agree to disagree. In O&G, cattle, or any business there is a place for averaging in projections and other things but its not always the best method. When you want to see the direct re-action to an action you have to know all the factors that produced the outcome or atleast acknowledge there are factors you may not be taking in to account or your just throwing stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks.

 

[TexasBred]

We will have to agree to disagree. In O&G, cattle, or any business there is a place for averaging in projections and other things but its not always the best method. When you want to see the direct re-action to an action you have to know all the factors that produced the outcome or atleast acknowledge there are factors you may not be taking in to account or your just throwing stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks.

In ruminant nutrition you learn to use "ranges" of numbers as well as "averages" because not even in the laboratory settings are cattle and conditions precise or predictable. You can formulate the best feed down to 4 decimals but when you have to make that feed you try to "get close" and then watch and hope the feed gets close to doing what what all your research said it "should do". As for "factors", that's exactly why you work in ranges. Unless you can house, feed, control climate and every other influence on each cow individually you have to work with the "herd". Notice feed tags always say give a range for the feeding directions but seldom are all of the individuals exactly the same. And you're only throwing stuff against the wall if you don't know you cattle and what you're doing with them over time. That's the difference between real cattlemen and "hats". I have no problem agreeing to disagree. ;-)

 

[TheLazyM]

Mark as you noticed culls do in fact sell at the sale. To understand why this is you simply answer the question what is a cull? Simplest answer is a cull is a animal cut from a producers herd that didn't meet "their" standards not "the standard". What producer may not want in his herd doesn't have anything to do w/ what you want in yours. At the steakhouse you don't know if your eating cull or not.
I do not share the thoughts that feeding through drought isn't cost effective. There's more to the story than that. Here in N.Al I get $550-$650 a calf ranging 450-550 lbs @ 6 months old. I figure 6 5x5 bales of hay per every 5 head a month. I give $25-$35 a bale.last winter was the worst winter I've ever had my total cost for hay through the winter came to $54 a head a month.once I figured my corn,soyhull pellets and tubs/blocksit came to $67 a month. So I easily clear $200 a calf. My thoughts on this the cow is already breed and is going to generate a harvest next year. If you sell her you have to buy breed/breed back to have a harvest next year. No harvest = no $.
How I make this work for me I sell at 6 months. I breed for Jan-feb calving. I sell durning the hay season. I buy my hay then out the field. This keeps buying needed hay from breaking my pockets. Then I make my decision what animals to keep when going into feeding times by the hay I have. If I don't have enough and can't get what I need I thin out to what I can. If I have or can get the hay I'll hold all my animals.
The best cost effective system is to buy good hay. There's no way around it. Cheap hay just isn't cost effective. Go ahead and find you a producer learn his forage look at his analysis and pay the $5-10 more a bale. It'll pay out by the end of the feeding season.

 

[MadRanchTX]

LazyM
I guess by definition every cow that goes to the sale barn is a cull. I don't consider mine culls but a way to feed the remainder.
I think a lot of the cows at the sale where there for the same reason.
I totally agree, It is worth the extra $ to buy good hay and not suppliment, the only problem this year is good hay is today good hay is a little over double of normal years and will easily be triple or more later in the year.

 

[TexasBred]

Not many cull cows going to the sale barns now at all...they all went a couple months ago. A huge number of very good cows being sold now and folks are now having to make those decisions that really break their heart in order to be able to keep the "very best" and be able to feed them.

 

[TheLazyM]

Mark I know whatcha mean about good hay is hard to find. That's when you buy the best you can get. That still puts your supplement in position to work for you. I watch guys every year go out and buy the cheapest hay and feed roughage tubs, feed, and grain and still lose weight. Its so heart breaking. They end up selling animals in jan and feb and get beat over the head.
Something that helps me out is I help some farmers w/ their grain harvest. I cleanup spilled grain up and feed it to my cattle. Go to a feed row crop farmers and ask em if they mind if you cleanup their spilled grain/cotton trash. It adds up fast. Go to your cotton gin and see if they'll give you gin trash. Except for soybeans your grains has less protein then your good hay so it makes for a good supplement. A lot of people don't know that there is actually 2 proteins that figured in the total protein. 1 protein is used by the rumen microorbs and the other is used by the body. Grains like corn is good for energy. There is some real cheap alternatives when supplementing you just have to explore what your area has to offer.

 

[MadRanchTX]

After all my whining on here I have a new mouth to feed. Ran across a gentlemen just north of me selling off this years young bull crop. He was going to wait for spring but decided to sell instead of feed. I AI'd last time with not very good results so figured I try the natural route this time. 10 month old registered black angus for $1000.00. Nice looking youngster, he's thin but not skinny. Thought I'd put him on feed, get some weight on him and turn him loose on the girls in December. Extra cost of feed over the winter will be about the same as the cost of AI so even if I end up selling him in the spring I should break even or come out a little ahead.

LazyM- your tag line is the reason I'm on here!

 

[bluegoose 1]

Hello Mark
I'm here in Texas I've sold down from 47 momma cows to 14 sold all my steer calves. I'm trying to hold on to my heifers. I'm looking for heifers to be sky high in 2012. As of today I still have 99 rolls of hay. So I am rationing it out My mommas get 2 bales a week. My 8 heifers get 1 bale a week.The heifers get 50 pounds of 20 per cent cubes per day My mommas get 100 pounds a day of 20 per cent cubes a day. That is 3 bags a day at $8.50 a bag To me it is cheaper than $75.00 to a $100.00 a roll of hay What do you think about this process? It took me 15 years to build from 2 cows to 47 I am to hard headed to sell out completely, I plan that what I spend on feed is a deduction off of my income tax. The money that I received for the cows is taxable income.

 

[bigbull338]

you can buy an feed that high priced hay if you have to.an that will get you through but also put you in a hole for a long time to come.we built a new fence an put our cows on 25acs that hadnt been grazed in 2yrs.that has helped alot but they are knocking a dent in it as theres close to 90hd.we put out 2 old bales of hay sat so i hope they last 5 days.we are feeding the baked tubbs an range meal with salt in it.an getting ready to change over to an all in 1 feed,that has evewrything in it that they need.an feeding it you dont have to feed hay at all.

 

[Brute 23]

Feed the least amount of hay possible and supplement with feed if you are going to try to stay in it. You can buy feed all day long. The hay situation is only going to get worse.

 

[Texas Gal]

I'm currently limit feeding hay. It's a pain in the a$$ and time consuming but it really stretches the hay. We turn them in to eat hay for 1 to 1 1/2 hours every evening, then call them out and feed a small ( and I mean small, about a 1 pound /head) amount of cubes. You have to put out enough round bales to let all eat at the same time or else the boss cows get it all.The cows had it figured out after a couple of days and are now just like a bunch of dairy cows waiting at the gate. It'll be an even bigger pain when it starts getting dark before 6 pm.

 

[bigbull338]

we lmit the amount of bales we put out in a week,right now we might put out 2 bales a week.an let the cows eat till its gone.then they eat in the pastures or get range meal.

 

[TexasBred]

That's 3-4 lbs per head per day if they don't eat it all in day one...at that rate BB I wouldn't bother putting anything out.