Are you for or against RFID electronic tags?
See: http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-12 ... --,00.html
RFID electronic tags ??
- Thread starter Sir Loin
- Start date
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Dun,
I'm against it, unless someone can show me a good reason why I should be for it. I have read all the reasons USDA gives and I just don't see the cost being justified.
But in any event, I expect it to be mandatory in TN in about 2 years.
See: http://www.state.tn.us/agriculture/tpis/
How's that? It cost you a couple of bucks per calf for the tags.
I'm against it, unless someone can show me a good reason why I should be for it. I have read all the reasons USDA gives and I just don't see the cost being justified.
But in any event, I expect it to be mandatory in TN in about 2 years.
See: http://www.state.tn.us/agriculture/tpis/
Rustler9
Well-known member
Definitely not for it. Can't see how it's going to help us. I think it'll put dollars in someone else's pocket, of course they'll be coming out of our pockets.
preston39
Well-known member
The majority of producers approve of the check-off ...which is highly touted as a success story for beef marketing.
We are part of a world market why wouldn't we need good marketing techniques to be competitive there? The USDA says they need animal premise ID verification to eliminate it as a basis for USA meat rejection excuses.
If we don't do it voluntarily we will be required to do so...soon.....by the international community.
Just give us COOL and it will be an even playing field.
I don't like it but, agree.
We are part of a world market why wouldn't we need good marketing techniques to be competitive there? The USDA says they need animal premise ID verification to eliminate it as a basis for USA meat rejection excuses.
If we don't do it voluntarily we will be required to do so...soon.....by the international community.
Just give us COOL and it will be an even playing field.
I don't like it but, agree.
Rustler9
Well-known member
Just got this email today. Thought it was an interesting look into NAIS:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our Tax Dollars at Work:
Chasing a cow over 5 states
By Darol Dickinson
January 25, 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The government keeps repeating that the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is necessary to provide 48-hour tracking to improve animal health. To some people, this sounds plausible. But even a little scratching under the surface reveals that these claims have holes a mile wide. My personal experience with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and animal tracking makes it clear that this will be just another program to increase the size of government, and place individuals at the mercy of bureaucratic whims, while doing absolutely nothing to actually address animal health.
On January 22, 2007, an Investigator for the USDA, Carl H. LaLonde, Jr., of Raleigh, N.C. came to our ranch. He showed me his gold and silver badge, and laid a health paper on my desk. He asked, "Do you notice anything wrong with that?" I looked it over, noticing it was a cow we sold a year ago. I remembered the cow. After a careful viewing, I said, "No, I am sorry I do not know what is wrong."
Reply, "You have exported cattle all over the world, and you can't see the cow doesn't have an ID number - it says there is supposed to be a number on the cow!"
Actually, the box on the form said, "Eartag no. or other official identification, name or description." When I pointed out that the cow's registered name was clearly typed, meeting that requirement, LaLonde interrupted, and insisted that only a "valid number" would do.
So here's the story: In June 2005, we purchased a herd of 472 registered Texas Longhorn cattle in Oklahoma. Each animal received a health certificate from P. L. Edmonds, DVM, of Morris, Oklahoma. In January 2006, we sold one cow, named Rosey Barb, to an Ohio producer. Her health paper was prepared, to ship her from Oklahoma to Dundee, Ohio.
In August 2006, LaLonde arrived, unannounced, at Dundee, Ohio and quizzed the owner about the shipment of Rosey Barb. Being a first-time importer from Oklahoma, he was shocked. He was innocent of any wrongdoing. LaLonde did not ask to see the cow, health records, or if she was dead or alive - the issue was entirely about paperwork, not inspecting the animal, or protecting animal health.
In our conversation, LaLonde asked me who was driving the truck when Rosey crossed the state lines. He assured us the driver who had crossed into Ohio without legal paper work was in violation. I assured him I had authorized the shipment and no matter who the driver was, I was fully responsible.
LaLonde then said that the Oklahoma vet was at fault for omitting the number. Since the vet was licensed by the USDA, the government would punish him. We had physically transported the cow to Ohio without proper documentation, and would equally be in violation. A citation would be in order and the case would be recorded on our ranch records. I was required to fill out numerous forms admitting guilt and detailing each fact for further prosecution. Although I have never had a USDA violation in Ohio, ever, the next time something happens, I will be treated as a "second time offender." That will be considered, in USDA legal terms, "wanton, habitual disregard of the law." And all because a veterinarian wrote the cow's name on the form instead of a number.
I asked what would be done to Dr. Edmonds. LaLonde said Edmonds had no excuse. He knows this number is required, and understands the penalties if he does not fill out a health paper exactly correct. Dr. Edmonds would have a hearing, and he might even lose his license. I said it would be depressing to think a professional with a major large animal health practice could lose his license over one number. Investigator LaLonde smiled. His job was investigation and prosecution, not fairness or animal health. Dr. Edmonds prepared health papers for over 400 cattle for Dickinson Cattle Co. and left one number off of one certificate, and he will pay the price.
This was not an issue of BSE, TB, Bangs, a stolen cow, or forgery. It was one number. As of today, LaLonde has driven several hundred miles about this one single number. It could have been handled by phone.
This is USDA. This is what it can be like to have NAIS enforcers at the door. NAIS will penalize veterinarians, livestock owners, buyers, haulers and numerous livestock workers. One wrong number. What will it cost your family if we have a fully-functional NAIS?
It is the serious job of every USA livestock owner to oppose the total USDA program of NAIS. Do this for your family and children. NAIS is cold and ruthless. It is not about disease - it is about control. Call your state, federal and all elected officials who have authority to stop NAIS. Each farm/ranch has a few months left to fight for your freedom against wanton, unremorseful, full-time enforcement of the most feared USDA proposal in history: NAIS.
As Investigator LaLonde left the office, he smiled, shook my hand and said, "I love my job."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our Tax Dollars at Work:
Chasing a cow over 5 states
By Darol Dickinson
January 25, 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The government keeps repeating that the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is necessary to provide 48-hour tracking to improve animal health. To some people, this sounds plausible. But even a little scratching under the surface reveals that these claims have holes a mile wide. My personal experience with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and animal tracking makes it clear that this will be just another program to increase the size of government, and place individuals at the mercy of bureaucratic whims, while doing absolutely nothing to actually address animal health.
On January 22, 2007, an Investigator for the USDA, Carl H. LaLonde, Jr., of Raleigh, N.C. came to our ranch. He showed me his gold and silver badge, and laid a health paper on my desk. He asked, "Do you notice anything wrong with that?" I looked it over, noticing it was a cow we sold a year ago. I remembered the cow. After a careful viewing, I said, "No, I am sorry I do not know what is wrong."
Reply, "You have exported cattle all over the world, and you can't see the cow doesn't have an ID number - it says there is supposed to be a number on the cow!"
Actually, the box on the form said, "Eartag no. or other official identification, name or description." When I pointed out that the cow's registered name was clearly typed, meeting that requirement, LaLonde interrupted, and insisted that only a "valid number" would do.
So here's the story: In June 2005, we purchased a herd of 472 registered Texas Longhorn cattle in Oklahoma. Each animal received a health certificate from P. L. Edmonds, DVM, of Morris, Oklahoma. In January 2006, we sold one cow, named Rosey Barb, to an Ohio producer. Her health paper was prepared, to ship her from Oklahoma to Dundee, Ohio.
In August 2006, LaLonde arrived, unannounced, at Dundee, Ohio and quizzed the owner about the shipment of Rosey Barb. Being a first-time importer from Oklahoma, he was shocked. He was innocent of any wrongdoing. LaLonde did not ask to see the cow, health records, or if she was dead or alive - the issue was entirely about paperwork, not inspecting the animal, or protecting animal health.
In our conversation, LaLonde asked me who was driving the truck when Rosey crossed the state lines. He assured us the driver who had crossed into Ohio without legal paper work was in violation. I assured him I had authorized the shipment and no matter who the driver was, I was fully responsible.
LaLonde then said that the Oklahoma vet was at fault for omitting the number. Since the vet was licensed by the USDA, the government would punish him. We had physically transported the cow to Ohio without proper documentation, and would equally be in violation. A citation would be in order and the case would be recorded on our ranch records. I was required to fill out numerous forms admitting guilt and detailing each fact for further prosecution. Although I have never had a USDA violation in Ohio, ever, the next time something happens, I will be treated as a "second time offender." That will be considered, in USDA legal terms, "wanton, habitual disregard of the law." And all because a veterinarian wrote the cow's name on the form instead of a number.
I asked what would be done to Dr. Edmonds. LaLonde said Edmonds had no excuse. He knows this number is required, and understands the penalties if he does not fill out a health paper exactly correct. Dr. Edmonds would have a hearing, and he might even lose his license. I said it would be depressing to think a professional with a major large animal health practice could lose his license over one number. Investigator LaLonde smiled. His job was investigation and prosecution, not fairness or animal health. Dr. Edmonds prepared health papers for over 400 cattle for Dickinson Cattle Co. and left one number off of one certificate, and he will pay the price.
This was not an issue of BSE, TB, Bangs, a stolen cow, or forgery. It was one number. As of today, LaLonde has driven several hundred miles about this one single number. It could have been handled by phone.
This is USDA. This is what it can be like to have NAIS enforcers at the door. NAIS will penalize veterinarians, livestock owners, buyers, haulers and numerous livestock workers. One wrong number. What will it cost your family if we have a fully-functional NAIS?
It is the serious job of every USA livestock owner to oppose the total USDA program of NAIS. Do this for your family and children. NAIS is cold and ruthless. It is not about disease - it is about control. Call your state, federal and all elected officials who have authority to stop NAIS. Each farm/ranch has a few months left to fight for your freedom against wanton, unremorseful, full-time enforcement of the most feared USDA proposal in history: NAIS.
As Investigator LaLonde left the office, he smiled, shook my hand and said, "I love my job."
preston39
Well-known member
"Tennessee Program Offers Cattle Incentive
The Tennessee Department of Agriculture is paying producers up to $500 for marketing their cattle through a USDA-approved age- and source-verified program and state-approved precondition program, according to an article appearing in The Leaf Chronicle.
Tennessee Agriculture Commissioner Ken Givens said producers will be paid up to $250 for cattle enrolled in each program.
"With these payments, we want to encourage better cattle management and to ensure that Tennessee cattle producers have access to domestic and international markets where age and source verification is fast becoming a standard," Givens stated in the article.
The new marketing incentive program, according to The Leaf Chronicle, is in addition to cattle genetic and handling facilities cost-share incentives funded through the Tennessee Agricultural Enhancement Program.
Survey Shows Support for Beef Checkoff
A nationwide survey released last week shows cattlemen support the beef checkoff, the Missouri Beef Industry Council reports.
According to the organization, the survey found that 72% of producers approve of the beef checkoff program. Survey results also show 82% of cattlemen are in favor of voting periodically on the continuation of the checkoff program, and 92% of respondants would like to see all or at least a portion of beef checkoff dollars used to promote only U.S.-born-and-raised beef.
The survey, which was conducted by the Gallup Organization, was a result of a May 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision in a court case between the Cattlemen's Beef Board (CBB) and the Livestock Marketing Association (LMA). The survey interviewed 80,000 producers during October and November 2006. The full report is available at http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mpb/rp-beef.htm.
— compiled by Crystal Albers, associate editor, Angus Productions"
The Tennessee Department of Agriculture is paying producers up to $500 for marketing their cattle through a USDA-approved age- and source-verified program and state-approved precondition program, according to an article appearing in The Leaf Chronicle.
Tennessee Agriculture Commissioner Ken Givens said producers will be paid up to $250 for cattle enrolled in each program.
"With these payments, we want to encourage better cattle management and to ensure that Tennessee cattle producers have access to domestic and international markets where age and source verification is fast becoming a standard," Givens stated in the article.
The new marketing incentive program, according to The Leaf Chronicle, is in addition to cattle genetic and handling facilities cost-share incentives funded through the Tennessee Agricultural Enhancement Program.
Survey Shows Support for Beef Checkoff
A nationwide survey released last week shows cattlemen support the beef checkoff, the Missouri Beef Industry Council reports.
According to the organization, the survey found that 72% of producers approve of the beef checkoff program. Survey results also show 82% of cattlemen are in favor of voting periodically on the continuation of the checkoff program, and 92% of respondants would like to see all or at least a portion of beef checkoff dollars used to promote only U.S.-born-and-raised beef.
The survey, which was conducted by the Gallup Organization, was a result of a May 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision in a court case between the Cattlemen's Beef Board (CBB) and the Livestock Marketing Association (LMA). The survey interviewed 80,000 producers during October and November 2006. The full report is available at http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mpb/rp-beef.htm.
— compiled by Crystal Albers, associate editor, Angus Productions"
I don't think this whole RFID or NAIS is appropriate at all. If big buisness wants it too boost profits then go for it, but the gov't has no buisness to be in my backyard keeping tabs on my family's dairy cow, heifer, and hogs. The USDA uses deceptive language like "may" and has redrafted the NAIS docs to say "voluntary" but then our own County Ag agent said later cooperation will be mandatory...he sent official letters requesting little 4-her's to ID their bunnies and chickens...
If some cattlemen think it's necessary to chip their cattle to expand the beef market overseas then the responsibilty to do so should be upon those cattlemen.
I've been researching NAIS for about a year and the only people looking to gain are big buisness (like Monsanto and Cargill) who assised in the writing of the NAIS drafts. I'm sure that NAIS is going to squeeze out the little man (or what's left of him).
NAIS is not only going to affect the cattlemen, we've got Buffalo and pig farmers around here that afford the excessive gov't intrusion. The Amish won't chip their animals. They, like others, would rather shoot their animals than let the feds implant microchips on their animals. I deeply admire the Amish's self sufficiency and to take that away would be devastating to their communities.
The government's job isn't to further regulate it's citizens, and I don't won't to be taxed for more of my dollar to get shoved into big buisness' pocket. Don't get me wrong, I love the farmer, he is and has been one of the vital members of society. But public assistance is not going to solve the farmer's problems.
wow! that was a mouthful...but typed with sincerity and maybe w/a few grammatical errors.
I'm sure many of y'all have taken different stands and any other perspective would sure be great to hear
If some cattlemen think it's necessary to chip their cattle to expand the beef market overseas then the responsibilty to do so should be upon those cattlemen.
I've been researching NAIS for about a year and the only people looking to gain are big buisness (like Monsanto and Cargill) who assised in the writing of the NAIS drafts. I'm sure that NAIS is going to squeeze out the little man (or what's left of him).
NAIS is not only going to affect the cattlemen, we've got Buffalo and pig farmers around here that afford the excessive gov't intrusion. The Amish won't chip their animals. They, like others, would rather shoot their animals than let the feds implant microchips on their animals. I deeply admire the Amish's self sufficiency and to take that away would be devastating to their communities.
The government's job isn't to further regulate it's citizens, and I don't won't to be taxed for more of my dollar to get shoved into big buisness' pocket. Don't get me wrong, I love the farmer, he is and has been one of the vital members of society. But public assistance is not going to solve the farmer's problems.
wow! that was a mouthful...but typed with sincerity and maybe w/a few grammatical errors.
I'm sure many of y'all have taken different stands and any other perspective would sure be great to hear
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
I'm all for it. Big Brother can tap right into your Bank Accounts if needed.They already know a lot more than the average feller thinks they know. If it is done as a way of structuring Consumer confidence in our product, let them have at it. Before all is said and done I think we'll see the National I.D. program implemented on everything that has Feathers or Hide.
Of course I think we need to be compensated for our costs on Tags, and labor.
Of course I think we need to be compensated for our costs on Tags, and labor.
Earl Thigpen
Well-known member
I guess I'm ignorant or something. This is the first I've heard about the RF tags. NAIS I know about.
After reading the posts here I can see why there is an effort to be able to track animals. I don't like the heavy handness the gov't seems to want to use to inforce the requirement - not one little bit.
Ok, having said that I don't like the way it's being forced, let me open this up and invite all the crack pots to voice an opposing opinion.
Several time in the past I have read in this forum about producers feeding their animals chicken s___ and animal protein. Each and evry time I read about one of these folks I feel obligated to voice my opposition. The NAIS and RFID tag is DIRECTLY related to this practice. If we as cattle producers can't police our own industry then the government WILL!!!! And they are,it looks like. It has been scientifically proven that BSE originates with the practice of feeding animal protein to cattle yet some of us continue to do so - and openly admit they do- on this forum.
To steal one of CB's often used phrases "Put grass in front the cow and a bull behind her". I couldn't agree more. So I don't want to hear all the crying about the cost of RFID tags or NAIS when you all know why this is happening.
After reading the posts here I can see why there is an effort to be able to track animals. I don't like the heavy handness the gov't seems to want to use to inforce the requirement - not one little bit.
Ok, having said that I don't like the way it's being forced, let me open this up and invite all the crack pots to voice an opposing opinion.
Several time in the past I have read in this forum about producers feeding their animals chicken s___ and animal protein. Each and evry time I read about one of these folks I feel obligated to voice my opposition. The NAIS and RFID tag is DIRECTLY related to this practice. If we as cattle producers can't police our own industry then the government WILL!!!! And they are,it looks like. It has been scientifically proven that BSE originates with the practice of feeding animal protein to cattle yet some of us continue to do so - and openly admit they do- on this forum.
To steal one of CB's often used phrases "Put grass in front the cow and a bull behind her". I couldn't agree more. So I don't want to hear all the crying about the cost of RFID tags or NAIS when you all know why this is happening.
bward
Well-known member
Its not so bad for those of us that already tag and keep good records. My major gripe is that its an extra cost and any direct benefit does not come back to me. Producers have been asking that we get a kickback in the form of grading reports at slaughter but the packers are not willing to do that. That single thing would have us bending over backwards to Rfid tag them.
It is a lot of extra work for no direct benefit. Last year finished calves were receiving a 30 dollar a head bonus for having 'age verified' animals but that bonus will only turn into a discount for those that don't do the paper work.
When we age verify them, we have to go online to input the information and each calf has a stated birthday. For those of us that keep calving books, its just a matter of putting the birthdate in that goes with the assigned tag. But for those that don't tag at birth the entire calf crop is given the birth date of the first calf born of the season. Then when we are ready to sell such calves we have the fun of trying to get that info back to us in the form of birth certificates.
Inputing all that info online is another headache in itself. There are errors, and occasions that the system won't accept the files.... although lately they have made changes to make it somewhat more user friendly.
For those cattlemen that don't even own a computer that becomes a major headache as they have to rely on someone else to do it for them.
All in all its just another red tape step, another expense, another pain in the neck. .... Something that is good for the many but has no benefit to me.
It is a lot of extra work for no direct benefit. Last year finished calves were receiving a 30 dollar a head bonus for having 'age verified' animals but that bonus will only turn into a discount for those that don't do the paper work.
When we age verify them, we have to go online to input the information and each calf has a stated birthday. For those of us that keep calving books, its just a matter of putting the birthdate in that goes with the assigned tag. But for those that don't tag at birth the entire calf crop is given the birth date of the first calf born of the season. Then when we are ready to sell such calves we have the fun of trying to get that info back to us in the form of birth certificates.
Inputing all that info online is another headache in itself. There are errors, and occasions that the system won't accept the files.... although lately they have made changes to make it somewhat more user friendly.
For those cattlemen that don't even own a computer that becomes a major headache as they have to rely on someone else to do it for them.
All in all its just another red tape step, another expense, another pain in the neck. .... Something that is good for the many but has no benefit to me.
L Weir
Well-known member
The problem with the tags is if you have an animal that likes to scratch it's head and loses the tag in the process. Our state has required the farm show steers to have these tags and I know one steer lost three tags before ther show.
All points are well taken, but here is where I see the real problems.
1. The program is not needed and will solve absolutely nothing.
2. The total farm man hours will sky rocket to come into full compliance.
3. it's too dangerous for the workers. (see: who saw the cow kill the farmer)
And last but not least:
The last thing I want is a paper trail that leads back to me, should something unforeseen happen.
Remember along with profit also comes liability.
And I can see it now, some slick lawyer somewhere is rubbing his hands together while he is waiting for the next meat scare so he can try to take the farm.
If it were up to me, there is no way I would put this program on my agenda!
IMO, it's just more bureaucratic bull crap to create government jobs.
Case closed!
1. The program is not needed and will solve absolutely nothing.
2. The total farm man hours will sky rocket to come into full compliance.
3. it's too dangerous for the workers. (see: who saw the cow kill the farmer)
And last but not least:
The last thing I want is a paper trail that leads back to me, should something unforeseen happen.
Remember along with profit also comes liability.
And I can see it now, some slick lawyer somewhere is rubbing his hands together while he is waiting for the next meat scare so he can try to take the farm.
If it were up to me, there is no way I would put this program on my agenda!
IMO, it's just more bureaucratic bull crap to create government jobs.
Case closed!
Think about this for a minute.
You got something to hide?
Just as it could help to track cattle back to your place............
it could also help to track cattle AWAY from your place.
It's coming. Don't get left behind. ;-)
Nope! Got nothing to hide. But I darn sure don't want to make it easy for um.
You only need to talk to some tobacco farmers to know what I am talking about. Ask them why they no longer grow tobacco.
Not to mention anyone who ever sold anything with asbestos in or on it.
I just don't want to be caught in the middle while some blood sucker is looking for deep pockets to get into!!
FYI, as far as I know, all the meat scares in the US have been traced back to the meat packers, not the farms, so why do we need this program?
Give me your best reason why you think this program is needed.
And please don't give me $$profit$$ because the additional cost of tags and man hours will more then eat that up.
PS: If you are one of the fools who goes out alone in a field to tag newborns, please let me know, because I would like to take out some life insurance on you, with me being the beneficiary.
Not only do I tag them. I weigh them also. :lol:
McDonalds will demand it. Burger King will demand it. Chris Ruth will demand it. Etc, etc, etc.
It's not about getting a premium for doing it. It's about getting paid for them at all.......................if you DON'T do it.
You won't like it when you get a check from the dog food company for your calves.....
Mike, I hear what you’re saying, and agree, but I still don’t see a legitimate reason for it.
Sounds to me like you are talking about government blackmail. Do it or else!
(FYI, we are already registered.)
What good are all these records going to do The Golden Arch Steakhouse?
Their going to get the same beef, with or without all the paperwork!
And they already get a bill of sale/invoice, so they already know where it came from.
I just don’t get it!
SL
Sounds to me like you are talking about government blackmail. Do it or else!
(FYI, we are already registered.)
What good are all these records going to do The Golden Arch Steakhouse?
Their going to get the same beef, with or without all the paperwork!
And they already get a bill of sale/invoice, so they already know where it came from.
I just don’t get it!
SL
Sir Loin":1y58wefu said:
Japan will only buy Age/Process Verified beef from us at present. Both Canada and Australia use this system.
We must keep up with the competition or we'll be sucking hind teat.
I don't necessarily want to see it either, even though I'm in full compliance at present, but it's coming and we can't stop it.
The customer is always right. ;-)
