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iowahawkeyes

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AnnBledsoe":3lqu8gx3 said:
There is nothing at all wrong with such a program as a producer-driven, VOLUNTARY program, that BENEFITS the producer. There is a LOT wrong with such a program as a MANDATORY program. As a mandatory program it becomes a license to own animals -- a license to produce your own food. The government already has their hands too deep into our pockets.

If the folks that want to export want to participate, fine and dandy, but what about those of us who have no interest whatsoever in exporting? Our cattle will be sold and eaten within a very small radius of where they are born and raised. We have no need for a government source verification program -- our buyers have the best source verification they could have, they know the producer personally and know exactly where their meat came from.

All the money being spent by the USDA to push this program though would be much better spent tightening security at our borders and tracking the imported animals.
Did you hear about the poor fellow in South Dakota who in good faith bought a group of calves at a saleyard, when he went to sell those same calves, he found himself being denied payment for those calves -- they were from Canada, and weren't supposed to have been sold through a saleyard to begin with.
http://www.farmandranchguide.com/articles/2007/01/12/ag_news/livestock_news/live09.txt

Personally, I just can't believe that such an independant group as the cattle producers are allowing themselves to be led like sheep into a program that will eventually destroy their way of life.
Ann B

An outbreak of FMD wouldn't do that at all? Especially if you couldn't track down producers and where the animals are at. I love my cows and want to keep them.
 

AnnBledsoe

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Since FMD isn't fatal to cattle and isn't transmissible to people, is basically an economic issue since the cattle recover in a few weeks, wouldn't it make more sense to VACCINATE?

Disease concerns are a smoke screen -- if they were worried about disease, they wouldn't allow OUR chickens to be shipped to CHINA for processing, then ship them back to the grocery stores! If they were worried about disease they wouldn't have opened up the import of raw hog meat from Mexico. If they were worried about disease, then when they depopulated the Henshaw farm, they wouldn't have allowed blood to pour all over the roads.

This is about control, nothing more. Control the food and you control the people.

I love my cows too -- my Mini Jerseys would fall under the heading of "Pet" to most cattle producers. Which is why I am so adamently against this kill everything mentality -- and it's one of the major reasons I'm moving out of Florida. My rare breed pet cows will be slaughtered if one of these 10,000 cow dairies ends up with something -- and I am within the 10 kilometer/6 mile kill radius of five 10,000 cow dairies.

All you have to do is look at just who's brainchild this whole thing is -- NIAA, National Institute for Animal Agriculture, who's members include Monsanto, Cargill, and DIGITAL ANGEL. Follow the money. There is no money to made by these mega corporations from heritage and rare breeds, they want the livestock world to eventually be comprised of animals that carry their patented genes and eat their GM crops.
And I refuse to consume any GM foods -- or feed them to my family or animals. These mega corporations have now made it to where there is no way to know if you're consuming GM crops, they've gotten a lot of them deregulated. Basically, the American public is a giant experiment, with USDA and FDA blessing, in what happens to people who are forced to consume this garbage. The rates of auto-immune diseases are through the roof -- coincidence? I don't think so.
USDA and FDA were supposed to be the watchdogs protecting the public, instead they've fallen into bed with those that the public needs to be protected from.

Ann B
 

novatech

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AnnBledsoe":x8pimubs said:
Since FMD isn't fatal to cattle and isn't transmissible to people, is basically an economic issue since the cattle recover in a few weeks, wouldn't it make more sense to VACCINATE?

Disease concerns are a smoke screen -- if they were worried about disease, they wouldn't allow OUR chickens to be shipped to CHINA for processing, then ship them back to the grocery stores! If they were worried about disease they wouldn't have opened up the import of raw hog meat from Mexico. If they were worried about disease, then when they depopulated the Henshaw farm, they wouldn't have allowed blood to pour all over the roads.

This is about control, nothing more. Control the food and you control the people.

I love my cows too -- my Mini Jerseys would fall under the heading of "Pet" to most cattle producers. Which is why I am so adamently against this kill everything mentality -- and it's one of the major reasons I'm moving out of Florida. My rare breed pet cows will be slaughtered if one of these 10,000 cow dairies ends up with something -- and I am within the 10 kilometer/6 mile kill radius of five 10,000 cow dairies.

All you have to do is look at just who's brainchild this whole thing is -- NIAA, National Institute for Animal Agriculture, who's members include Monsanto, Cargill, and DIGITAL ANGEL. Follow the money. There is no money to made by these mega corporations from heritage and rare breeds, they want the livestock world to eventually be comprised of animals that carry their patented genes and eat their GM crops.
And I refuse to consume any GM foods -- or feed them to my family or animals. These mega corporations have now made it to where there is no way to know if you're consuming GM crops, they've gotten a lot of them deregulated. Basically, the American public is a giant experiment, with USDA and FDA blessing, in what happens to people who are forced to consume this garbage. The rates of auto-immune diseases are through the roof -- coincidence? I don't think so.
USDA and FDA were supposed to be the watchdogs protecting the public, instead they've fallen into bed with those that the public needs to be protected from.

Ann B

Thank You :D :D :D

Money and control, thats what it is all about.
Sad part is we let them do it, just a little bit at a time.
So who is working for who?
 

AngusLimoX

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There must not be much in common with our program and what they are proposing down there.

All's we have to do is tag them before they leave the farm. Then herd of origin is established.

Auction barns and abbatoirs require them.

Other than that once they leave my place I have no responsibilities other than making sure they got a tag before they head down the road. No reporting or crap like that.

I don't want to make this a Canada / US finger pointing thing, not why I posted. But we have gone through BSE and had our markets severly restricted. Having all of those animals Id'd, herdmates id'd etc, sometimes within hours - that sure looked good on us. Our consumers thought so, as did watchers on in the world.

I say this as a friend to fellow cattlemen - don't get too far behind. Change is coming at a rate we cannot anticipate. And it is all about environment, food safety, ecological agriculture, sustainability, traceability - you know all the catch words. Well those catch words are going to drive the economy and steer governments.

This is my last post on this thread, so I will end it with this.
Knowing when people are trying to do something for you , and when they are trying to do something to you is important. Picking your fights, choosing your battlegrounds. Making the tagging of cattle mandatory and setting up the administration to make it work is something our government did for us, not to us. ( For once! ).

ALX
 

MikeC

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AngusLimoX":1g1764ls said:
There must not be much in common with our program and what they are proposing down there.

All's we have to do is tag them before they leave the farm. Then herd of origin is established.

Auction barns and abbatoirs require them.

Other than that once they leave my place I have no responsibilities other than making sure they got a tag before they head down the road. No reporting or crap like that.

I don't want to make this a Canada / US finger pointing thing, not why I posted. But we have gone through BSE and had our markets severly restricted. Having all of those animals Id'd, herdmates id'd etc, sometimes within hours - that sure looked good on us. Our consumers thought so, as did watchers on in the world.

I say this as a friend to fellow cattlemen - don't get too far behind. Change is coming at a rate we cannot anticipate. And it is all about environment, food safety, ecological agriculture, sustainability, traceability - you know all the catch words. Well those catch words are going to drive the economy and steer governments.

This is my last post on this thread, so I will end it with this.
Knowing when people are trying to do something for you , and when they are trying to do something to you is important. Picking your fights, choosing your battlegrounds. Making the tagging of cattle mandatory and setting up the administration to make it work is something our government did for us, not to us. ( For once! ).

ALX

That's all there is to it in the USDA proposed program here too.

No need to run out and tag each calf immediately. :roll:

Just record the date of the first calf and the last one and put the rest in between.

Some folks like to make a mountain out of a molehill. :shock:
 

Rustler9

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To protect and keep a good 25% of my Income that comes from Cattle, I'll glady put a tag in a Ear. We tag anyway... I say comply or go into another business. It's called compliance, there's codes and Compliances in about all industy. I call it a small inconveinience, but a necessary one. I'm with you MikeC. I got nothing to hide.

I most definitely have nothing to hide. I register and brand every animal on my place, well I'll take that back. We sell a few calves as ropers or to a specialty beef market if they don't cut it as registered seed stock. We're already identifying our cattle, Big Brother can keep his a$$ out of my business as far as I'm concerned. He already knows more than he needs to. As I've said before, I may have to do it one day but I certainly won't volunteer to do it. I think alot of you who have so eagerly jumped up and kissed his a$$ will one day wish you hadn't been so quick to pucker up. Did anyone read the article I posted from Darol Dickinson about the missing number on the transfer certificate? Is this really about helping us control disease or is it about controling us? Once this is in place, it won't go away. It doesn't matter if you wake up and decide what a stupid and useless thing this is-once it's here, it's here to stay.
 

maesy

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I'm gonna have to agreee w/Sir Loin I don't think anybody has presented a real good reason for NAIS...besides compliance...

I read somewhere in a previous message about pseudorabies in hogs which reminded me of a case here in Virginia when the big an all knowing responsible gov't came in an slaughtered an entire herd because some of the hogs might've been infected. No tests were verified, the owners were never allowed to conduct thier own tests, and not a hog was quarantined-the government just went in and totally wiped out the hogs, for no real reason. The family had to listen to their livelihood be shot down on their property.

a bit of additional info - A pig with psuedorabies will abort the fetal piglets..the owners had dozens of piglets running around...how could there be a massive outbreak of psuedorabies if there were piglets? I don't know about yall but the USDA don't seem to know much about this stuff, and for pete's sake they can't even keep spinach safe...how can they keep beef safe?

unintended consequences:

- the large companies will absorb the costs of NAIS and premise ID and smaller producers won't; big companies will dominate the market and there will be consolidation in the food market. Grain farmers who raise a few cattle a year won't be able to absorb the costs either

- People and Parents won't deal w/government red tape. Think of all the kids who will lose an opportunity in 4-h or to ride the old neighbors pony (NAIS is coming for your horses and hogs too).

- Family farms will be continue to be sold and developed because of the high costs of ID along with the other costs of fuel and taxes.


The Government has used the guise of preventing bioterrorism to promote NAIS, but think of the possiblities presented to a enemy hacker...all of the nation's agricultural info on a database...

my email is [email protected] I've got a powerpoint and more links concerning NAIS and the RFID programs

http://farmandranchfreedom.org/content/
http://www.freetofarm.com/
 

dun

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Since the federal implementation of NAIS is a dead subject, at least for now, I don;t understand what all the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth is all about.

dun
 

AnnBledsoe

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dun":28gs7b4b said:
Since the federal implementation of NAIS is a dead subject, at least for now, I don;t understand what all the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth is all about.

dun

But Dun, that's just it, it's NOT a dead subject -- yes, they're saying that the program will remain voluntary at the Federal level, but at the same time they're pouring money into the states for mandatory state programs. Heck, some Florida feed stores (Deland) are getting paid by the USDA for every premise they sign up. And they're accessing brand records, breed association records, feed store records, even magazine subscriptions, and signing folks up without their consent.

This program will be just as voluntary as Social Security -- which is also voluntary at the Federal level.
The Feds have their own definition of "voluntary", and it's not the one in Websters.

Ann B
 

Victoria

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AngusLimoX":94wtcweu said:
There must not be much in common with our program and what they are proposing down there.

All's we have to do is tag them before they leave the farm. Then herd of origin is established.

Auction barns and abbatoirs require them.

Other than that once they leave my place I have no responsibilities other than making sure they got a tag before they head down the road. No reporting or crap like that.

I don't want to make this a Canada / US finger pointing thing, not why I posted. But we have gone through BSE and had our markets severly restricted. Having all of those animals Id'd, herdmates id'd etc, sometimes within hours - that sure looked good on us. Our consumers thought so, as did watchers on in the world.

I say this as a friend to fellow cattlemen - don't get too far behind. Change is coming at a rate we cannot anticipate. And it is all about environment, food safety, ecological agriculture, sustainability, traceability - you know all the catch words. Well those catch words are going to drive the economy and steer governments.

This is my last post on this thread, so I will end it with this.
Knowing when people are trying to do something for you , and when they are trying to do something to you is important. Picking your fights, choosing your battlegrounds. Making the tagging of cattle mandatory and setting up the administration to make it work is something our government did for us, not to us. ( For once! ).

ALX

Great post.
 

kenojoe

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Here in Kentucky they are trying to force thier own version of NAIS through. I have all 3 sections of the amendment in front of me. Sect. one states that all animals shall have a CVI for any movement. Certified Vet. Inspection- good for 30 days. All animals shall have paperwork verifying shot records,shots that are to be administered by a Vet. . Do you have a Vet. give all of your shots? Any trailer that is used to transport a sick animal (communicable disease) shall be cleaned and disinfected under the eye of a state inspector. Does that include pink eye? These are just a few of the things in the bill which can be found on the KY Dept of Agriculture site, beware its hard to find. What promise do I have that some animal rights group won't get my info using the Freedom Of Info Act and pay me a visit during the night. Can't happen? Ask the handful of chicken producers in Western KY that lost thousands of birds to myterious fires (later linked to Earth Liberation Front). I will fight this until the bitter end. I am not ready to bend over and just take it!
 

novatech

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Most people don,t realize what is happening until the stun gun is resting between their eyes.
As far as makeing a mountain out of a molehill. I can kick over a mole hill. Kinda tough moveing that mountain.
 

maesy

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Ann B and the guy from Kentucky are right...the feds are trying to force this crap on us all. The federal gov't is pouring money into state programs and universities, yesterday our electric coop had the front and back covers PLASTERED in a NAIS brochure

Viginia Polytechnic University has an incredible Ag program(in fact it was my school of choice) BUT most of Ag grads are taught to just do whatever the state tell them and keep that money flowing to VA via subsidies, earmarks for NAIS and a bunch more of crap. The ag agents are pressured into pushing all these govt regulations. All but one of my extension agents was capable of thinkin on his own two feet about the NAIS and premise ID.

and i would hesitate to use the word "dead", I never saw a dead bill get so much federal funding...maryland is said to have its program implemented by like 2009, They said by 2007 it'll be in Virginia, but it ain't here yet...
 

AngusLimoX

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Has there been a Conspiracy Theory ( Mel Gibson ) marathon down there lately?

OK, from the sounds of this "Men in Black"!

Hey Novatech - you a receiver or a giver of the stun gun - you profess knowledge.
 

frenchie

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AnnBledsoe":ag1g3p44 said:
Did you hear about the poor fellow in South Dakota who in good faith bought a group of calves at a saleyard, when he went to sell those same calves, he found himself being denied payment for those calves -- they were from Canada, and weren't supposed to have been sold through a saleyard to begin with.
http://www.farmandranchguide.com/articles/2007/01/12/ag_news/livestock_news/live09.txt



Ann B

Yeah I heard all about it.Sounds terrible don,t it .Here is an update


Canada Not to Blame for Cattle Mix-Up (02/02/07 07:00)

NASHVILLE (DTN) - Canada did not violate any trade restrictions in a mix-up of cattle last November that led a livestock group to call for an investigation, a top veterinarian for USDA said Thursday.

An investigation was launched by USDA after the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association questioned why a packer refused to pay a producer for cattle with a Canadian tag, claiming the producer was not aware he had bought Canadian cattle at a sale barn.

Canadian feeder cattle are not allowed for import or sale at a stockyards. Cattle are only allowed to go to a feedlot then directly to a meatpacking plant.

The controversy flared when officials from Swift & Co. in Grand Island, Neb., told a South Dakota cattle producer some of his cattle had to be condemned and could not be sold because he had improperly co-mingled undocumented Canadian cattle in his shipment to the plant. The stockgrowers group, which opposes Canadian imports, denounced the situation.

.John Clifford, chief veterinarian with the USDA Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, told members of the National Cattlemen's Beef Association working group for Canada-U.S. trade that Swift had actually imported the cattle and then they were improperly co-mingled with U.S. cattle in the pens at the packing plant. Clifford said USDA officials had the health certificates from Canada and the ear tags showing the animals were properly imported.

The slaughter cattle were delivered Nov. 28 to the packing plant and processed Nov. 29. That same day was when the South Dakota cattle feeder also had his cattle delivered to Swift. Earlier this week, Swift acknowledged the mistake and paid the producer for his cattle.

USDA "was satisfied those tags were from cattle legally exported from Canada to the packing plant," said John Masswohl of the Canadian Cattlemens' Association.

.The cattle from Canada were able to be tracked because of the animal identification system in that country, Masswohl said. .


Such incidences, as minor as they may seem, are a major complication for Canadian cattlemen trying to expand trade of live cattle to breeding cattle and older cull animals born after March 1, 1999. Masswohl and other officials with the Canadian Cattlemens' Association are at the NCBA convention to alleviate fears over the issue.

"We're talking about how people trade and what that means for the producers," Masswohl said. Older Canadian cattle have been banned from the U.S. since the first case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in that country in May 2003.

Cattle producers in northern states are worried about price impacts on the cow market and what happens if there is another positive case of BSE from a Canadian animal on U.S. soil.

"Nobody can guarantee that's not going to happen," Masswohl said. "We have assumed all along there are going to be more cases."

Still, the risk of contaminated beef in the food supply is minimal and the safeguards are strong, Masswohl said.

For more News Headlines, Commodity Quotes, Market Reports, Market Analysis, Auction Sales and more, please visit http://www.teamauctionsales.com.
 

MikeC

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Frenchie, Don't scare these naysayers like that.

They might actually start thinking ID has a purpose! :lol:
 

MikeC

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maesy":1ox0umy7 said:
and that purpose is??

Tracking animals.

Or did you not know that many of our trading partners are requiring it from us to import our beef?

And did you not know that the calculations from loss of exports cost each rancher in the USA $175 per calf in loss of those exports in just 2004 alone?

And did you not know that an ID system could possibly protect you from liability in a disease outbreak?
 

preston39

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From DRovers;

"USDA releases draft NAIS documents, requests proposals
The U.S. Department of Agriculture last week announced the availability of three National Animal Identification System documents for review and public comment. The documents include a Draft User Guide, a Program Standards and Technical Reference document and technical specifications for animal tracking databases. In related news, the agency also announced a request for proposals from nonprofit livestock and poultry industry organizations to enter into cooperative agreements for development of the NAIS. A primary goal of these agreements is to increase participation in premises registration. "Making sure we have what amounts to an emergency contact list is the backbone of an emergency response system," says Bruce Knight, undersecretary of USDA’s marketing and regulatory programs. "We want this system to be there for producers when and if an animal health emergency arises." USDA will make up to $6 million available for the cooperative agreements, subject to the availability of funding. For more on both announcements, follow this link.
Although they would argue otherwise, USDA officials are sending mixed signals regarding the National Animal Identification System. In November, USDA announced that NAIS would be voluntary. And now USDA is allowing producers to un-register their premises. But last week they announced three NAIS documents for public comment, and indicated a primary goal was to increase participation in premises registration.

Confused? Well you're not confused if you're a cattle producer in Michigan. Michigan producers must operate under the rules of Michigan's mandatory electronic animal identification system, which means that all cattle must be identified with an electronic ID tag by March 1. The new law is in support of Michigan's Bovine Tuberculosis Eradication Program. Michigan officials say the use of RFID tags decreases the time and money required to trace animal movement. That’s a refreshingly simple statement that could also apply to the need for a national program. — Greg Henderson, Drovers editor "
 

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