reseeding hay land ideas needed?

[js2743]

i have a farm that i just took over when my dad passed away and the hay fields have been in orchard grass for im guessing some of it 30 years or longer and im thinking it needs to be reseeded with new seed.
needing your ideas how to go about this i have a few ideas 1st. one im thinking about seeding it and discing 2nd. thought about when running fertilizer to mix in some seed and then disc but not sure.

any one have any ideas how this could best be done with the least amount of work, i know my father and grandfather would have turned it with a plow and went that way but im hoping to stay away from that route.
i will be going back with orchard grass and red clover im thinking.

so any ideas that has worked for others, im willing to listen or i guess read lol. thanks

 

[dun]

Before doing anything do a soil sample and lime and fertilize to the recommendations. Graze or clip it as short as possible and no-till orchard grass. If you disturb the soil you'll be stirring up more weed seed. You may be able to no-till clover at the same time as the OG depending on the seed boxes on the drill. If you are going to plant clover right away, stay away from using nitrogen if you can. The nitrogen will stimulate the OG (and weeds) and will shade the clover too much. If you have a NRCS office nearby, talk to their grassland person or check with your local university extension office.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

js2743-

The advice that dun just gave you is the ULTIMATE and ABSOLUTELY PERFECT information that anyone could give you. Forget doing anything just because it is cheaper or less work. If you are going to renovate a hay field that has been deteriorating for 30 years or more, do WHATEVER you need to do, and don't skimp on doing it right - and dun's advice is RIGHT!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hayfields are just like women you have to give them lots of attention or they will up and leave you.

 

[js2743]

thanks for the help I'm calling the extension service in the morning to check on getting some samples taken and go from there. there's not many weeds just a lot of weird grass i have no idea what it is and i know it can be better if reseeded. i can remember when there was 5 t0 6 thousand bales a year put up off this place and it just keeps dropping. this year with the late freeze and then the worst drought that's ever hit this area i got 35 4x5 round bales and its a struggle to make it through the winter now, just happen i had about that many left over from last year, or i would be out of hay and cows lol.

 

[dun]

thanks for the help I'm calling the extension service in the morning to check on getting some samples taken and go from there. there's not many weeds just a lot of weird grass i have no idea what it is and i know it can be better if reseeded. i can remember when there was 5 t0 6 thousand bales a year put up off this place and it just keeps dropping. this year with the late freeze and then the worst drought that's ever hit this area i got 35 4x5 round bales and its a struggle to make it through the winter now, just happen i had about that many left over from last year, or i would be out of hay and cows lol.

A couple of things come to mind. First of all, OG is really crappy at resistance in drought. Second, when was a soil sample last taken? Pulling off hay and not replacing those nutrients can really drag a hay field down in a hurry.
The promary grass that took over our OG hay fields was crabgrass. There are a few other things thta popped up, like perenniel rye and bluegrass, but almost eveything was choked out by the crabgrass. If that's what you have you may have to burn the field, or grass the snot out out of it to get it thin enough that your cool season grasses can get a foothold and hopefully keep the warm season grasses like crabgrass iunder control

 

[DOC HARRIS]

As a general run-of-the-mill procedure, I don't recommend 'burning' a field, but in this particular case I think that it is appropriate! This quickly eliminates many undesirable grasses, weeds and other noxious plants AND their seeds which you will have to battle in the future anyway if you don't get rid of them now. Get a soil test over the entire field before you burn anything, and KNOW what the SOIL needs - then burn and apply the Lime and fertilizer - no-till smoothly, and don't skimp on GOOD seed replacement. Use correct management procedures during the first year, and you should have a valuable hay- producing field to be of benefit to you!

DOC HARRIS

 

[alabama]

As a general run-of-the-mill procedure, I don't recommend 'burning' a field, but in this particular case I think that it is appropriate! This quickly eliminates many undesirable grasses, weeds and other noxious plants AND their seeds which you will have to battle in the future anyway if you don't get rid of them now. Gete a soil test over the entire field before you burn anything, and KNOW what the SOIL needs - then burn and apply the Lime and fertilizer - no-till smoothly, and don't skimp on GOOD seed replacement. Use correct management procedures during the first year, and you should have a valuable hay- producing field to be of benefit to you!

DOC HARRIS

Doc and Don are telling you right and I live much further south than y'all do, but if you have a lot of grass that you don't want in your new hay field, you may consider spraying it with Round-Up in late spring and start anew.. However I would ask the county man first.

 

[john250]

Hayfields are just like women you have to give them lots of attention or they will up and leave you.

And getting them back will cost LOTS of money. And time.

 

[simangus23]

Hey JS I am not sure our pards from Colorado understand the soil conditions of SW VA. They mean well but they dont have a clue to what Hill Top Virginia Clay soils are all about. Chances are these fields have quite a bit of compaction going on there these past 30 some odd years. No-till won't cut it in SW VA until you bust the hardpan like dad and grandad woulda done. Run a soil sample always, apply nutrients as recommended, and bust the hardpan (just not with the old mouldboard Gramps had) Disk it and disk in some Lime while you are at it and prepare a good seedbed and you can use someting like a Brillion to get it done. Aitchinson (NZ) has a great drill for SW VA soils if you want to use minimum till. Also the Aerway double will do a fine job on compacted soils in VA. Good Luck with your hay ground..

Sorry Dun and Doc your info was worthless for a gent from SW VA

Simangus

 

[dun]

Hey JS I am not sure our pards from Colorado understand the soil conditions of SW VA. They mean well but they dont have a clue to what Hill Top Virginia Clay soils are all about. Chances are these fields have quite a bit of compaction going on there these past 30 some odd years. No-till won't cut it in SW VA until you bust the hardpan like dad and grandad woulda done. Run a soil sample always, apply nutrients as recommended, and bust the hardpan (just not with the old mouldboard Gramps had) Disk it and disk in some Lime while you are at it and prepare a good seedbed and you can use someting like a Brillion to get it done. Aitchinson (NZ) has a great drill for SW VA soils if you want to use minimum till. Also the Aerway double will do a fine job on compacted soils in VA. Good Luck with your hay ground..

Sorry Dun and Doc your info was worthless for a gent from SW VA

Simangus

You need to take a look at what passes for soil here. Heavy red clay over an inch or 2 at best of limestone or rock. If grass can grow in it, a good no-till drill can seed it.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hey JS I am not sure our pards from Colorado understand the soil conditions of SW VA. They mean well but they dont have a clue to what Hill Top Virginia Clay soils are all about. Chances are these fields have quite a bit of compaction going on there these past 30 some odd years. No-till won't cut it in SW VA until you bust the hardpan like dad and grandad woulda done. Run a soil sample always, apply nutrients as recommended, and bust the hardpan (just not with the old mouldboard Gramps had) Disk it and disk in some Lime while you are at it and prepare a good seedbed and you can use someting like a Brillion to get it done. Aitchinson (NZ) has a great drill for SW VA soils if you want to use minimum till. Also the Aerway double will do a fine job on compacted soils in VA. Good Luck with your hay ground..

Sorry Dun and Doc your info was worthless for a gent from SW VA

Simangus

You need to take a look at what passes for soil here. Heavy red clay over an inch or 2 at best of limestone or rock. If grass can grow in it, a good no-till drill can seed it.

Dun I bet my clay is tougher than yours with the pretty white rocks, mine has iron ore.
I am sure if anyone on this board does it is Dun, thats all I have to say about that.

 

[dun]

Hey JS I am not sure our pards from Colorado understand the soil conditions of SW VA. They mean well but they dont have a clue to what Hill Top Virginia Clay soils are all about. Chances are these fields have quite a bit of compaction going on there these past 30 some odd years. No-till won't cut it in SW VA until you bust the hardpan like dad and grandad woulda done. Run a soil sample always, apply nutrients as recommended, and bust the hardpan (just not with the old mouldboard Gramps had) Disk it and disk in some Lime while you are at it and prepare a good seedbed and you can use someting like a Brillion to get it done. Aitchinson (NZ) has a great drill for SW VA soils if you want to use minimum till. Also the Aerway double will do a fine job on compacted soils in VA. Good Luck with your hay ground..

Sorry Dun and Doc your info was worthless for a gent from SW VA

Simangus

You need to take a look at what passes for soil here. Heavy red clay over an inch or 2 at best of limestone or rock. If grass can grow in it, a good no-till drill can seed it.

Dun I bet my clay is tougher than yours with the pretty white rocks, mine has iron ore.
I am sure if anyone on this board does it is Dun, thats all I have to say about that.

I frequently get the question form visitors, "why did they just pour concrete all over the place?" The answer is, it ain't concrete, it's the limestone exposed.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

It has been my experience with five different States in the USA that "Local Knowledge" takes precedence over everything else! The details from State to State, or County to County or even Field to Field differs so much sometimes that different protocols must be employed for optimum success. The mechanism in preparing the seedbed may differ considerably, and the amount of nutrients will absolutely change from location to location, but the basic PRINCIPALS remain essentially the same - provide the soil with exactly what that particular soil requires, and do so with whatever methods are best at that location.

simangus23 - I remember your soil conditions a little bit from several years ago! As with most soil conditions, they are all unique to their locale. I recommend that a Rancher or Farmer contact their local experts and go by "Local Knowledge."

Just DO IT RIGHT!

DOC HARRIS