Regulations killing business

[Anonymous]

You can go to any of the NMFS public hearings and after the meetings adjourn for the day, the council members are at the bar drinking with a couple of young floozies from the Pew foundation. I've seen them eating supper together, lucky them, but normally it doesn't work out so good for the fishermen.
We have created a couple of non profit organizations to represent the commercial fishing industry. It's worked out great for everyone besides the taxpayers, they are now footing all our legal bills. We have NMFS back peddling on the King Mackerel, Red snapper TAC. Our quotas increased by a third, hopefully change is finally coming to our industry.

Red Snapper is a perfect example of what I'm saying. Absolutely no regulating is needed for snapper. NONE. If any Tom, Dick or Harry with a boat could legally go offshore, catch snapper and sell them too, there would be such a glut on snapper that the public could eat it cheaper than beans. Then all these inshore, man made artificial reefs would get fished out within a year. The recreational snapper fishing fad would diminish somewhat. Then a commercial man, with some knowledge and drive could go offshore to 40 or 50 fathom and catch enough in winter when no one else want to fight it, and he could make a good living. NO REGULATIONS needed.

 

[True Grit Farms]

You can go to any of the NMFS public hearings and after the meetings adjourn for the day, the council members are at the bar drinking with a couple of young floozies from the Pew foundation. I've seen them eating supper together, lucky them, but normally it doesn't work out so good for the fishermen.

We took oral comment with a court reporter on duty. We also took written comment. All comments required a written published response in the Federal Register. We were not permitted to fraternize with anyone holding an interest in our final rules.

I'll take your word for it cause I don't know anything about how the EPA works. I do know how the NMFS works. I use to attend every meeting and all the work shops, I was even on the advisory board. I've wasted a lot of time and money fighting for MY perceived rights through the years. Now I spend 5% of my yearly income fighting NMFS through the east coast fishermen's defense fund. The stress was killing me, and I was going to pass it along if I didn't quit.

 

[True Grit Farms]

You can go to any of the NMFS public hearings and after the meetings adjourn for the day, the council members are at the bar drinking with a couple of young floozies from the Pew foundation. I've seen them eating supper together, lucky them, but normally it doesn't work out so good for the fishermen.
We have created a couple of non profit organizations to represent the commercial fishing industry. It's worked out great for everyone besides the taxpayers, they are now footing all our legal bills. We have NMFS back peddling on the King Mackerel, Red snapper TAC. Our quotas increased by a third, hopefully change is finally coming to our industry.

Red Snapper is a perfect example of what I'm saying. Absolutely no regulating is needed for snapper. NONE. If any Tom, Dick or Harry with a boat could legally go offshore, catch snapper and sell them too, there would be such a glut on snapper that the public could eat it cheaper than beans. Then all these inshore, man made artificial reefs would get fished out within a year. The recreational snapper fishing fad would diminish somewhat. Then a commercial man, with some knowledge and drive could go offshore to 40 or 50 fathom and catch enough in winter when no one else want to fight it, and he could make a good living. NO REGULATIONS needed.

It worked that way for years, till the government got involved to help us. I got a federal grant to shark fish in 1979, now the same sharks are on a 200 year recovery plan. NMFS is also back tracking on their scientific data on Sandbar sharks, we'll see how it all works out, it's starting to get interesting.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

We wouldn't need gov. regulations if we had a more free market, and people were smart enough, and willing enough to stand up to companies that were doing things, like dumping sewage, and the like.
But everyone just wants stuff cheap, and easy. Why do you thing imports from China are so large? The stuff from China is cheap and easy to get.

Not sure I'm following. If there were no laws or regs on the books, what basis would people have to stand up against, for example, a company dumping hazardous waste? Do you think a company would just willingly say Sorry and stop? How could they, if their competitors are also polluting? You must have a much more favorable view of human nature than I do...

To CB: There were originally no environmental laws (and therefore no regs). The regs are the vehicle by which the laws are carried out. Do you really want a bunch of congress critters sitting around writing the regs themselves? (Actually, these days the industries themselves pretty much write the regs, and that's sadly true regardless of which party's in power).

I wouldn't expect you to be able to fathom the idea of a true free market, nor 90% of the this countries citizen.



And that's the way the government wants it to stay...a content, fat pig, is a happy fat pig.

 

[boondocks]

Sim Ang, you didn't answer my question, but simply resorted to an old canard that a "true" free market will solve everything from bunions to how-do-I-always-end-up-with-single-socks. (Just like the socialists that think a "true" socialist system will solves all ills from, well, you know what to you know what). I think most people realize that we need to balance the rights and obligations of capital and labor, eg.

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?
And see, e.g. https://www.finra.org/industry/finra-rulemaking-process

 

[True Grit Farms]

Sim Ang, you didn't answer my question, but simply resorted to an old canard that a "true" free market will solve everything from bunions to how-do-I-always-end-up-with-single-socks. (Just like the socialists that think a "true" socialist system will solves all ills from, well, you know what to you know what). I think most people realize that we need to balance the rights and obligations of capital and labor, eg.

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?
And see, e.g. https://www.finra.org/industry/finra-rulemaking-process

Someone has to pay for slick willie's and barry's jet set lifestyle, their wemens eat like pigs.

 

[boondocks]

Sim Ang, you didn't answer my question, but simply resorted to an old canard that a "true" free market will solve everything from bunions to how-do-I-always-end-up-with-single-socks. (Just like the socialists that think a "true" socialist system will solves all ills from, well, you know what to you know what). I think most people realize that we need to balance the rights and obligations of capital and labor, eg.

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?
And see, e.g. https://www.finra.org/industry/finra-rulemaking-process

Someone has to pay for slick willie's and barry's jet set lifestyle, their wemens eat like pigs.

Who's the oinker? http://i.imgur.com/VT3oprI.jpg
or:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/pho ... e-41274612

 

[Bright Raven]

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?

Federal Environmental Statutes/Laws are passed by a legislative body.  I will agree that legislators are lobbied but not just by industry.   Environmental interests have extremely powerful lobbies.  In fact, environmental groups influence environmental law more than industry.

This discussion began when Boondocks stated that "industries write regulations".

Federal Regulations/Rules are written by the agency that is designated in the legislative Statute/Act to promulgate the rules to implement the statute.

You can believe the moon is made of green cheese but it is an extremely monitored process subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

Rules/Regulations are written by a promulgation committee/council of agency and contract experts.  The agency that promulgates the Rules/Regulations is set forth by Congress in the Law/Statutes/Act passed by a legislative body.

The proposed rules are written and published in the Federal Register for public comment.  The comments are considered by the committee/council.  Changes are made to the proposed Rules/Regulations and they are published as Final Rules in the Federal Register.   With a date as to when they become effective.

I have served on a promulgation committee.  I can tell you environmental groups submit 20 times more comments than industry does.  I can tell you in the case of environmental law, the influence of environmental interests outweighs that of industry.   Believe whatever you desire!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?

Federal Environmental Statutes/Laws are passed by a legislative body.  I will agree that legislators are lobbied but not just by industry.   Environmental interests have extremely powerful lobbies.  In fact, environmental groups influence environmental law more than industry.

This discussion began when Boondocks stated that "industries write regulations".

Federal Regulations/Rules are written by the agency that is designated in the legislative Statute/Act to promulgate the rules to implement the statute.

You can believe the moon is made of green cheese but it is an extremely monitored process subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

Rules/Regulations are written by a promulgation committee/council of agency and contract experts.  The agency that promulgates the Rules/Regulations is set forth by Congress in the Law/Statutes/Act passed by a legislative body.

The proposed rules are written and published in the Federal Register for public comment.  The comments are considered by the committee/council.  Changes are made to the proposed Rules/Regulations and they are published as Final Rules in the Federal Register.   With a date as to when they become effective.

I have served on a promulgation committee.  I can tell you environmental groups submit 20 times more comments than industry does.  I can tell you in the case of environmental law, the influence of environmental interests outweighs that of industry.   Believe whatever you desire!

I absolutely believe the tree hugging Eco-nuts lean heavily on those trying to craft sound environmental policy.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Sim Ang, you didn't answer my question, but simply resorted to an old canard that a "true" free market will solve everything from bunions to how-do-I-always-end-up-with-single-socks. (Just like the socialists that think a "true" socialist system will solves all ills from, well, you know what to you know what). I think most people realize that we need to balance the rights and obligations of capital and labor, eg.

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?
And see, e.g. https://www.finra.org/industry/finra-rulemaking-process

Someone has to pay for slick willie's and barry's jet set lifestyle, their wemens eat like pigs.

Who's the oinker? http://i.imgur.com/VT3oprI.jpg

Your picture is like comparing an apple to a banana. My picture is unbiased, unlike the fake news some post.

 

[True Grit Farms]

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?

Federal Environmental Statutes/Laws are passed by a legislative body.  I will agree that legislators are lobbied but not just by industry.   Environmental interests have extremely powerful lobbies.  In fact, environmental groups influence environmental law more than industry.

This discussion began when Boondocks stated that "industries write regulations".

Federal Regulations/Rules are written by the agency that is designated in the legislative Statute/Act to promulgate the rules to implement the statute.

You can believe the moon is made of green cheese but it is an extremely monitored process subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

Rules/Regulations are written by a promulgation committee/council of agency and contract experts.  The agency that promulgates the Rules/Regulations is set forth by Congress in the Law/Statutes/Act passed by a legislative body.

The proposed rules are written and published in the Federal Register for public comment.  The comments are considered by the committee/council.  Changes are made to the proposed Rules/Regulations and they are published as Final Rules in the Federal Register.   With a date as to when they become effective.

I have served on a promulgation committee.  I can tell you environmental groups submit 20 times more comments than industry does.  I can tell you in the case of environmental law, the influence of environmental interests outweighs that of industry.   Believe whatever you desire!

Some environmentalist - liberals bring up good points that I even agree with.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Sim Ang, you didn't answer my question, but simply resorted to an old canard that a "true" free market will solve everything from bunions to how-do-I-always-end-up-with-single-socks. (Just like the socialists that think a "true" socialist system will solves all ills from, well, you know what to you know what). I think most people realize that we need to balance the rights and obligations of capital and labor, eg.

As for the folks who think that industries don't have a large say in the laws, rules and regs that are drafted, well, what on earth do you think all those millionaire lobbyists are doing?
And see, e.g. https://www.finra.org/industry/finra-rulemaking-process

Someone has to pay for slick willie's and barry's jet set lifestyle, their wemens eat like pigs.

Who's the oinker? http://i.imgur.com/VT3oprI.jpg
or:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/pho ... e-41274612

The "oinker" is your President. Deal with it.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Someone has to pay for slick willie's and barry's jet set lifestyle, their wemens eat like pigs.

Who's the oinker? http://i.imgur.com/VT3oprI.jpg
or:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/pho ... e-41274612

The "oinker" is your President. Deal with it.

Those small hands sure have done good for him.

 

[Bright Raven]

Folks, we live on a congested planet and in a complicated society. Gradually, dictatorial societies are being replaced by free societies. The down side to freedom is that you can believe what you want and adopt whatever values you want. The result is more chaotic than if we had someone dictating what we should believe, what values we must abide in and how we must behave. Take your choice!

 

[Anonymous]

Folks, we live on a congested planet and in a complicated society. Gradually, dictatorial societies are being replaced by free societies. The down side to freedom is that you can believe what you want and adopt whatever values you want. The result is more chaotic than if we had someone dictating what we should believe, what values we must abide in and how we must behave. Take your choice!

More free? Not in my society. More laws equals less freedom. I rarely hear laws repealed. And if so, there is usually a replacement that's worse. Security, welfare, and environmental laws control almost everything a person does.

 

[Bright Raven]

Folks, we live on a congested planet and in a complicated society. Gradually, dictatorial societies are being replaced by free societies. The down side to freedom is that you can believe what you want and adopt whatever values you want. The result is more chaotic than if we had someone dictating what we should believe, what values we must abide in and how we must behave. Take your choice!

More free? Not in my society. More laws equals less freedom. I rarely hear laws repealed. And if so, there is usually a replacement that's worse. Security, welfare, and environmental laws control almost everything a person does.

Relative to a dictatorship, we live in a free society. You must know that a state of total freedom does not exist. If I had total freedom, I could go kill my neighbor, take his cows, property even his wife without consequences.

 

[Anonymous]

Folks, we live on a congested planet and in a complicated society. Gradually, dictatorial societies are being replaced by free societies. The down side to freedom is that you can believe what you want and adopt whatever values you want. The result is more chaotic than if we had someone dictating what we should believe, what values we must abide in and how we must behave. Take your choice!

More free? Not in my society. More laws equals less freedom. I rarely hear laws repealed. And if so, there is usually a replacement that's worse. Security, welfare, and environmental laws control almost everything a person does.

Relative to a dictatorship, we live in a free society. You must know that a state of total freedom does not exist. If I had total freedom, I could go kill my neighbor, take his cows, property even his wife without consequences.

Dictatorship by one or by thousands still results suppression of freedom. No doubt there are places in world that are more free now than they have been in centuries. I'm just saying that the slow steady force of government control is happening here. Surely you can see that happening over your lifetime. This country has come a long ways from a Constitution Republic. Few today seem to agree with the statement... "That government is best which governs least''. Everyone has their agenda, whatever it may be, and wants it forced on the rest of society through government.

 

[Bright Raven]

Dictatorship by one or by thousands still results suppression of freedom. No doubt there are places in world that are more free now than they have been in centuries. I'm just saying that the slow steady force of government control is happening here. Surely you can see that happening over your lifetime. This country has come a long ways from a Constitution Republic. Few today seem to agree with the statement... "That government is best which governs least''. Everyone has their agenda, whatever it may be, and wants it forced on the rest of society through government.

Yes. Absolutely. It can only get worse with more advances in technology and more global congestion.

For example, when medical science discovers the treatment for aging, world authorities will have to regulate how the treatment will be administered. Obviously, everyone cannot live forever. Furthermore, if the existing population lifespan becomes infinite, then the birthrate will have to be regulated. Regulations that you never dreamed of will over shadow your progeny.

As much as I admire your passion for freedom, you seem to expect utopia where there is no possibility.

 

[Anonymous]

Dictatorship by one or by thousands still results suppression of freedom. No doubt there are places in world that are more free now than they have been in centuries. I'm just saying that the slow steady force of government control is happening here. Surely you can see that happening over your lifetime. This country has come a long ways from a Constitution Republic. Few today seem to agree with the statement... "That government is best which governs least''. Everyone has their agenda, whatever it may be, and wants it forced on the rest of society through government.

Yes. Absolutely. It can only get worse with more advances in technology and more global congestion.

For example, when medical science discovers the treatment for aging, world authorities will have to regulate how the treatment will be administered. Obviously, everyone cannot live forever. Furthermore, if the existing population lifespan becomes infinite, then the birthrate will have to be regulated. Regulations that you never dreamed of will over shadow your progeny.

As much as I admire your passion for freedom, you seem to expect utopia where there is no possibility.

I'm that naive. Utopia doesn't exist, not worldly anyway. Only life and struggles. I would prefer to just be left alone in my endeavors. The "world authorities" you mention sounds a lot like like dictators to me.

 

[Bright Raven]

Dictatorship by one or by thousands still results suppression of freedom. No doubt there are places in world that are more free now than they have been in centuries. I'm just saying that the slow steady force of government control is happening here. Surely you can see that happening over your lifetime. This country has come a long ways from a Constitution Republic. Few today seem to agree with the statement... "That government is best which governs least''. Everyone has their agenda, whatever it may be, and wants it forced on the rest of society through government.

Yes. Absolutely. It can only get worse with more advances in technology and more global congestion.

For example, when medical science discovers the treatment for aging, world authorities will have to regulate how the treatment will be administered. Obviously, everyone cannot live forever. Furthermore, if the existing population lifespan becomes infinite, then the birthrate will have to be regulated. Regulations that you never dreamed of will over shadow your progeny.

As much as I admire your passion for freedom, you seem to expect utopia where there is no possibility.

I'm that naive. Utopia doesn't exist, not worldly anyway. Only life and struggles. I would prefer to just be left alone in my endeavors. The "world authorities" you mention sounds a lot like like dictators to me.

In a sense, they are. As the world becomes more complicated, it will be more difficult to be "Just left alone".