Registered vs Commercial

[CattleMan1920]

I know lots of people who use stonegates cattle. A guy I work with says the females he has purchased from them are some of the best in the field. He has made the comment several times that they have some of the most easy keeping functional cattle that he has purchased.

The bull we had threw great calves. By far the best bull we have had on the farm in 15 years. Problem was like every angus bull we have ever had they get wild around 3-4 years old. I don't care how good any bull is when I'm afraid to be in the field with him he is gone.

We have the top bull out of the 2015 Stone Gate sale. He is as docile as any animal I have ever been around. His daughters have been VERY GOOD, all are genetically tested, he has produced over 25 progeny so far with positive results.

How the heck do you determine that? There's no way his daughters, or their daughters are in production.

We began AI'ng them last month, nearly 2/3rd's are settled. This bull gave us 13 female calves from 12/22/2015 till 10/02/2017. He also has 4 sons that are in production. Two of those sons have sired nearly 50 calves on a commercial herd, the other two are breeding cows and heifers during the fall-winter season, with excellent results (as far as getting them settled) so far. Add up all the production from this one animal and you will see he was was a bargain at $5k. I also owe his success to Apex Angus, which is in his bloodline along with MYTTY in Focus. Right now I have 4 of his sons left to sell, all are service ready.

As for how Stone Gate operates, we have used a lot of bulls from them over the years and only once was there a fertility issue, they replaced him immediately, no questions asked. Charles Cannon and his brother Jere Cannon are REAL CATTLEMEN and the whole family are first class, hard-working people. It bothers me when I see people talk garbage about someone when it's simply not true. Will every bull out of Stone Gate be a winner, I doubt it, but they are VERY consistent overall, and like I said will deal with problems if they are the fault of Stone Gate. Dig deep into their bloodlines and you will see the best sires were used all throughout the 70's when AI really took hold in the Angus breed.

BTW, one of his daughters who is from the 16 year old cow, is due to give birth to a SAV Elation 7899 calf very soon, I will keep you filled in on how that turns out. What's special about the old gal (16 year old) is that she still carries herself well, has excellent feet and is still fertile. That's a big plus in my book.

 

[Bright Raven]

How the heck do you determine that? There's no way his daughters, or their daughters are in production.

We began AI'ng them last month, nearly 2/3rd's are settled. This bull gave us 13 female calves from 12/22/2015 till 10/02/2017. He also has 4 sons that are in production. Two of those sons have sired nearly 50 calves on a commercial herd, the other two are breeding cows and heifers during the fall-winter season, with excellent results (as far as getting them settled) so far. Add up all the production from this one animal and you will see he was was a bargain at $5k. I also owe his success to Apex Angus, which is in his bloodline along with MYTTY in Focus. Right now I have 4 of his sons left to sell, all are service ready.

As for how Stone Gate operates, we have used a lot of bulls from them over the years and only once was there a fertility issue, they replaced him immediately, no questions asked. Charles Cannon and his brother Jere Cannon are REAL CATTLEMEN and the whole family are first class, hard-working people. It bothers me when I see people talk garbage about someone when it's simply not true. Will every bull out of Stone Gate be a winner, I doubt it, but they are VERY consistent overall, and like I said will deal with problems if they are the fault of Stone Gate. Dig deep into their bloodlines and you will see the best sires were used all throughout the 70's when AI really took hold in the Angus breed.

BTW, one of his daughters who is from the 16 year old cow, is due to give birth to a SAV Elation 7899 calf very soon, I will keep you filled in on how that turns out. What's special about the old gal (16 year old) is that she still carries herself well, has excellent feet and is still fertile. That's a big plus in my book.

Those are the kind of people you would be better off not doing business with. No matter what you do, they are going to whine about it. No one needs that kind of crap.

In my travels, I have heard good things about Stone Gate Farm.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Stone Gate is top notch.

 

[CattleMan1920]

If you have not heard of McCumber Angus Ranch in North Dakota, you should definitely bring yourself up to speed. Stone Gate had a bull from there, McCumber Unmistakable 573. We have two sons out of that bull, and if you look at the pedigree you will see the OCC Unmistakable and OCC Paxton influence. OCC Paxton is Coleman Charlo's sire, and SAV President 6847's grandsire. As you can see Stone Gate is not some fly by night operation, they put thought into the sires they use. We are really impressed by the way with the McCumber Unmistakable 573 sons have developed, so much so that we were able to get semen from ANOTHER Unmistakable son, McCumber Unmistakable 524, a bull owned by Arntzen Angus Ranch, to use this winter. Those Unmistakable sons look excellent, and the 524 bull should produce some top-notch herd sires with a strong maternal influence. The daughters are definitely keepers as well. A lot of buyers at Stone Gate, I'm pretty certain, never do the homework to find out what they are buying, if they did, they would know that Charles, Jere, and the family don't use just any old bull in their operation. Here is a photo of that McCumber Unmistakable 524 bull that we are breeding to at Branded. He sold in 2016, 1/2 interest for $50k. A bargain! I'm sure the owners of AAR Ten X 7008 S A know that however.....

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Branded, you are a great new addition. Hope some "sour" notes don't chase you away. We really have a great group of "ornery" cow folks on here.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Branded, you are a great new addition. Hope some "sour" notes don't chase you away. We really have a great group of "ornery" cow folks on here.

+1

 

[Son of Butch]

I know nothing of Stone Gate, so my comment is not directed at them.
But, not every bull from every well managed program deserves to be a breeding bull.
I've seen better bulls from small producers sell for less than what the bottom 1/3 of 'name brand' bull sales bring.

Reminds me of our old local dairy auctioneer when he couldn't find something good to say about a cow in the ring
he would slip in the word best by saying... "She stood next to the best cow in the barn." Always made me

In dd5 defense (like mine) his top dollar bid wouldn't qualify as an opening bid on the good bulls at 'name brand' sales.
Which is another good reason to use A.I.
Like myself I'm betting dd5 is better off buying from local producers than taking bottom cut from 'name brand' farms.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I prefer A.I. any day, don't confuse what I'm saying. The bull from Stone Gate was used when we were not able to AI in a particular year. He performed beautifully, we did not lose a single calf and he settled every available female. I am under no impression that he holds a candle to Hoover Dam, etc., but he did his job, and now we are AI'ng his daughters to top sires. As for his sons, they have mostly been sold around KY to commercial and registered operations. The sons as I said before have performed well. Most commercial producers aren't using $10k sires or above. If most of the commercial producers were faced with paying the average cost of a Schaff bull they would certainly walk away, and buy what was far cheaper. I speak with people weekly that tell me that $1500 is the top dollar that they would pay for a bull, so you see what I'm saying right? For many commercial producers as long as that bull can stand up and get a few settled, they could care less about the pedigree or EPD's, to them a bull is a bull. I do have some customers however that are sincerely trying to improve their herd and cannot justify paying $20k or more for a bull, therefore sons of this Stone Gate bull we own and Stone Gate's bulls fill the niche. They cost around $3-4k on average and they get the job done without surprises. I'm AI'ng to get the quality of our females to another level, and to have AI sons to sell. There are commercial producers around here that are slowly coming around to recognizing that genetics plays a big role in how much they make when they go to sell their steers. In my opinion, the cattle market is going to be a much more competitive place in the future and the demand for prime is going to soar, when I look around I don't see much of anything in my area that would stand a chance of scoring prime, more like select. You can't remain viable in the cattle market selling those type of cattle. I have people argue with me all day long at the feed store about this, but, Angus steers with excellent carcass traits will keep you in business when times get tough. The demand will always be there. I'm not talking black hide either, I'm talking purebred Angus. Just call Creekstone or others and tell them that you have 50 steers, 7 weights sired by Hoover Dam or GAR Momentum and they are from registered cows and see how fast that truck rolls up at your gate with a fat check. Also as for Stone Gate they were one of the VERY few farms recognized by CAB recently for a "Brand the barn" painting and anniversary celebration. That isn't given to just any operation out there.

 

[Bright Raven]

I prefer A.I. any day, don't confuse what I'm saying. The bull from Stone Gate was used when we were not able to AI in a particular year. He performed beautifully, we did not lose a single calf and he settled every available female. I am under no impression that he holds a candle to Hoover Dam, etc., but he did his job, and now we are AI'ng his daughters to top sires. As for his sons, they have mostly been sold around KY to commercial and registered operations. The sons as I said before have performed well. Most commercial producers aren't using $10k sires or above. If most of the commercial producers were faced with paying the average cost of a Schaff bull they would certainly walk away, and buy what was far cheaper. I speak with people weekly that tell me that $1500 is the top dollar that they would pay for a bull, so you see what I'm saying right? For many commercial producers as long as that bull can stand up and get a few settled, they could care less about the pedigree or EPD's, to them a bull is a bull. I do have some customers however that are sincerely trying to improve their herd and cannot justify paying $20k or more for a bull, therefore sons of this Stone Gate bull we own and Stone Gate's bulls fill the niche. They cost around $3-4k on average and they get the job done without surprises. I'm AI'ng to get the quality of our females to another level, and to have AI sons to sell. There are commercial producers around here that are slowly coming around to recognizing that genetics plays a big role in how much they make when they go to sell their steers. In my opinion, the cattle market is going to be a much more competitive place in the future and the demand for prime is going to soar, when I look around I don't see much of anything in my area that would stand a chance of scoring prime, more like select. You can't remain viable in the cattle market selling those type of cattle. I have people argue with me all day long at the feed store about this, but, Angus steers with excellent carcass traits will keep you in business when times get tough. The demand will always be there. I'm not talking black hide either, I'm talking purebred Angus. Just call Creekstone or others and tell them that you have 50 steers, 7 weights sired by Hoover Dam or GAR Momentum and they are from registered cows and see how fast that truck rolls up at your gate with a fat check. Also as for Stone Gate they were one of the VERY few farms recognized by CAB recently for a "Brand the barn" painting and anniversary celebration. That isn't given to just any operation out there.

Good post but you need to know that this will cause Ebenezer a severe case of heartburn. Lol. In fact, he is probably making a voodoo doll of you!

Ebenezer advocates buying your bulls from local breeders who haven't a clue of what the pedigree of their bulls are. If you ask, they will spend 30 minutes telling you a story about how their granddad started with a bull that came over on the Mayflower. How they have inbred for 200 years. For Ebenezer, the key word is "many generations". As long as you have been breeding locally on the farm for multiple generations, it doesn't matter if your Angus bull is a quarter shetland pony.

 

[JMER1533]

I know this is an older thread but these last two posts in this thread just made my night! The last one because it's hilarious (no disrespect Ebeneezer) and the 2nd to last for being informative. I hadn't heard of that CAB brand the barn before.