Registered vs Commercial

[kentuckyguy]

I have recently been considering starting to replace my commercial cattle with registered. I only run at the most 20 cows so I am really small.

What should be some of my main considerations when choosing to go registered?
My biggest fear is spending the money on registered females and all the paperwork to register calves and selling calves at commercial prices.

I would really like to get out of selling my calves at the local stockyards which lately has been brutal. I understand I will still have to ship the culls there, but would like other options.

I am just not sure that the registered cattle will sell any better than say some good purebred angus or BFW calves. I recently took an AI course and plan to start doing quite a bit of it. Does anyone have luck selling calves sired by big name bulls that are not registered or are crossbred?

 

[wbvs58]

People won't be beating a path to your door to buy your cattle. I started with a couple to benchmark against my commercial cattle and liked what I got so I kept adding, mainly to produce good commercial cattle. I started marketing a couple of bulls and now have a little sale going in partnership with another small breeder, last year my 2 yr olds averaged $5970 and this year in a very tough drought affected year averaged $5500, I have been very lucky. My goal in breeding is to produce great eye appealing females, I don't care whether registered or commercial, just so happens all of mine are registered now.

If you go about it with no great expectations other than to produce a great cow herd you will be very happy and you never know what may follow in selling the bull calf progeny but don't just get hung up on those sales.

Ken

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have recently been considering starting to replace my commercial cattle with registered. I only run at the most 20 cows so I am really small.

What should be some of my main considerations when choosing to go registered?
My biggest fear is spending the money on registered females and all the paperwork to register calves and selling calves at commercial prices.

I would really like to get out of selling my calves at the local stockyards which lately has been brutal. I understand I will still have to ship the culls there, but would like other options.

I am just not sure that the registered cattle will sell any better than say some good purebred angus or BFW calves. I recently took an AI course and plan to start doing quite a bit of it. Does anyone have luck selling calves sired by big name bulls that are not registered or are crossbred?

You are playing a game that has loser all over it with 20 head. This is a money game as much as cattle.
I played with 37 momma cows it was a journey to build your reputation and repeat customer.
If you have really good stuff 60 to 70% will be seedstock quality the rest have to compete in the salebarn if you aren't pasture blind. That percentage isn't happening the first few years.
Just because it has papers doesn't make it Seedstock or more valuable at the salebarn.
You are selling your name as well as the breed.
I went back totally commercial after the 2011 drought.
I still get calls looking for my bulls.
That's my 2 cents.

 

[CSM]

Life is short, do what you think you would enjoy. Good luck.

 

[Bright Raven]

Ken and I do about the same thing. I like what he said about expectations.

I can sell more bulls and heifers than I can produce. Regarding AI, My entire operation orbits around AI because that is what I enjoy. I enjoy the process. Just be aware that it takes a commitment of time. I know several who have tried it and most went back to live bull service.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I haven't seen much difference between good commercial and registered heifer prices. The heavy hitters sell a couple of registered heifers for high dollars then the rest usually sell within a couple of hundred dollars of the good commercial heifers.
To sell registered stock you need to breed to the bull of the month or have a good reputation. Registered buyers look at numbers, commercial buyers look at the animal.

 

[cbcr]

what breed of cows do you have now?

What breed(s) are you considering?

 

[kentuckyguy]

Right now mostly all Angus or Angus hereford cross cows.

I have always really liked Herefords but would most likely go with Angus or Simmental.

I realize I'm not going to start right off having cattle that everyone wants but I would like to pick a path and follow it. I am 33 years old and would like to set some long term goals of where I would like to be. My ultimate goal is to raise the best cattle I possibly can I just haven't decided if that will be with registered or commercial cattle.

If I knew I could sell the good commercial heifers for close to what the registered heifers would bring I would probably not mess with it. There are a lot of buyers out there that like to see numbers on a EPD sheet no matter how good the heifer or bull look.

 

[Bright Raven]

Right now mostly all Angus or Angus hereford cross cows.

I have always really liked Herefords but would most likely go with Angus or Simmental.

I realize I'm not going to start right off having cattle that everyone wants but I would like to pick a path and follow it. I am 33 years old and would like to set some long term goals of where I would like to be. My ultimate goal is to raise the best cattle I possibly can I just haven't decided if that will be with registered or commercial cattle.

If I knew I could sell the good commercial heifers for close to what the registered heifers would bring I would probably not mess with it. There are a lot of buyers out there that like to see numbers on a EPD sheet no matter how good the heifer or bull look.

Will

It is good to ask questions and sound-out your plans. However, you know the markets here as well or better particularly in your area. As you say, there is a target market for folks looking for a "high value" heifer or bull. A small operation can target that market just as easy as a larger operation unless someone is looking for 20 heifers.

I would only be cautious about going with breeds that are not in the mainstream.

 

[Ebenezer]

Do what you want to do and do not let other's failures slow you down. Know what you want to breed, what works for you and start slowly. You do not have to compete with big producers. If you have a good reputation and treat people right there is a steady market for real cattle from local herds at decent prices that can fix the problems that come from the big herds, the dishonest or from far away to not fit local environments. Don't overspend to start and plan to spend annually like a commercial producer. You have to follow your passion and your brain to enjoy life. Find a source as close as possible to your environment to start that has a successful breeding program based on home raised fertile cattle and not just a AI based herd from every Tom, Dick and Harry in industry.

 

[bse]

With registered you always have 2 options to sale ( registered or commercial). commercial only 1(commercial).
paperwork takes me about 1 min each time I enter something, for a total of 5 min through the animals life here. BW, WW, register, YW, sale. add 2 min when i do genomics, 1 min to pull the blood 1 min to enter it. I do believe if your not gonna do the paperwork dont mess with registered.
I dont register anything untill weaning, so i only have $3 in the calf if i dont register it.
Buy you a couple of nice registered cows A I sexed semen (its not 100% ) . or if you already have a good set of cows look at embryos, could get you going quick. but still the selling wont happen over night.
Lot of good advice here both for and against. the best was do what you think you will enjoy!

 

[Bright Raven]

With registered you always have 2 options to sale ( registered or commercial). commercial only 1(commercial).
paperwork takes me about 1 min each time I enter something, for a total of 5 min through the animals life here. BW, WW, register, YW, sale. add 2 min when i do genomics, 1 min to pull the blood 1 min to enter it. I do believe if your not gonna do the paperwork dont mess with registered.
I dont register anything untill weaning, so i only have $3 in the calf if i dont register it.
Buy you a couple of nice registered cows A I sexed semen (its not 100% ) . or if you already have a good set of cows look at embryos, could get you going quick. but still the selling wont happen over night.
Lot of good advice here both for and against. the best was do what you think you will enjoy!

I endorse this message.

BTW: Barry. I like the Simmental Association Total Herd Enrollment. You pay an annual fee per cow and then you can register her calf without any additional charge. It saves a ton of money. I register every calf at birth.

PS: Will, the embryo idea is fantastic. You can make gigantic progress with a few good embryos. For 250 bucks you can have a heifer ready to breed in 15 months that would cost you $3500 to 5000 on the hoof.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you want to do it for you, go for it with open eyes.
Your foundation cows will never pencil out cost of the cow with the majority of the progeny at the salebarn, until you establish a reputation. Your right about everyone wanting to see numbers, just very few are willing to pay for it. You mentioned Herefords.
Research TPR there is a lot of work, reporting and additional cost that goes with it. You pay to carry the dam in your pasture yearly along with the registration fees and data collection on the progeny.
If you pick Angus your pretty well trying to push a rope uphill against the competition.
You can have the prettiest pasture of welfare cattle for everyone to see that's easy. Getting them to pay their way when your the shortest hog at the trough is another thing.

 

[ddd75]

i just had a sale flyer sent to me. it has about 15 consignors all must only have 2-3 cows per farm for sale. so.. with just a few "nice" ones you could possible make a decent amount if you could do it that way. no need to change the entire herd, you could try it out with 5 and see how you do if you could get into a sale like that.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Forgot to add in previous post my opinion of the AHA is lower than a snakes belly in a wagon rut.

 

[Bright Raven]

Don't forget something that may be unique to Kentucky. The CAIP program. The criteria provides a strong demand for registered heifers. I wish I had more heifers because I have to tell lots of potential buyers who want registered pedigree, heifers that I have none.

I sell mine bred, they all have a pelvic evaluation, are ultrasounded as bred and exceed the vaccination requirements. As long as that program continues, it is going to underpin registered heifers that meet the CAIP criteria.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Right now mostly all Angus or Angus hereford cross cows.

I have always really liked Herefords but would most likely go with Angus or Simmental.

I realize I'm not going to start right off having cattle that everyone wants but I would like to pick a path and follow it. I am 33 years old and would like to set some long term goals of where I would like to be. My ultimate goal is to raise the best cattle I possibly can I just haven't decided if that will be with registered or commercial cattle.

If I knew I could sell the good commercial heifers for close to what the registered heifers would bring I would probably not mess with it. There are a lot of buyers out there that like to see numbers on a EPD sheet no matter how good the heifer or bull look.

I would definitely go outside the norm of Angus.........with something like Simmental or gelbvieh you would have the option to market to the multitude of angus breeders to cross with..Angus are on every corner. And you'd just fall in a line of breeders that would circle the globe....

 

[kentuckyguy]

What other breed would you suggest then?

With our current market here it's hard to move something without a black hide.

I personally really like Hereford cattle but I've put almost 1000 miles on my truck the last month only to be disappointed when I seen them in person. I also don't like that my culls going to the sale barn will most likely get docked very hard.

I have given serious thought about going Simmental. I figure I could buy registered heifers and breed up with the best cows that I currently have.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

What other breed would you suggest then?

With our current market here it's hard to move something without a black hide.

I personally really like Hereford cattle but I've put almost 1000 miles on my truck the last month only to be disappointed when I seen them in person. I also don't like that my culls going to the sale barn will most likely get docked very hard.

I have given serious thought about going Simmental. I figure I could buy registered heifers and breed up with the best cows that I currently have.

looking back at my post,fixed it I hope.. I meant ,go with one like Simmental or Gelbvieh...I like Hereford in a commercial operation..folks like the balancer cattle...but those gelbvieh/ Hereford cross are some awesome cows. In their own right,along with a red Angus/Simmental..cross

 

[True Grit Farms]

Don't forget something that may be unique to Kentucky. The CAIP program. The criteria provides a strong demand for registered heifers. I wish I had more heifers because I have to tell lots of potential buyers who want registered pedigree, heifers that I have none.

I sell mine bred, they all have a pelvic evaluation, are ultrasounded as bred and exceed the vaccination requirements. As long as that program continues, it is going to underpin registered heifers that meet the CAIP criteria.

That program doesn't sound fiscally sound to me, but it's easy spending someone else's money. Around here a kid can buy 3 commercial heifers or 2 registered heifers bred the same way for the same money. It's a no brainer which way to go unless you know someone who will AI the registered heifers back for you.