Registered vs Commercial

[ALACOWMAN]

MrVictorDomino, aka Danny Miller in Knifely, KY.

Send him a PM. GREAT Herefords.

I agree.

Kyhill as long as you go in with your eyes open you will be okay.
better have that Wallet open as well... .. :cowboy:

 

[kentuckyguy]

MrVictorDomino, aka Danny Miller in Knifely, KY.

Send him a PM. GREAT Herefords.

I contacted them about a month ago. They didn't have any heifers for sale and had a waiting list that was already pretty full for next years crop.

The bull we just purchased came from a guy who had purchased a large lot of bred cows off of them. He is leaps and bounds better than most Herefords I find locally.

 

[Ky hills]

MrVictorDomino, aka Danny Miller in Knifely, KY.

Send him a PM. GREAT Herefords.

I agree.

Kyhill as long as you go in with your eyes open you will be okay.
better have that Wallet open as well... .. :cowboy:

Good advice from Caustic Burno and Alacowman both, but just to clarify, the original poster was Kentuckyguy. This here Ky hills feller has already been down the registered road and through enough money into that creek to do me. My pocket book ain't opening too wide ever again on that registered game.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I agree.

Kyhill as long as you go in with your eyes open you will be okay.
better have that Wallet open as well... .. :cowboy:

Good advice from Caustic Burno and Alacowman both, but just to clarify, the original poster was Kentuckyguy. This here Ky hills feller has already been down the registered road and through enough money into that creek to do me. My pocket book ain't opening too wide ever again on that registered game.

All them Ky folks look alike from Pee Wee Valley or Big Bone Lick area.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I agree.

Kyhill as long as you go in with your eyes open you will be okay.
better have that Wallet open as well... .. :cowboy:

Good advice from Caustic Burno and Alacowman both, but just to clarify, the original poster was Kentuckyguy. This here Ky hills feller has already been down the registered road and through enough money into that creek to do me. My pocket book ain't opening too wide ever again on that registered game.

All them Ky folks look alike from Pee Wee Valley or Big Bone Lick area.

All that close breeding will doer.. So ive been told... :lol:

 

[Nesikep]

And what breed is it Nesi? Let me guess, Speckle Park?????? I will be interested in how you go about things, are you going to do an AI course? Maybe learn from videos? I am sure you would pick it up well.

Ken

Gelbvieh, and the tan/red types. Couldn't get a good pic of her but it's the tan heifer here.. I already have a bunch of unregistered 1/2 GV stock, I'll probably get a bull as well, register some of his calves from my best crossbred cows and work my way up.. I'll certainly start slow


AI? well, maybe I'll get into it at some point.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You have to go out every day and take care of your cattle, be sure to pick something you will enjoy looking at.
To me, I don't care if they are black, red, or purple polka dotted - just as long as they are GOOD.
If you chose Simmental, you can have both worlds - reds and/or blacks - with or without white chrome.
You can breed all your cows to a PB Simmental bull and have 1/2 blood offspring right away. I would NOT buy heifers. I would buy a bred COW.
(and this is coming from someone that makes her living off of selling weaned heifers!!! - they are my money makers. But, I still have the factory.)
When I buy new genetics, I buy a bred cow. She is experienced. She is already "what she is". Not, with a heifer. Maybe she will be great when she "grows up" or ----- maybe NOT. Buy something PROVEN. You can add 1 or 2 cows each year and have your own herd producing replacement heifers. Embryos are also another way to get into a breed quickly.

 

[kentuckyguy]

Jeanne how does the ASA come up with EPD's for a purebred Simmental bred to a commercial cow?

Do you have to breed a couple generations to get EPD's?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Not sure how to answer that. They will calculate EPD's on the calf, based on the sire bred to a commercial cow. they will ask the breed or breeds of the cow. Their data base is huge. It includes all the Canadian records and the Red Angus. AAA will not "share".
You will get EPD's on the 1st cross offspring, yes.

 

[kentuckyguy]

I wasn't sure if they were able to do anything with a blood test. Most of our young heifers and cows go back to a stonegate angus bull that never was registered.

 

[wbvs58]

And what breed is it Nesi? Let me guess, Speckle Park?????? I will be interested in how you go about things, are you going to do an AI course? Maybe learn from videos? I am sure you would pick it up well.

Ken

Gelbvieh, and the tan/red types. Couldn't get a good pic of her but it's the tan heifer here.. I already have a bunch of unregistered 1/2 GV stock, I'll probably get a bull as well, register some of his calves from my best crossbred cows and work my way up.. I'll certainly start slow


AI? well, maybe I'll get into it at some point.

Gelbvieh my 2nd pick. She looks the goods.

Ken

 

[cbcr]

Jeanne how does the ASA come up with EPD's for a purebred Simmental bred to a commercial cow?

Do you have to breed a couple generations to get EPD's?

The way that the ASA does their EPD's for new animals entering the system is supposed to be the breed average for the year of birth is what we have heard and been told.

This doesn't always happen and some animals come in and start with a zero, which makes the EPD's from this not very accurate.

Their EPD's are multi-breed, but we are hearing that bulls that had good EPD's before the multi breed EPD's now are not very good. Hard to explain to a bull buyer.

We have seen it in evaluations that do multi-breed and within breed evaluations. We have seen animals that within breed be in the very top end for calving ease, but them on a multi-breed basis not be very good for calving ease.

The genetic evaluations only look at the birth weight of the calf, but what about the cow? A cow should give birth to a calf that is around 6% of her body weight. So a 1000 lb cow should have a 60 lb calf,a 1200 lb cow should be able to have a 72 lb calf and a 1500 lb cow should have an 90 lb calf. But if these were bulls and the buyer was only looking at the birth weights they would not consider the 90 lb calf.

To more accurately figure calving ease, the weight of the cow at calving should be used.

 

[Nesikep]

a 1500 lb cow should be able to have a 90 lb calf backward and upside down
Most of my first timers have calves 80 lbs or so.. herd average is 100, average cow weight is probably around 1400

 

[ddd75]

I wasn't sure if they were able to do anything with a blood test. Most of our young heifers and cows go back to a stonegate angus bull that never was registered.

i bought 2 of those stonegate bulls and they ended up breeding 1 cow.

good thing I had my commercial bulls to actually do something.

talk about throwing money away. screw those guys..

 

[Bright Raven]

a 1500 lb cow should be able to have a 90 lb calf backward and upside down
Most of my first timers have calves 80 lbs or so.. herd average is 100, average cow weight is probably around 1400

I have a 1500 pound cow that delivered a 123 pound calf this fall. My cows probably average about 1300 pounds. My average birthweight is 87 pounds and they spit them out like watermelon seeds.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Birth weight is NOT the only thing in the formula for CE. I cannot explain the process because too many factors enter into it. Cow SIZE does enter into the evaluation. We are asked to turn in weights, height and disposition scores in addition to the normal info. Calculations evolve when better ways are developed. Environment (location) enters into the equation. They do NOT take the average of the breed for the year to give you EPD's. They are calculated on an individual basis. Yes, if the bull has NO data (homegrown sire out of homegrown dam and sire, etc), then the EPD's are very, very low in accuracies and breed average "may" enter the picture, I am unsure of that. If you take a sire with no genetic history (homegrown out of homegrown with little to none progeny) then they have nothing to work with. Maybe DNA data would help.

 

[Bright Raven]

Birth weight is NOT the only thing in the formula for CE. I cannot explain the process because too many factors enter into it. Cow SIZE does enter into the evaluation. We are asked to turn in weights, height and disposition scores in addition to the normal info. Calculations evolve when better ways are developed. Environment (location) enters into the equation. They do NOT take the average of the breed for the year to give you EPD's. They are calculated on an individual basis. Yes, if the bull has NO data (homegrown sire out of homegrown dam and sire, etc), then the EPD's are very, very low in accuracies and breed average "may" enter the picture, I am unsure of that. If you take a sire with no genetic history (homegrown out of homegrown with little to none progeny) then they have nothing to work with. Maybe DNA data would help.

Do you have your cattle enrolled in THE? I assume you do. Do you get all the data reported?

 

[Supa Dexta]

Until you guys start running your cows thru a scale -regularly- you have no idea what your cows weigh.

 

[Ky hills]

I wasn't sure if they were able to do anything with a blood test. Most of our young heifers and cows go back to a stonegate angus bull that never was registered.

i bought 2 of those stonegate bulls and they ended up breeding 1 cow.

good thing I had my commercial bulls to actually do something.

talk about throwing money away. screw those guys..

Never had any experience with Stone Gate stuff except a friend that bought one. The bull looked pretty good but his disposition wasn't. A lot of folks in the area use those Bulls, so that one instance probably isn't a complete representation. I have sank a lot of money over the years in these registered Bulls as well as a some cows. Not all of them have worked out. The new Beefmaster bull I got a month ago thinking a different breed may pan out a little better is already gone to hamburger due to injuring his working parts and not even being with any open cows.

 

[Bright Raven]

Until you guys start running your cows thru a scale -regularly- you have no idea what your cows weigh.

I agree. I only weigh my calves. I guess weight based on experience. But it is only a guess. It affects all weight-based treatments. I estimate weight on the high side doing treatment.