Quick question about genetics

[j&lfarms]

I am wanting to buy a neighbors herd when he sells out in a few months. I already have a bull from his herd. My question is would it be okay for that bull to breed his mother? I wouldn't keep the calf just always sell it after weaning. What are the chances of something wrong happening? I can always just sell that cow out and buy back with something else. What do y'all think?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Don't do it.

Father to daughter is okay and has been done for years and years. Anything else is a train wreck.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I am wanting to buy a neighbors herd when he sells out in a few months. I already have a bull from his herd. My question is would it be okay for that bull to breed his mother?

It's rare I'd let one animal's potential breeding dictate my entire herd management philosophy...

I wouldn't keep the calf just always sell it after weaning.

...especially if I'm not going to keep the prospective calf...

What are the chances of something wrong happening?

What are the known issues with animals in the pedigree (if any)? What breed are you talking about?

I can always just sell that cow out and buy back with something else.

Another legit option.

What do y'all think?

Seems like a small deal to fret over too much over the possibility a bull will breed his mother. This happens all the time in the wild.

If they're good cattle at a fair price you can afford, and they will serve your purpose, get 'em.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Don't do it.

Father to daughter is okay and has been done for years and years. Anything else is a train wreck.

I'd be interested in your logic on why one is a trainwreck and the other isn't (especially since he said he wouldn't be keeping the calf) --- father x. daughter is pretty much the same thing as mother x. son.

Your comment seems illogical to me.

If you have genetic issues, you'll have them either way.

If you want to purge your herd of bad recessives, the only way to do that is to identify them and cull heavily. Some recessives can be identified with (occasionally faulty) DNA tests and/or very close breedings.

 

[bse]

Id have to agree with WC the reason for the father daughter mattings to prove themselves is because theres more daughters out of a sire, the mother to son is a 1 shot deal. Always heard you either get all the good or all the bad when doing that.
I wouldn't let that stop me from buying them if you don't like that option you can always sell that cow.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

I know someone that kept a bull calf as a herdsire, but they still has his mother in the herd. The calves out of the mother/son mating looks normal to me and they're in same weight as their half siblings. The folks don't keep any calves of mother/son matings. Inbred calves taste the same to me anyways.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

We haven't seen any of the results yet of a mother to son breeding, but we will in March. We bred this bull as a yearling to his mother who is shown in the second photo. The bull is shown at 20 months and his mom at 10 years. The cow is our best producer and we bred her to her son, who is currently the best bull we have.

 

[j&lfarms]

The cow in question is arguably the best cow in the herd. (All 3/4 to pure angus) She weans off 600-700lb calves at 5-6 months old. That is why I would like to keep her, but if there is a high chance of something going wrong I will either trade bulls or trade her. Just thought I would ask to see of anyone had any experience with that particular situation.

 

[WalnutCrest]

The cow in question is arguably the best cow in the herd. (All 3/4 to pure angus) She weans off 600-700lb calves at 5-6 months old. That is why I would like to keep her, but if there is a high chance of something going wrong I will either trade bulls or trade her. Just thought I would ask to see of anyone had any experience with that particular situation.

I have a heifer who is the result of a "father x daughter" breeding. She sure looks the part ... I'm looking forward to seeing what she can do for me over the next few years.

...btw, this sort of thing (son to mother ... and ... father to daughter) happens in the wild with some level of regularity...

Arguably, if she's your best cow being bred to your best bull, the offspring have a reasonable shot at being among the best in your herd. I don't know that I'd be too eager to part with them. Keep us in the loop as things progress. Good luck to you (and your soon to be new herd, assuming you get them).

 

[OakCreekRanch]

Nothing wrong with doing a little science experiment

 

[j&lfarms]

Alright well thanks guys. Ill let y'all know in about a year or so how it goes lol

 

[highgrit]

...btw, this sort of thing (son to mother ... and ... father to daughter) happens in the wild with some level of regularity...
The father to daughter thing happens all the time. The son to mother is not very common in the wild. A mother chases her male offspring off and he wanders off looking for his own space.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

...btw, this sort of thing (son to mother ... and ... father to daughter) happens in the wild with some level of regularity...
The father to daughter thing happens all the time. The son to mother is not very common in the wild. A mother chases her male offspring off and he wanders off looking for his own space.

That is IF the dominant male of a said animal is still present in the area OR if a mother is already pregnant. If there are no males present in the said area and the mother is in the heat, she is most likely accepting her son to mate with her. From what I read up on the animal behavior, it's usually the dominant males chase their sons off to prevent them to mating with the dominant male's females.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I wouldn't do it. Why not switch bulls? I genrally make money when I can trade bulls. I certainly wouldn't sell a good cow, I would get a different bull, or just go ahead and breed here with the one you have, although it ain't ideal.

 

[fitz]

I am wanting to buy a neighbors herd when he sells out in a few months. I already have a bull from his herd. My question is would it be okay for that bull to breed his mother? I wouldn't keep the calf just always sell it after weaning. What are the chances of something wrong happening? I can always just sell that cow out and buy back with something else. What do y'all think?

One thing that comes to mine would be the question of him being related to others in the group you're buying in addition to his Dam. If not a factor It would depend on how pleased I was with the Bull. If I wanted to use him on my cows for a longer period he would stay. Especially if I were trying to build a herd with him. He's going to be of more value to me than the Dam in the long run.
On the front end, if I felt like I couldn't do without her, yeah I'd use him on her and sell the calf.

fitz

 

[j&lfarms]

He is not related to any of the others in the herd. The guy hasn't kept any heifers back in quite a few years.

On a side note, This cold weather has put an interesting spin on things huh? Lol

 

[backhoeboogie]

I'd be interested in your logic on why one is a trainwreck and the other isn't (especially since he said he wouldn't be keeping the calf) --- father x. daughter is pretty much the same thing as mother x. son.

Your comment seems illogical to me.

Several generations of advice given. Stories given. Things seen. Never seen an issue with father to daughter. I have never personally bred mother to son so I cannot tell you from my own personal experience. Based on what my forefathers told me, I would never try it. That's my logic.

 

[3waycross]

...btw, this sort of thing (son to mother ... and ... father to daughter) happens in the wild with some level of regularity...
The father to daughter thing happens all the time. The son to mother is not very common in the wild. A mother chases her male offspring off and he wanders off looking for his own space.

Yep for about a year then he comes back kicks his old mans but and breeds him mom and all his sisters. happens in elk herds all the time. Your theory might apply in wild dogs but in ungulates they just wean the calves and go on with it.

 

[3waycross]

I'd be interested in your logic on why one is a trainwreck and the other isn't (especially since he said he wouldn't be keeping the calf) --- father x. daughter is pretty much the same thing as mother x. son.

Your comment seems illogical to me.

Several generations of advice given. Stories given. Things seen. Never seen an issue with father to daughter. I have never personally bred mother to son so I cannot tell you from my own personal experience. Based on what my forefathers told me, I would never try it. That's my logic.

That would be the old "thats the way we always did it logic" there's some of that in every family. I don't usually argue with you Boogie but ya might be wrong here.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

...btw, this sort of thing (son to mother ... and ... father to daughter) happens in the wild with some level of regularity...
The father to daughter thing happens all the time. The son to mother is not very common in the wild. A mother chases her male offspring off and he wanders off looking for his own space.

Yep for about a year then he comes back kicks his old mans but and breeds him mom and all his sisters. happens in elk herds all the time. Your theory might apply in wild dogs but in ungulates they just wean the calves and go on with it.

Or in whitetail herds all time. :nod: