question regarding square vs round hay bales

[shorty]

I've baled hay in round bales that wasn't quite dry enough and I had spoilage the same as if it would have been in square bales. most of my dry hay is made for sale , Mostly in small square bales, if I do bale dry hay in rounds I put it inside to store it. I use my round baler mostly to put up haylage for my cows, and that is all baled wet ( 40-60% moisture ) and wrapped with plastic . those bales can be left outside . the only time you get spoilage is if you get holes in the wrapper. I think cows like it as good or better than dry hay.

 

[novatech]

I've baled hay in round bales that wasn't quite dry enough and I had spoilage the same as if it would have been in square bales. most of my dry hay is made for sale , Mostly in small square bales, if I do bale dry hay in rounds I put it inside to store it. I use my round baler mostly to put up haylage for my cows, and that is all baled wet ( 40-60% moisture ) and wrapped with plastic . those bales can be left outside . the only time you get spoilage is if you get holes in the wrapper. I think cows like it as good or better than dry hay.

We have one man in our area that raps haylage. When there is rain the forcast he sure gets busy around here. I am seeing more of this throughout the state year after year. Seems to be catching on in our part of the country. How does it pencil out?
Or in other words, is it more, or less expensive than hay?
I don,t know anything about the preservatives others have talked about, and no one around here uses it but I am investigateing and would like to here more on the subject.

 

[shorty]

With the price of plastic right now it costs about 3.50 per bale for the plastic plus the labor to wrap it. You also have to have a wrapper and grabber for your loader to handle the bales after they are wrapped. I have an individual wrapper, it might be cheaper with an inline wrapper, I know it's much faster with an inline wrapper. I don't know what they charge to come out and do it. I got got my own so I can wrap them soon after they are baled.

 

[shorty]

You also should have a baler that can handle the wet hay

 

[dcara]

It always amazes me how an issue as important as hay fires is left unresearched by people. Anyway, here's the truth about hay fires.

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... fires.html

As far as measuring the moisture content before bailing (another extremly important issue), I use the dry down ratio meathod. Takes about 30 minutes to do and there is nothing subjective about it.

 

[mdmdogs3]

As far as measuring the moisture content before bailing (another extremly important issue), I use the dry down ratio meathod. Takes about 30 minutes to do and there is nothing subjective about it.

would explain how you do this
I'd rather have a person that does it explain it to me than a professor in a college that ran a couple of tests :roll:

 

[AngusLimoX]

I'd rather have a person that does it explain it to me than a professor in a college that ran a couple of tests :roll:

Here is the professors version mdm, you can compare it to the credible persons. :lol:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/eng ... 93-025.htm

SL, as you do your research you are likely going to see that dry hay can be put up in small squares a few points higher than rounds.

ALX

 

[novatech]

I'd rather have a person that does it explain it to me than a professor in a college that ran a couple of tests :roll:

Here is the professors version mdm, you can compare it to the credible persons. :lol:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/eng ... 93-025.htm

SL, as you do your research you are likely going to see that dry hay can be put up in small squares a few points higher than rounds.

ALX

Great article Thanks

 

[novatech]

With the price of plastic right now it costs about 3.50 per bale for the plastic plus the labor to wrap it. You also have to have a wrapper and grabber for your loader to handle the bales after they are wrapped. I have an individual wrapper, it might be cheaper with an inline wrapper, I know it's much faster with an inline wrapper. I don't know what they charge to come out and do it. I got got my own so I can wrap them soon after they are baled.

Thanks for the info Shorty

Is this the same as silage that was just brought on another post by daworz? Might want to switch to that thread.

 

[dcara]

Take a handful of raked hay from three different spots in the field.

I use my microwave oven in the dry down ratio test. When collecting your samples get them from the same microenvironment. That is, don't mix samples from an open field environment with samples from a shaded environment such as along a tree line since the shaded areas will still be a few points higher in moisture content for maybe up to a week than the open field areas, depending on weather of course. I had two 5x5 round bales from a tree line with core temps around 107 degrees 10 days after bailing a few weeks ago. The rest of the open field bales were only running about 10 degrees above ambient, or about 88 degrees.

 

[AngusLimoX]

That is, don't mix samples from an open field environment with samples from a shaded environment such as along a tree line since the shaded areas will still be a few points higher in moisture content for maybe up to a week than the open field areas, depending on weather of course.

Good points, usually bale treelines/shaded areas last. Maybe even need to turn em one more time.

If you have thick windrows make sure to get some sample from deep in the pile, where it could be much wetter, but be careful not to pull an isolated clump.

Which is another plus for small squares, a wet clump will often ruin the whole bale in a roll, but usually just one or 2 if small square. Small point, but it happens often enough.

ALX

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

SL, as you do your research you are likely going to see that dry hay can be put up in small squares a few points higher than rounds.

Looks like you people have already done my research for me. Thanks!
Now if you are going to hang your hat on this article, then you will have to concede that those "few points higher" really doesn't amount to a hill of beans because it also says:

Spontaneous heating and combustion occurs when sufficient moisture (above 25% and below 45% moisture content for forages),
What is the Cause of Fires?
Hay that is too wet will heat (above 25% moisture content)

You also may want to note that those "few points higher" are only "Table 1. Recommended Storage Moisture Contents" not recommended baling moisture content.
So you see,you will not increase your potential for spontaneous combustion until you reach 25%.
So I can round bale @ 24% and not place them in storage where as you can not with a small square bale because you must place them in storage.
And another thing about this "Table 1. Recommended Storage Moisture Contents". Why is it that he has a Large Round Bales: hard and Soft Core and not a Small Square Bales hard and soft core? Does he not know you can bale small square bales with both a hard and soft core just like round bales?
Now I'm at a loss as to what you people are having such a problem with, as both sources you'll posted are telling you exactly what I was telling you.
Thanks for the articles people!
SL

 

[hillsdown]

With the price of plastic right now it costs about 3.50 per bale for the plastic plus the labor to wrap it. You also have to have a wrapper and grabber for your loader to handle the bales after they are wrapped. I have an individual wrapper, it might be cheaper with an inline wrapper, I know it's much faster with an inline wrapper. I don't know what they charge to come out and do it. I got got my own so I can wrap them soon after they are baled.

My previous hay supplier switched to this method and he wanted to charge 15 dollars a bale to do our hay if we were rained out.This would be just for baling as we would cut it.
I am not a fan of the plastic wrapped bales.The bales are half the size ,the moisture content is around 48% and my cows hated them.Plus I had to pay the same amount for a small round that was mostly water as I would for a large round that was put up dry.I think he saw me as a way of paying off his new equipment in a year.The other thing with the wrapped was that the feed analysis was much lower than if put up dry also all that plastic is a pain in the "you no what" to dispose of.However I have only had an experience with one supplier so maybe he didn't know quite what he was doing.

This was three years ago and since fuel has almost doubled since then he probably wants 25 dolars to bale.

 

[AngusLimoX]

If the truth be known, round bales will save you about a day in curing/drying time before baling because round baled hay can cures/dry in the bale in the field, as square baled hay must fully cure/dry before it is baled or it will surly mold, or burn your barn down.

Relate how any article verifies the above garbage.

You don't bale green hay? Then you never made good hay.

I doubt you even farm, you just like to argue. The problem is some folks might give your opinions merit they don't deserve.

ALX

 

[Sir Loin]

ALX,
Re:

Relate how any article verifies the above garbage.

Read the articles!
And read my last post, posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:34 pm It's all there!

Re:

You don't bale green hay?

Yes I have.
Both in color and as in not ripened or matured and/or not properly cured.

What has you people so hung up on that statement? Is it my use of the word "day"?
Or,
Are you saying that the curing/drying time for round and square bales are equal?
Or
Other?

In 10 words or less make your case.
SL

 

[novatech]

ALX,
Re:

Relate how any article verifies the above garbage.

Read the articles!
And read my last post, posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:34 pm It's all there!

Re:

You don't bale green hay?

Yes I have.
Both in color and as in not ripened or matured and/or not properly cured.

What has you people so hung up on that statement? Is it my use of the word "day"?
Or,
Are you saying that the curing/drying time for round and square bales are equal?
Or
Other?

In 10 words or less make your case.
SL

Wrong, your advice may cause someone to burn up their barn.

Sorry I went one over.

Did you read the part about microbial effect?
Did you find any part of any article that refered to attempting to dry hay after baleing is called cureing?
Did you read about the effects on nutritional value?
Or did you only take things out of context,twist them and make them fit into a rediculous arguement?

Small rectangular bales should be baled at 20% moisture or less to keep molding and heating to a minimum.
Since large round or rectangular bales retain internal heat much longer than conventional bales, they should be baled less than 18% moisture.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Or did you only take things out of context,twist them and make them fit into a rediculous arguement?

Well put.

Good folks spend lottsa time trying to help others get going and learning the "art" of dry hay. And then there are folks who waste all of our time.

ALX

 

[Sir Loin]

Wrong, your advice may cause someone to burn up their barn.

Would you please tell me how a round bale can burn someone's barn down if it self combusts when the bale is 5 miles down the road in the middle of a field.
Or that same someone doesn't even own or lease a barn.

Chew on that for a while!
SL

 

[msscamp]

Wrong, your advice may cause someone to burn up their barn.

Would you please tell me how a round bale can burn someone's barn down if it self combusts when the bale is 5 miles down the road in the middle of a field.
Or that same someone doesn't even own or lease a barn.

Chew on that for a while!
SL

A lot of people prefer to store their hay in the barn, and they like to get the hay off the field ASAP so the bales don't kill whatever is growing under them - that's how! If they don't own a barn, then they lose the entire stack, and maybe a few corrals/outbuildings - depending on where they stack it and when they discover their hay is on fire.

 

[AngusLimoX]

ALX

You don't bale green hay? Then you never made good hay.

I'm confused here. What is the benefit of baling green hay (as in high moisture content) if there is a high risk of it catching fire? The hay I just baled was light green in color but the moisture content was 11% (a little too dry).

Sorry, semantics, regional vernacular. :lol:

I was referring to the colour.

Was your hay grass hay? Sometimes it is soo easy to let it get too dry ( lost nutrients ) in some conditions. But, once again, small squares stored in the barn keep their colour better than rounds in a barn. Don't ask me why.

ALX