mdmdogs3
Well-known member
from another thread ...
why will round bales cure in the field and square won't?Sir Loin":90l6jk30 said:
question regarding square vs round hay bales
- Thread starter mdmdogs3
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Caustic Burno
Well-known member
mdmdogs3":jnjk7k7e said:
Round bales will catch fire as well if the grass isn't cured. I have had it happen.
Texas PaPaw
Well-known member
mdmdogs3":23kumlgf said:
I believe that it is because round bales are not packed as tightly as square bales and can continue to dry slightly after baling. However as CB says they can also spontaneously combust if baled too wet. Just another 2 cents worth.
Re:
Because you can't leave square bales in the field or they will rot, so you place them under shelter and pack them tightly together, layer upon layer upon layer.
I think it has more to do with placing a large number of square bales tightly together so no air can penetrate to the center of the pile for curing.
Did I say that right?
Never had a round bale spontaneously combust, but then again I never baled green hay! :lol: :lol: :lol:
SL
Hummmm?
Because you can't leave square bales in the field or they will rot, so you place them under shelter and pack them tightly together, layer upon layer upon layer.
I think it has more to do with placing a large number of square bales tightly together so no air can penetrate to the center of the pile for curing.
Did I say that right?
Never had a round bale spontaneously combust, but then again I never baled green hay! :lol: :lol: :lol:
SL
Sir Loin":qpncxpsu said:
Leave round bales in the field long enough, and I'm willing to bet they will rot as well. Not to mention the fact that leaving any type of bale in the field for any length of time will kill whatever is under that bale.
AngusLimoX
Well-known member
mdmdogs3":1wxgui42 said:
If you bale hay, round or square, too wet , it will heat, it will mold, and it may combust.
The above statement is not accurate.
ALX
mnmtranching
Well-known member
The folks that put up a lot of hay are using preservatives. When the weather isn't favorable to dry the hay down to 15%. The preservative prevent heat and mold. The big sq bales are really nice. Stored inside so there is no weather damage, load and haul easy. They flake apart when the strings are cut into pieces you can handle.
MS,
Re:
The theory is that a round bale will shed water while a square bale will absorb water. And as the round bale is so large only the first couple of inches will rot and further protect the rest, while as the entire square bale will rot from the inside out as it absorbs water, consuming the whole bale.
Re:
And round bales only need to be moved to the side of the field without any further protection added as square bales need to be moved inside or covered.
Due to the drought in our area we are now feeding some two year old round bales that have been sitting in the field since they were baled. They have about a 6 inch rot around them but the rest is fine. You couldn't do that with a square bale because, if you could pick them up without falling apart, it would be completely rotten.
When I feed them as hay I raise the loader all the way up and drop them on their end and all the rotten part pops right off and then I roll the rest down a hill or put it in a hay ring.
When I use them as feed I simple drop the entire bale in the grinder, add some feed and grind away. The cows love it and nothing goes to waste.
SL
Re:
True, but so will a redwood tree.
The theory is that a round bale will shed water while a square bale will absorb water. And as the round bale is so large only the first couple of inches will rot and further protect the rest, while as the entire square bale will rot from the inside out as it absorbs water, consuming the whole bale.
Re:
True, but a round bale, as it sheds water, does not have to be moved before it rains, as do square bales, freeing up your time to do more baling before it rains instead of moving and covering square bales.
And round bales only need to be moved to the side of the field without any further protection added as square bales need to be moved inside or covered.
Due to the drought in our area we are now feeding some two year old round bales that have been sitting in the field since they were baled. They have about a 6 inch rot around them but the rest is fine. You couldn't do that with a square bale because, if you could pick them up without falling apart, it would be completely rotten.
When I feed them as hay I raise the loader all the way up and drop them on their end and all the rotten part pops right off and then I roll the rest down a hill or put it in a hay ring.
When I use them as feed I simple drop the entire bale in the grinder, add some feed and grind away. The cows love it and nothing goes to waste.
SL
Re:
Fact: Round bales were not meant to be stored in a barn, unless you use the very same criteria as to moisture content and proceedure that you would use for square bales.
Round baling was developed for storage outside with at least a foot of air space all around them so they can finish curing. When you pack them all together tight in a barn you are just as likely to cause a fire as you are with square bales.
If you are going to store round bales in a barn, let them cure for a few days in the field, then check them before putting them in any building.
To check them, pick the wettest part of your field and put your hand into the center of a bale and feel for heat.
If it is hot to the touch, don't put them inside, let them cure some more in the field.
If it takes over 3 days for you to detect no heat, you are baling your hay too soon after cutting. Your baling hay while it is still green, and that's a NO NO!
SL
Sounds to me like someone needs a lesson on when to bale and when not to bale.
Fact: Round bales were not meant to be stored in a barn, unless you use the very same criteria as to moisture content and proceedure that you would use for square bales.
Round baling was developed for storage outside with at least a foot of air space all around them so they can finish curing. When you pack them all together tight in a barn you are just as likely to cause a fire as you are with square bales.
If you are going to store round bales in a barn, let them cure for a few days in the field, then check them before putting them in any building.
To check them, pick the wettest part of your field and put your hand into the center of a bale and feel for heat.
If it is hot to the touch, don't put them inside, let them cure some more in the field.
If it takes over 3 days for you to detect no heat, you are baling your hay too soon after cutting. Your baling hay while it is still green, and that's a NO NO!
SL
novatech
Well-known member
Sir Loin":3exyu4uz said:
What you are suggesting does not relate to hay, but to a compost pile. At first I thought you were just pullling everbodys chain, but now I beginnig to beleave your serious.
Where in the world did you acquire this info.? The fire department in my area has to go out to put out fires every year, out in the feild not in the barn, because of people that do what you are suggesting. When hay gets hot it is not cureing, it is decomposing. The more air that is allowed to get into the bale the faster it will rot when moisture is present. That is why we turn compost piles, or blow on a fire, to add oxigen.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
If you got a hay bale that's to hot for the touch. For sure it's rotting not curing.
But on the other hand, in all my day's of ranching and baling hay I've never heard of a round hay bale catching fire in the field. They just heat and rot.
But on the other hand, in all my day's of ranching and baling hay I've never heard of a round hay bale catching fire in the field. They just heat and rot.
AngusLimoX
Well-known member
novatech":8mj6gk5w said:
This guy ain't right nova. My BS meter is goin off the scale on him.
You'll are taking what I said out of context.
What I said was:
Re:
It is exactly the very same process in hay as it is in a compose pile that causes spontaneously combustion.
Re:
NO, what they are responding to is a bale that caught fire, most likely from being baled to tight, green and/or wet in a hot dry climate.
If you are suggesting a bale can catch fire just by being exposed to air, the problem is not with the exposure to the air but rather by the cause of the heat that starts the burn.
Re:
I'll do some research and get back to you on this.
SL
What I said was:
Perhaps I should of said: If it is warm to the touch, don't put them inside, because they may continue to get hotter and cause your barn to burn down. Let them remain in the field until they reach ambient tempiture or combust away from buildings, homes and or machinery etc etc.
Re:
Now my BS meter is going off.
It is exactly the very same process in hay as it is in a compose pile that causes spontaneously combustion.
Re:
From what that I am suggesting? Checking the bale?
NO, what they are responding to is a bale that caught fire, most likely from being baled to tight, green and/or wet in a hot dry climate.
If you are suggesting a bale can catch fire just by being exposed to air, the problem is not with the exposure to the air but rather by the cause of the heat that starts the burn.
Re:
From every round baler salesman and county agent that ever came around promoting round bales.
I'll do some research and get back to you on this.
SL
Re:
Re:
It's mostly caused when they are packed to tight to make tonnage not quantity and baling to green to make time. And location has a lot to do with it due to temp. and humidity levels.
Plus it's hard to know when to adjust the baler for outside temp and humidity when you're sitting in an air conditioned cab listening to the radio. :lol:
SL
Not not really. Well, maybe to some slight degree.
Re:
Yes it does happen.
It's mostly caused when they are packed to tight to make tonnage not quantity and baling to green to make time. And location has a lot to do with it due to temp. and humidity levels.
Plus it's hard to know when to adjust the baler for outside temp and humidity when you're sitting in an air conditioned cab listening to the radio. :lol:
SL
AB,
Re:
Is there a gage for this?
In some parts of the country it may be necessary to rake a second time just to roll it over and give the bottom a chance to dry so you can bale it.
And the moisture levels will not necessarily be the same in all parts of the field (wet spots and shaded areas, hills and valleys) or time of day (heavy dew in the morning and dew in the late afternoon and evening) in many parts of the country.
All of the above must be taken into consideration and the baler adjusted accordingly whether it be a round or square baler.
SL
PS Anyone on here ever bale using a block and needle?
Ever heard of it?
Re:
True, but how do you measure the moisture levels as a %?
Is there a gage for this?
In some parts of the country it may be necessary to rake a second time just to roll it over and give the bottom a chance to dry so you can bale it.
And the moisture levels will not necessarily be the same in all parts of the field (wet spots and shaded areas, hills and valleys) or time of day (heavy dew in the morning and dew in the late afternoon and evening) in many parts of the country.
All of the above must be taken into consideration and the baler adjusted accordingly whether it be a round or square baler.
SL
PS Anyone on here ever bale using a block and needle?
Ever heard of it?
novatech
Well-known member
Sirloin;
By makeing your bale loose you are not keeping the bale from rotting or decomposeing. You may be keeping the internal temperatur down low enough to prevent combustion. Moisture in hay is a no no regardless if is green or just wet from dew.
I would like to add to this, the better quality,higher protien hay will decompose at a faster rate than low quality hay. The reason for this is that moisture, protein (nitrogen) and air feed the microbes that cause the heat build up in tight bales. Also by makeing loose bales you are doing just the opposite thing you want to overcome. The looser the bale, the more bales, thus the more time. Then you top it off by ending up with a lower quality hay which I will assume you spent a lot of money on fertilizeing. And then, like most I have seen, leave it out in the rain where it will furthur decay into useless pile of filler. And wonder why you have to supplement after spending all that money and time makeing good, high quality hay.
It has become apperant that you are stuck on this. I will suggest at this time that you do a lot of research, Google, and get back with us. If you find out that I am wrong on anything I have stated please let me know. I have been corrected many times before. I am an old dog that likes to learn new tricks.
By makeing your bale loose you are not keeping the bale from rotting or decomposeing. You may be keeping the internal temperatur down low enough to prevent combustion. Moisture in hay is a no no regardless if is green or just wet from dew.
I would like to add to this, the better quality,higher protien hay will decompose at a faster rate than low quality hay. The reason for this is that moisture, protein (nitrogen) and air feed the microbes that cause the heat build up in tight bales. Also by makeing loose bales you are doing just the opposite thing you want to overcome. The looser the bale, the more bales, thus the more time. Then you top it off by ending up with a lower quality hay which I will assume you spent a lot of money on fertilizeing. And then, like most I have seen, leave it out in the rain where it will furthur decay into useless pile of filler. And wonder why you have to supplement after spending all that money and time makeing good, high quality hay.
It has become apperant that you are stuck on this. I will suggest at this time that you do a lot of research, Google, and get back with us. If you find out that I am wrong on anything I have stated please let me know. I have been corrected many times before. I am an old dog that likes to learn new tricks.
