Question on Supplementing a newborn - farmerjan

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

12 year old cow. Calf only getting colostrum out of 1 front quarter. We tried and could not open them up. Got vet out. Said both rear quarters were blind and the other front quarter was full of "stones". She worked & worked on it. Got it flowing good, but plugged up each time. Gave up and said IF calf works on it, it may open up. Gave calf a full bottle of colostrum replacement.
So, this is potentially a really valuable heifer calf. I have other full sisters in the herd. Big calf for most of you, weighed 98# (very normal weight for my mature cows). Doing great, but, she won't grow well on 1 quarter. I am giving her a bottle of milk replacer in the mornings.
Question: is this enough? My thoughts are if I was bottle raising her, she would get two bottles a day. Surely, she is getting 1 bottles worth from mom's 1 teat??? Cow has been a heavy milker raising very big growthy calves.
Obviously, I won't be breeding the cow. My plan would be to wean her at about 3 months old.
Anyone got more advice? Would like to hear from farmerjan and anyone else's opinion.

 

[TCRanch]

If the calf is still getting at least something from the one teat and mama is otherwise doing her job, I've had similar situations where I left the calf with mama, primarily to socialize her with the herd and for protection, and supplemented with a bottle. This takes time and training - for both mama & calf. I would come prepared with at least 1 bottle 3 times a day the first few weeks. Calf already knows the bottle is the primary source of nutrition and will eat as much as it needs, goes back to mama. Upped the bottles as I felt necessary and slowly introduced the calf to supplemental food, mainly 20% protein cubes, calf starter & either high quality alfalfa or brome. Key is getting mama on board with "sharing" her calf with you but she generally knows she's not producing enough for her calf (at least it seems that way) and additional cubes for mama always helps. I continue to up the amount of bottles as the calf grows - it'll let you know if it's hungry. BTW all but one of my calves were heifers, ended up retaining them and they're awesome mamas!

 

[MurraysMutts]

About 9 months ago I had almost the same situation. Had a mama with 1 good quarter. Vet said 2 were working but we never got more than a couple squirts outta that second one at home. We would get a few squirts then nothing..... Had the calf on mama for about a week and that calf went downhill FAST!
I got a bottle in her. Did that for about a week and finally just pulled her off mama. She was not doing well. Turns out, even tho that 1 quarter was working, it wasn't producing much either. This was not a 12 year old. She was 7.
Fate gave me a mama that lost her calf. Hard pull, presented rear feet first.
I slung the placenta over that calf and shoved her in the pen with mama. Like a duck to water!

I guess I'm just trying to say, if u do this, watch that calf like a hawk!
Best wishes for u guys

 

[5S Cattle]

I'd try to find someone w a nurse cow. I paid a guy $500 a couple years back to raise a f1 tiger heifer on his nurse cow because the heifer she came out of didn't want anything to do with her. Worked out well

 

[Silver]

You might consider taking some duct tape and tape the two blind teats up out of the way. That way the calf wont waste time on them, and it may have a better chance of getting the other front one opened up nicely.

Edit to add: I've done this with larger extra teats before, but not on any of the 4 actual teats. It may be impractical

 

[bird dog]

I would leave the calf with the dam but give the calf what it needs like it was a bottle calf. The calf will let you know if it is getting enough. They seem to do much better staying with mom even if she can't feed. The wife and I raised one this way. The calf would see us coming and run towards us. The mom would follow and stand patiently aside to let the calf drink. The calf would finish and they would both return to the herd.

After a few weeks we didn't worry if we missed a day or three. We got the calf started on one of those small creep feeders and weaned it off the bottle after a couple months. It wasn't a big deal to feed the calf in the field as I would go out every evening to check on them anyway.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Silver - the calf isn't messing with the rear quarters at all. She is hitting both front ones. I am convinced she is getting "some' from the blocked quarter.
Bird dog - yes, I am leaving her with dam. Right now, they are confined to barn & a small lot. She comes running for her morning bottle. Fat & sassy.
Appreciate all the comments. I have never faced this before, so wanted to know others thoughts. So far, the method I chose seems to be working. I may have to increase the number of bottles, but for now 1 seems adequate. I don't want to "fill" her up because I want her to push the limit on what the cow is producing, so maybe she will increase production. This is a Simmental and she is a heavy producer. I will get a picture, just been jammed up calving, but down to a snails pace now. Only 2 late ones and next 6 due the 16th. I know I don't have a lot of calves compared to a lot of you, but for my "system", weather, and facilities, I have been over-maxed out.
My plans will be to wean her early.
She is out of a sire that no one else uses and is a full sib to the 2 yr old c/c pair that won Supreme in the All Supreme NY Show last year. I have a 3rd full sib that is a 2-yr old this year with a heifer calf going into the Stars & Stripes Sale this May. So, I know what this heifer "should" be and am excited to have a replacement for the one I have committed to sell.
All the heifers by this bull so far have been top notch and easily made my show string. Which, in my world, means top dollars.

 

[Nesikep]

I don't know if your vet did, but i'd give oxytocin when I'm working on the plugged up quarter(s).. I've found that sometimes you can be working the heck out of the quarters but the cow just doesn't let the milk down without it.

I've been able to give a calf 2 mommas.. gets it's attention and some milk from one, and gets supplemental milk from another.. I don't have the time to bottle babies all summer, I will take my lumps and have a smaller calf if it means I don't have to bother with it

 

[Silver]

I've had a few cows with "stones" and the calves have always got them going. Persistent little devils. That other front quarter will be working in no time. 2 quarters just might do the trick.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Supplement with enough high fat milk replacer to get the growth you want.

 

[regolith]

She'll probably take what she wants off the cow first then come for her bottle, because fresh milk is nicer. I'd offer two bottles if she's sucking one dry, stick with the one if she's playing with it & healthy.

Six - eight litres a day is "enough" for a good-sized calf. But they'll drink a lot more than that if they can get it. Cows to a certain extent make up production in other quarters if they lose one, a 3/4 is almost as good as a 4-quarter but with only 1 quarter I don't know...

 

[gcreekrch]

Thinking you could can the mom and buy a milking Jersey for half what she is worth. A little time grafting and the hard part is over. Breed and sell the Jersey as a proven nurse cow when the calf is weaned.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Thanks all. Yes, we did give the cow Oxy.
Calf is working both front quarters. I know she was getting a little, but I think the one with stones is getting back to normal. Calf still loves her bottle, but doesn't "harass" me other times when I am near her, so I think she is getting filled up.
I am probably going to turn them out with the herd. I'm pretty sure she will continue to come to me for her morning treat.

 

[redcowsrule33]

I've had to do this many times, supplementing calves out on pasture while on dam, for multiple reasons, to salvage the long-term value of the calf. While they do become better bovine citizens, they tend to slack off on performance after a few months unless they have access to creep. Good pasture doesn't cut it. If she is a valuable calf, you need to feed the heck out of her so she can keep up. Plan on 3 quarts twice a day unless she is getting quite a bit from mom. Wean as soon as you have an inkling she is getting behind and get her going on a high quality calf starter (I swear by Kent Sweet Flakes) before you pull the bottle. It is time consuming and expensive but if her value is high enough it's worth not having to play catch-up later or have a dinky calf. My theory is you should not be able to tell the difference between a bottle calf and a pasture calf at seven months. I understand that in most commercial situations you spend more on the calf than it's worth, but in your situation give her the best chance you can.

It's best not to have to mess with it in the first place but life isn't like that unless you are willing to sell the wet calf to someone who wants a bottle calf and you cull the cow. Comes down to whether you want A calf or THAT calf.

Don't mess with a nurse cow. You could bring Johnes or leukosis in and that will really decimate the value of all of your heifer calves for years to come. :2cents:

 

[alisonb]

Jeanne, I don't like guessing much. Would be inclined to bottle feed the calf first thing in the morning and then seperate them for a couple of hours, then milk the cow and see what quantity you get out...that should at least give you an indication and you can make calculations from there.

Have you spoken to your vet about a teat cannula...he/she may just be able to clear that teat. It can be quite successful but the person must know what they are doing and have to be ultra hygenic. I have used the s/steel needles, you get them in plastic too.

 

[TCRanch]

Jeanne, I don't like guessing much. Would be inclined to bottle feed the calf first thing in the morning and then seperate them for a couple of hours, then milk the cow and see what quantity you get out...that should at least give you an indication and you can make calculations from there.

Have you spoken to your vet about a teat cannula...he/she may just be able to clear that teat. It can be quite successful but the person must know what they are doing and have to be ultra hygenic. I have used the s/steel needles, you get them in plastic too.

Yes! I have the stainless steel cannulas and definitely gloves, clean the bag/teats thoroughly, more diluted iodine than you think you need then sanitize the heck outta 'em with boiling water & alcohol. Vet walked me through step by step because I had to drain my girl's bag every day (and bless her heart, she was a trooper). But they're an amazing tool - and fortunately haven't had to use one in a long time.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Redcows - I totally agree with all that you said. This calf is extremely valuable and she WILL be pampered. I am making plans to flush the dam.
alisonb - had vet out immediately! I do have the stainless steel cannulas. Our vets are extremely savvy about udders - 95% of their business is dairy. Cleared out several stones, but there were more. Vet was pretty sure calf would clear them out and cow had LOTS of milk in both front quarters. Both quarter "appear" very even now. Calf spends equal time on them. Don't know if you took time to look at the video, but calf is doing super great.
I did turn her and dam out yesterday. She had a blast with her "siblings". I got her to follow me into the calf shed.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Oops - here's the video on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/Jeanne.SimmeValley/posts/10222384394506488?notif_id=1581252244944277&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic

 

[alisonb]

OMW...That is lovely to see, she's having a blast that's for sure. Glad it worked out for you, she's a fine looking girl

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I appreciate everyone's input. I generally "know" what I need to do, but wanted reinforcement!!! I have never run across this problem. Never had to supplement one with a mom.