Question concerning "composites" in the show ring

[showmomof2]

When you are registering a % breed in a show(district fair for us), how do you place her and who's responsibility is it to see that she is in the right class? Also, when entering is there usually instructions on how this will be handled? The reason I am asking is because we had a problem with one of our calves this weekend. There was no category for low percentage simmentals, so because we had simmental papers on her we entered her in the simmental show. The breed superintendant didn't check the papers. Then when my daughter showed her she won Grand Champion Simmental Heifer in the Jr division and Reserve Grand in the open division. Then people got wind that she wasn't a higher percentage or purebred and started throwing fits. To make a long story short, they "created a new class" for her after the fact (simmsolution) and made her grand over that. How could I have handled this when registering her for this show? This is our first year showing breeding stock and our 2nd year showing. We have overheard people referring to her as a "counterfit heifer" and gotten the dirtiest looks from the people that she beat. We want to be correct in how we enter our animals in the fair but we want to be t reated fair also. I was actually afraid they were going to keep her out of the championship drive, but thankfully they didn't. Also, some of the comments by the breed superintendents was that these breed registries were so desperate for money that they would register anything and that these club calves were bred to do well in the show ring and that is why they won? Any opinions on this welcome, but please keep it nice. I am already stirred up enough as it is.

 

[Chris H]

I'd say it's your responsibility to get her in the right class. Check the rules, and go by those rules. Most county fairs will not have classes for composites but if they have papers then they should be in a class for Any Other Breed. No papers, and they'd be in the crossbreed class.
Ask your officials how many animals it takes to get a separate class for your breed or composite, sometimes it takes as few as 3 head. That may be the best way to handle it in the future if you stay with that composite.
Thank the officials for coming up with the solution they did. Explain it was an honest mistake to anyone that brings up the subject.

 

[CPL]

I think that the whole breeding up to purebred, low % high %, half bloods, 7/8 bloods, 3/4 bloods, etc. etc. is a really big mess. I'm sure glad the Hereford Association didn't end up that way.

 

[showmomof2]

In hindsight I agree with AOB-but the rules were so vague-the officials said that the rules were more specific in last years fair book. When I checked last years book it was exactly the same as this years. There was no mention what so ever of percentages. In Arkansas jackpot shows and at the state fair, the composites are included in the rules and classes are there for them. They follow the main breed-which is what I was hoping for here but not the case. I was worried about her being in the purebred class and going up against purebreds, but she held her own pretty good. One good thing that came of this is that we were assured that the rule book would be changed next year to reflect the changes. They even tried to put a heifer in a steer class! I do realize that we are all human and make mistakes, but it got so out of hand this week.

 

[Third Row]

Can you post the exact wording of the rule book?

When you are registering a % breed in a show(district fair for us), how do you place her and who's responsibility is it to see that she is in the right class?

Virtually all crossbred heifers are going to end up in an AOB class unless there is a special class for them like Maintainer, Appendix Shorthorn, SimAngus, etc. There are a lot of big shows (I would almost say most majors in the South) where you wouldn’t have even been able to show her because she’s not a purebred.

Based on your explanation, you are at fault for not entering her in the right class, the author of the rule book is at fault for not being clearer regarding the rules, and the person checking the papers is at fault for not actually checking the papers. It sounds like an innocent mistake the just sort of blew up.

How could I have handled this when registering her for this show?

Enter her in an AOB class where she belongs and compete with the other composites. Based on you calling her a composite, I assume she’s not a SimAngus so there isn’t really a Simmi class for her in most shows.

Also, some of the comments by the breed superintendents was that these breed registries were so desperate for money that they would register anything and that these club calves were bred to do well in the show ring and that is why they won

They're right.

If you care about what your competitors think, go to them and personally explain the situation and apologize for not being aware of the rules of the breed. Tell them you’ll pay closer attention to it in the future. If you don’t track them down and explain it, they aren’t going to come to you for an explanation; they’ll make one up and spread it behind your back.

 

[Third Row]

I assume this is the show you are talking about?

http://www.ncadistrictfair.org/FallFair/Livestock/rules.html

10. Purebred Animals: All animals in Registered Breeding Beef classes, including Composites, must have registration papers. Purebred animals must be 75% or greater, depending on the respective breed associations; New for 2007 - Composite animals must be registered as low percentage with the respective breed association. Along with the 2007 Arkansas State Fair, these composite breeds will have their own breed divisions: (1) Charolais Composite, (2) Lim-Flex, (3) Maintainer, (4) Shorthorn Plus, and (5) Sim Solution. All other registered low percentage breeds not listed above will show in AOB (All Other Breeds) Composite. (Poultry, rabbits, and commercial and market classes are exempt).

 

[Jovid]

I think that the whole breeding up to purebred, low % high %, half bloods, 7/8 bloods, 3/4 bloods, etc. etc. is a really big mess. I'm sure glad the Hereford Association didn't end up that way.

Another reason I like my Red Polls

PUREBRED!!!!!

 

[AAOK]

I almost hate to get into this thread, but I just can't leave it alone. As a person who has been a Breed Superintendant many times, and even more often responsible for checking tatoos and verifying papers, I know how the rules are interpreted at the National level, and down to the county. The exhibitor is responsible for entering correctly, but mistakes often happen because of misinterpretation and mostly from lack of research or just not reading the rules. When this happens, it is up to the Breed Superintendant to make the correct call. At many County shows, the Supers. don't know the rules, or maybe the Board has not even considered a particular breed. If a Super. doesn't look at the registration papers, all blame for mistake should be off of the exhibitor. In this case, I would say the proper decision was made in the end, but I understand why people would be upset.

My advice is to always make sure that Tatoos, Birth Date, Date of Ownership, and Breed Classification are checked by the proper officials. Of course, if you have not entered correctly, the show officials always have the option of not allowing you to show.

 

[showmomof2]

Wrong district fair-we are in the northwestern district and their rules aren't spelled out like that. It just lists the major breeds and says nothing of composites. They just seem to copy the same book year after year. I would have loved to see that sort of breakdown-it would have prevented all of this! As far as I know there isn't a website for this fair-it is in Boone County, Arkansas. If I could post her papers I would. They are simmental papers, a little ways down it lists breakdown of breeds in her and next to that it has simangus. I wish I could see my original entry form for breed. I am thinking I put simangus by the breed but it has been awhile ago and I can't remember. Here is the way the rules are listed in the book.
Beef cattle-registered

1.Animals entered in the breeding classes must be registered in the exhibitors name.
2.Registration certificates must be available for inspection at the show and ear tattoos will be verified prior to showing.
3.No exhibitor will enter more than 2 entries per class.
4.All breeding beef must be owned by the exhibitor by July 15 of the current year.
5.All animals entered in the breeding classes are subject to mouthing. Animals found to be over age for it's class will be banned from show.

Then it lists the breeds: angus, hereford, limousin, simmental, shorthorn, brangus, any recognized breed.

I just assumed any recognized breed would be major breeds not listed-like charolais, gelbvieh, etc.

Thank you for all of your view points. We are new at this and thank goodness she was the only heifer we had problems with. Come to think of it, our maine was 75% and no one questioned her-she didnt' win best of breed. We did explain to the superintendents that it was an honest mistake on our part and the simmental superintendant said that he should have checked papers. makes me wonder if there were any more or if the others being shown were actually registered. Tatoos weren't even verified. Is this common or is our district fair behind times?

I have a picture of her posted under "county fair reserve champion" further down this page - it was taken a couple of weeks ago. Tell me what you think. Thanks

 

[Third Row]

Maines can be 3/4 and still show and purebreds, Simmis require 7/8 in heifers.

If you want to post her papers, just post her registration number and we can find all the info on the ASA website.

 

[showmomof2]

Thanks, AAOK-I am glad to hear from a superintendants point of view. I read the rules backwards and forwards several times. As you can tell by the post I made a minute ago, there wasn't any mention of anything. Are tatoos routinely verified with the papers? They never checked ours. All they were interested in was verifying birthdates. This isn't even a huge show. Oh,-we talked to the ag teacher from the school of the family that got so ugly. They caused problems at the county level, also. We explained everything to him and he knows it was an honest mistake. He was our ag teacher until last year and he even agreed that everything was blown out of proportion and could have been handled differently.