Quality of hay cut late

[TexasBred]

Exactly. The OP was talking about the difference in May/June hay and that all depends on the climate, species of grass, etc.

I don't have a lot of test data but IMO putting up quality hay (IE dry, no rain, etc) is right up there in importance with when the crop is in its "prime". With my limited test data for my area; mowing a field when it 100% in its prime only to have it get rained on and take a week to shake it out and dry it down is worse than having overripe hay that gets put up nice and dry in a short window.

Actually most research disagrees. If the hay is only rained on for a short time and allowed to dry properly it is better to cut it and bale it after it's been rained on than to wait until it is long past prime when it begins to lose protein and digestibility. Guessing what the weather is going to do will always be a crap shoot.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Guess it all depends on what the research classifies as "rained on a short time", for us UP here .5"+ is a light/short rain and .5" with our climate takes a couple days to dry back out and kills quality (our summer temps are usually in the 70's, humidity is very high, and wind is usually cool and damp). In the summer our average rainfall events are .75"+.

Now in Texas/Kentucky/Kansas/etc a "short rain" maybe .02" and will be dried out in a couple hours (high air temp, low humidity, dry wind), not really sure. We get nightly dew that measures that amount and if it "rained" that amount here I wouldn't even consider that rain.

 

[Texasmark]

TAMU and some PhDs around here got together and conducted some experiments in an attempt to get Texas out of the "cotton syndrome", a condition where our ag. productivity had dropped to low levels due to over production of cotton for too many years with no consideration for the soil quality . Plant life cycle was part of the experiments that were made at the Agricultural Research Station at Renner, TX. back in the 60's. I have a hard bound copy of their published experiments.

The rule is to cut in the boot, especially on things like Sudan-Sorghum cross annual plants (preferred hay production plant for cattle feed around here) ,defined as when you first see the end of the stem start to bulge with the seed head. Cutting then is the end of growth cycle and plant vigor. At that point it changes it's chemical structure and turns to flax and seeds with significant drop in protein and digestibility. Cutting earlier reduces quantity thus reduces profitability for the harvesting effort even though desirable elements would be slightly higher.

On things like Coastal Bermuda, experiments indicated that cutting at 30 day intervals produced the most protein.....from a personal standpoint, that's not economically practical so I take a slight reduction in protein for some volume.

That's my take on it.

 

[TexasBred]

Guess it all depends on what the research classifies as "rained on a short time", for us UP here .5"+ is a light/short rain and .5" with our climate takes a couple days to dry back out and kills quality (our summer temps are usually in the 70's, humidity is very high, and wind is usually cool and damp). In the summer our average rainfall events are .75"+.

Now in Texas/Kentucky/Kansas/etc a "short rain" maybe .02" and will be dried out in a couple hours (high air temp, low humidity, dry wind), not really sure. We get nightly dew that measures that amount and if it "rained" that amount here I wouldn't even consider that rain.

No it doesn't dry out that quickly but will be ready in a couple of days if you run a tedder over it to speed up drying. But I do understand your problem with the lower temps. and high humidity. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.

 

[BFE]

We ran into this problem this year with our triticale. It developed earlier than normal, so we were cutting in April. Had a three day window, needed four. We got half baled and wrapped (barely) and lost the other half when it rained for two weeks. Now which would be better, letting it stand and getting something or the big fat zero we got? That's the problem with listening to the University, if you shoot for the ideal every time in the real world, you're going to come up empty about 75% of time. I say having hay at lesser quality is better than watching it mold in the field, every time. Cows can't eat University research, but they can eat lower quality hay.

 

[TexasBred]

We ran into this problem this year with our triticale. It developed earlier than normal, so we were cutting in April. Had a three day window, needed four. We got half baled and wrapped (barely) and lost the other half when it rained for two weeks. Now which would be better, letting it stand and getting something or the big fat zero we got? That's the problem with listening to the University, if you shoot for the ideal every time in the real world, you're going to come up empty about 75% of time. I say having hay at lesser quality is better than watching it mold in the field, every time. Cows can't eat University research, but they can eat lower quality hay.

He// they can eat paper too but it doesn't mean it has any nutrition in it !!!! But as I said "It will make a turd" and that's all some look for. Universities simply give you information. They don't force you do use any of it. Do it they way you want, just don't complain and poor looking cattle and slow growing calves. Did you do any research to see if the hay on the ground that was rained on two weeks was really lesser quality than any hay that was cut 2 weeks past prime.

 

[u4411clb]

I agree with the person that said the month doesn't matter. Some years hay reaches its peak in early May sometimes first week of June. I will say that this year in North Alabama the people that cut in mid May got almost nothing as far as tons per acre. I mean it wasn't worth the gas spent driving across the field in what they got in return. But those that waited to the first of June got allot of hay maybe not as good but the amount tripled or quadrupled those that cut early. Now it may not be as good as the hay cut early but I would rather have our June cutting than our friends that cut in May at the "right" time.

 

[u4411clb]

Those that cut early I will say have Johnson grass and strangely enough clover that is ready to cut right now and ours is about 2 week out. Bermuda is ready to cut now but it has been raining almost every day. So each yer is so totally different you have to play it by ear and experience.

 

[BFE]

We ran into this problem this year with our triticale. It developed earlier than normal, so we were cutting in April. Had a three day window, needed four. We got half baled and wrapped (barely) and lost the other half when it rained for two weeks. Now which would be better, letting it stand and getting something or the big fat zero we got? That's the problem with listening to the University, if you shoot for the ideal every time in the real world, you're going to come up empty about 75% of time. I say having hay at lesser quality is better than watching it mold in the field, every time. Cows can't eat University research, but they can eat lower quality hay.

He// they can eat paper too but it doesn't mean it has any nutrition in it !!!! But as I said "It will make a turd" and that's all some look for. Universities simply give you information. They don't force you do use any of it. Do it they way you want, just don't complain and poor looking cattle and slow growing calves. Did you do any research to see if the hay on the ground that was rained on two weeks was really lesser quality than any hay that was cut 2 weeks past prime.

Two week rained on hay molds around here. Feed that too them vs. lower quality and tell me what you have then. Over time, tell me that lesser quality 100% of the time is worse than top quality two years out of three. Cows around here like to eat every year.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Did you do any research to see if the hay on the ground that was rained on two weeks was really lesser quality than any hay that was cut 2 weeks past prime.

Not sure about his climate. But UP here after hay gets rained on steady for even a few days it gets very moldy very quick and it isn't edible. And yes I've had plenty of it tested over the years and had the lab tell me a few times "DO NOT FEED".... So now after a couple days of rain on cut hay I just take the rotary mower and mulch it up.

 

[BFE]

We ran into this problem this year with our triticale. It developed earlier than normal, so we were cutting in April. Had a three day window, needed four. We got half baled and wrapped (barely) and lost the other half when it rained for two weeks. Now which would be better, letting it stand and getting something or the big fat zero we got? That's the problem with listening to the University, if you shoot for the ideal every time in the real world, you're going to come up empty about 75% of time. I say having hay at lesser quality is better than watching it mold in the field, every time. Cows can't eat University research, but they can eat lower quality hay.

He// they can eat paper too but it doesn't mean it has any nutrition in it !!!! But as I said "It will make a turd" and that's all some look for. Universities simply give you information. They don't force you do use any of it. Do it they way you want, just don't complain and poor looking cattle and slow growing calves. Did you do any research to see if the hay on the ground that was rained on two weeks was really lesser quality than any hay that was cut 2 weeks past prime.

Two week rained on hay molds around here. Feed that too them vs. lower quality and tell me what you have then. Over time, tell me that lesser quality 100% of the time is worse than top quality two years out of three. Cows around here like to eat every year.

I'm not saying the University doesn't have merit. I'm just saying the U always makes recommendations that involve perfect conditions, not real world conditions. Sorry if I offended you and the world of academia.

 

[dun]

Those that cut early I will say have Johnson grass and strangely enough clover that is ready to cut right now and ours is about 2 week out. Bermuda is ready to cut now but it has been raining almost every day. So each yer is so totally different you have to play it by ear and experience.

That's the point that a number of us have tried to make. Depends on the weather as much as the grass. We have fescue and have cut it late june and also early may. One year we cut the prettiest hay in mid may. Then the rain started. A half inch the day we had planned on baling, then a dry day then another half inch. It ended up being tedded I don;t remember how many times but it was cut for 10 days before it finally dried enough to bale.

 

[Rafter S]

Weather and climate sure make a difference. I remember being in Oklahoma years ago and they were baling at night. As I understood it, during the day the humidity was so low that the leaves would crumble. Here we can't start before about 11:00 am. Before that there's too much humidity and the hay will spoil.

 

[TexasBred]

I'm not saying the University doesn't have merit. I'm just saying the U always makes recommendations that involve perfect conditions, not real world conditions. Sorry if I offended you and the world of academia.

Oh I wasn't offended at all and I'm sure academia was not as well. Even they understand that simply owning the book doesn't make them more intelligent. :shock:

 

[TexasBred]

We ran into this problem this year with our triticale. It developed earlier than normal, so we were cutting in April. Had a three day window, needed four. We got half baled and wrapped (barely) and lost the other half when it rained for two weeks. Now which would be better, letting it stand and getting something or the big fat zero we got? That's the problem with listening to the University, if you shoot for the ideal every time in the real world, you're going to come up empty about 75% of time. I say having hay at lesser quality is better than watching it mold in the field, every time. Cows can't eat University research, but they can eat lower quality hay.

He// they can eat paper too but it doesn't mean it has any nutrition in it !!!! But as I said "It will make a turd" and that's all some look for. Universities simply give you information. They don't force you do use any of it. Do it they way you want, just don't complain and poor looking cattle and slow growing calves. Did you do any research to see if the hay on the ground that was rained on two weeks was really lesser quality than any hay that was cut 2 weeks past prime.

Two week rained on hay molds around here. Feed that too them vs. lower quality and tell me what you have then. Over time, tell me that lesser quality 100% of the time is worse than top quality two years out of three. Cows around here like to eat every year.

Actually the way you explained your method you have one year they get no hay. All hay is molded to some extend and I've seen cattle eat a lot of hay that looked rotten and smelled it but they loved it.

 

[BFE]

He// they can eat paper too but it doesn't mean it has any nutrition in it !!!! But as I said "It will make a turd" and that's all some look for. Universities simply give you information. They don't force you do use any of it. Do it they way you want, just don't complain and poor looking cattle and slow growing calves. Did you do any research to see if the hay on the ground that was rained on two weeks was really lesser quality than any hay that was cut 2 weeks past prime.

Two week rained on hay molds around here. Feed that too them vs. lower quality and tell me what you have then. Over time, tell me that lesser quality 100% of the time is worse than top quality two years out of three. Cows around here like to eat every year.

Actually the way you explained your method you have one year they get no hay. All hay is molded to some extend and I've seen cattle eat a lot of hay that looked rotten and smelled it but they loved it.

If you get two weeks of hard rains here there is nothing left to put up. I'm not sure what goes on in your part of the world weather wise, your soil types, etc. In most of the fescue belt with heavy clay you can have practically nothing left, and what is left creates clouds of black mold when you can finally drive across it later. Total loss, not just an aggravation. If you time it wrong, and that clay gets saturated under that cut hay, you're screwed, end of story. Once again, how many lost crops are worth sacrificing to get the perfect timing?

 

[Texasmark]

My Dad and Grandpa made hay once a year as do most in my area, fertilized in the spring or sometimes fall and nitrogen in the spring, made all the hay they needed for the year in one cutting. Grazed it later in the summer or stockpiled for the fall. They moved on to other projects the rest of the summer.

I think you are assuming too much. If that's a guys project, selling horse hay, or running a dairy or perhaps a feedlot situation that's great. I don't think a beef cow requires that high of a quality to get by. You'd have a coronary seeing what's fed here. The guys in this area are not putting in more than what we have to really to keep cows fed. The exception is farmers who don't really watch the inputs too close or guys who are really using cows for the deductions/land acquisition deductions. They are not making money with it.

Plenty of that around here. Haven't seen any cows dieing from malnutrition and calving season is usually good; don't do a head count, but in the spring, plenty of little imps running around. The ag. schools talk about max this and max that. One of the problems I have is following the max. Coastal Bermuda is said to be highest in protein in 30 day cutting cycles. You know how much growth you get in 30 days on generally managed hay patches? About 4" over your stubble. You know how many bales/acre that makes? You know how much all that tractor and equipment stomping on your plants does for the "good" of your plants in those short cycles and what the baling costs are as compared to letting it go for 60 or so?

I know that cutting stimulates growth but....... Other thing is the weather. I have been wanting to get into my Bermuda patch all year and not there yet. Early on we had a weather window where I got my Sudan-Sorghum patch cut but the Coastal patch wasn't ready. It's ready now but the weather isn't. I'll get it when I get it.

 

[TexasBred]

Again, location and weather has a lot to do with it. Ideal time between cuttings for coastal is actually around 21 days. Fertilized hay will grow plenty in that time and you'll have prime hay. Maybe not the volume you want but much better quality than hay cut long past prime. Once lignin begins to develop within the cell walls digestibility drops dramatically and quickly.

 

[M-5]

26 day old common