Purebred Angus bulls without papers

[jscunn]

Branded,
What are you missing? You talk like your bulls are the best out there, what vince is trying to do is get you to prove it. Then you can talk the talk..

The major reason you need to take a bull to a bull test, Branded, is you will get a dose of humility. Everyone who has taken a bull to a test more than 2 years has gotten a dose. Heck at florida every year a group of skinny white bulls roll in and you think well I got those covered.. NOPE those green bulls eat and gain with everything there and beat most of them. If you are really talking to all those people ignore most of them and listen to the people that spend money with you, ask them what they need dont tell them. Then figure out if what they need is the direction you want to go. Everything else is just people blowing smoke up your....

Midland ? :roll: Spend some years playing down here in the minor leagues learning what it takes to make a good bull test bull before you roll up to the big leagues.

 

[jehosofat]

You need to get in the movie business, you sure are entertaining.

 

[Midtenn]

An eating contest?

His guys are seasoned pros.

Dares never turn out well, but let me think about this. I have a few right now that might work, I would not want to use anything sired by Stone Gate in this throwdown if I agree to it. I think one of our high input SAV sons with top 1% RADG and YW might work.

As TT said, I would want to send down one of our boys that has a healthy appetite, maybe an International son

This is probably the most interesting thing I've heard yet on here.

You know what I'd like to see as a test? A herd of cattle with half bred to a bull or two from each of you and compare the calves... A bull's value is in his offspring really, not in how big he can get. I've noticed in my herd that some of the thinner, bonier looking cows have the meatier looking calves (I've seen this in several full sisters bred to the same bulls)

That's because she is a great mother. A bad momma cow will take care of herself first then let the calf get what's left. Those thin cows as long as they breed back (some don't) are money makers.

 

[Ebenezer]

I see the cattle genetics game exactly like this.

Right word choice. The GAME has been going on for decades. You have the gumption, the push and the verbage but you need the connections and the pay me/pay you tie in. You will pay in first. See if you get pay out on the next deal. Part of the learning curve.

If a person were to

If, If, If ... and I'm dreamin' of a white Chirstmas and hope the tooth fairy pays big.

What I'm trying to tell you is this, you are either raising genetics or you are raising carcasses. Genetics is far more profitable.

Hogwash, word play and double talk.

Hate to share this in some ways: over the years I have sold bulls to both repeat customers and new customers at a price they could afford. They were honest: they just sold cows or calves and that is all they had. Several have come back as much as 3 years later and paid me more or offered to pay me more because they realized the bull was better than they expected. I have issued papers years later after they had requested no papers at first. I turn down holding fees and deposits as I think their word is good and mine has proven good so far. Some folks come, look, talk, discuss and worry over data as in any sale. Others just ask the basics. I sell bulls as much as a year or more ahead to repeat customers. One guy asked 5 years ahead and came this month and picked up his "reserved" bull. He asked me to be ready in another 5 years or when needed. I select, hold and sell when they are ready to replace the last one. He saw his new bull as the bull was coming up the chute to load. Folks are happy as they send or bring their friends to buy bulls. At times I have even turned down money over the asking price because the guy thought he had put me out in some way. So, I guess I am saying that sales require truth, trust and service.

 

[bse]

Now to really stir the pot, and get things lit up around here.

I'm not so sure I would want to send my bulls to test. Right now they eat very expensive grain, alfalfa/ orchard grass hay that comes off the same field that Thoroughbred horses hay comes from, they have the best minerals I can buy, they have around 3 acres per bull to keep the stress down during development, and they have regular shots of multimin, and whatever else they need to have them at top performance.

Would a feedlot do this for them? Maybe they would, but my hunch is they would NOT. Why would I want to downgrade the nutrition in their development phase?

What I do like about the test is the consistency and the data feedback, but I already weigh at birth, weaning, and yearling and submit that to AAA, along with high density DNA testing and a BSE. I'm not sure what else I could be doing to improve them other than genetics. They are under a microscope as it is right now. I make sure I call the buyers and see if they have open cows, and they don't, that tells me that the BSE is confirmed. What am I missing other than being able to tell everyone that my bull is at test? Once those numbers are submitted to Angus, they can pretty much calculate RADG. If I did send them to test I would want to send them to Midland.

I'm sure I will hear all the counter arguments why I'm dumber than dog sh..t, but I'm open to hearing them.

Did you get BW on the President calves that you didn't get to pull blood on because of mud and mean mommas?

Your question do you think the feedlot would take good care of your bulls. No idea about any feedlot, but here at the test station, it's done through U T so vets are always there(not voted best anywhere just vets) checking the bulls. Not saying anybody would not be truthful, but the growth numbers are turned in from test station to AAA.
Just to be clear I think bulls are just a necessary evil, I'd take 100% females.

Would you have used Elation had Shaffs not bought an interest in XXP and produced him?
For me I think the Sinclair cattle from 7 yrs ago or longer were a great line of cattle.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

wait until these new kids with deep resources from their Father, or Grandfathers successful cattle operations are dictating how the business is run.

The odd's are against these new kids. The Grandfather builds it, the Father maintains it and the Grandson loses it. Third Generation fact.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Branded you seem like a sharp tack, just hard headed. Bulls on test have a 50 - 50 chance of testing like how you'd think they should. Numbers don't mean anything besides he might be able to achieve what his numbers say he capable of. I have no doubt one of your bulls would out preform one of ours in a northern environment. We don't have any fescue, but for less than a $1k it's worth it to me to see if you have anything that can produce under normal field conditions. Like wise I'm positive that one of your bulls can't compete with one of ours in Tifton or Florida under the conditions the bulls expected to thrive in. The heat, sand and poor pasture makes it hard to impossible for the folks from North Georgia to compete.
Some folks on CT put their bulls in the evaluation test just to see how they hold up and do compared to other breeders. When the test is over they bring them home and sell private treaty. Real world information is just another tool in the box.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Midland ? :roll: Spend some years playing down here in the minor leagues learning what it takes to make a good bull test bull before you roll up to the big leagues.

If I were to do an ET combo, the best to the best, and let a super healthy registered Angus cow raise that calf, how is that still a Branded calf from a genetics standpoint, wouldn't it be as if I do have a genuine article from the big leagues. Am I missing something?

I thought all major and successful breeders use ET and AI.

If I were trying to light the world on fire with homegrown bulls I would be concerned that I might be working for an extremely long time to get where I want to be.

Why would my SAV President son, from an Edella cow sired by MYTTY in Focus not be worthy of Midland?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded you seem like a sharp tack, just hard headed. Bulls on test have a 50 - 50 chance of testing like how you'd think they should. Numbers don't mean anything besides he might be able to achieve what his numbers say he capable of. I have no doubt one of your bulls would out preform one of ours in a northern environment. We don't have any fescue, but for less than a $1k it's worth it to me to see if you have anything that can produce under normal field conditions. Like wise I'm positive that one of your bulls can't compete with one of ours in Tifton or Florida under the conditions the bulls expected to thrive in. The heat, sand and poor pasture makes it hard to impossible for the folks from North Georgia to compete.
Some folks on CT put their bulls in the evaluation test just to see how they hold up and do compared to other breeders. When the test is over they bring them home and sell private treaty. Real world information is just another tool in the box.

I agree with a lot of what you said, and thank you for the compliment, but I have a ton more to learn.

I'm well aware that an AI son or daughter could be a dud, I just feel that AI can give you a leg up in the chances that animal is not a dud. I AI to get blood from top cow families into my herd where it would otherwise be impossible. The sires are important, but I'm taking a much closer look at the dams.

Right now I'm pondering whether or not to use Hoover .38 Soecial. He is from a Blueblood Lady cow family. I have some of those and they are VERY long lived cows that are super low maintenance with excellent feet. I'm not as concerned about who his sire was, as his dam.

Just some insight as to how I breed.

 

[CattleMan1920]

wait until these new kids with deep resources from their Father, or Grandfathers successful cattle operations are dictating how the business is run.

The odd's are against these new kids. The Grandfather builds it, the Father maintains it and the Grandson loses it. Third Generation fact.

That's right, because the 3rd gen is usually following Grandpappy's tired old methods

 

[CattleMan1920]

I see the cattle genetics game exactly like this.

Right word choice. The GAME has been going on for decades. You have the gumption, the push and the verbage but you need the connections and the pay me/pay you tie in. You will pay in first. See if you get pay out on the next deal. Part of the learning curve.

If a person were to

If, If, If ... and I'm dreamin' of a white Chirstmas and hope the tooth fairy pays big.

What I'm trying to tell you is this, you are either raising genetics or you are raising carcasses. Genetics is far more profitable.

Hogwash, word play and double talk.

Hate to share this in some ways: over the years I have sold bulls to both repeat customers and new customers at a price they could afford. They were honest: they just sold cows or calves and that is all they had. Several have come back as much as 3 years later and paid me more or offered to pay me more because they realized the bull was better than they expected. I have issued papers years later after they had requested no papers at first. I turn down holding fees and deposits as I think their word is good and mine has proven good so far. Some folks come, look, talk, discuss and worry over data as in any sale. Others just ask the basics. I sell bulls as much as a year or more ahead to repeat customers. One guy asked 5 years ahead and came this month and picked up his "reserved" bull. He asked me to be ready in another 5 years or when needed. I select, hold and sell when they are ready to replace the last one. He saw his new bull as the bull was coming up the chute to load. Folks are happy as they send or bring their friends to buy bulls. At times I have even turned down money over the asking price because the guy thought he had put me out in some way. So, I guess I am saying that sales require truth, trust and service.

Do you feel threatened with where the industry is headed? Many do.

Medallion taxi cab owners in NYC, never saw Uber coming. It was a game changer. It's presumptive to think your insulated in any business. You should always be looking to where your businesses could fall apart.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Almost 3000 views in a day on this thread. Something of value is being discussed, one would have to assume.

The big question is whose opinion is prevailing, because as we know many people read, but many don't post.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Almost 3000 views in a day on this thread. Something of value is being discussed, one would have to assume.

The big question is whose opinion is prevailing, because as we know many people read, but many don't post.

You probably don't want to start a poll on that.

 

[jehosofat]

Almost 3000 views in a day on this thread. Something of value is being discussed, one would have to assume.

The big question is whose opinion is prevailing, because as we know many people read, but many don't post.

You probably don't want to start a poll on that.

Bet his PM box is not overflowing with offers to buy bulls. But, like I said, it is entertaining. This sheit is just like WWE wrasslin'. :lol:

 

[Ebenezer]

Do you feel threatened with where the industry is headed?

No. I feel threatened by an avalanche of hog wash. :lol:

 

[sim.-ang.king]

wait until these new kids with deep resources from their Father, or Grandfathers successful cattle operations are dictating how the business is run.

The odd's are against these new kids. The Grandfather builds it, the Father maintains it and the Grandson loses it. Third Generation fact.

That's right, because the 3rd gen is usually following Grandpappy's tired old methods

"If you want to lose money in the cattle business, remember how grandpa did things. If you want to go broke in the cattle business, forget everything Grandpa did" from Isomade's sig quotating his dad.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Almost 3000 views in a day on this thread. Something of value is being discussed, one would have to assume.

The big question is whose opinion is prevailing, because as we know many people read, but many don't post.

You probably don't want to start a poll on that.

Bet his PM box is not overflowing with offers to buy bulls. But, like I said, it is entertaining. This sheit is just like WWE wrasslin'. :lol:

You might be surprised, I think this has been the most cost effective advertising I've ever done. Cow Country News and other publications haven't gotten my phone ringing like this has. Why do you think I remain on here? It's good for business.

Tell me where your operation's name is viewed thousands of times each day for free? With the help of people like you, ripping on me? A billboard with a picture of my cattle on 1-75 might be the only thing better.

I bet you would like to know who is pm'ng me, I have enough discretion and sense not to tell you, and I think the other members would appreciate that I choose that as my policy.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

wait until these new kids with deep resources from their Father, or Grandfathers successful cattle operations are dictating how the business is run.

The odd's are against these new kids. The Grandfather builds it, the Father maintains it and the Grandson loses it. Third Generation fact.

That's right, because the 3rd gen is usually following Grandpappy's tired old methods

No. It's because the 3rd generation has little or no work ethic. They weren't the ones who put the dream together.

 

[bse]

Dares never turn out well, but let me think about this. I have a few right now that might work, I would not want to use anything sired by Stone Gate in this throwdown if I agree to it. I think one of our high input SAV sons with top 1% RADG and YW might work.

As TT said, I would want to send down one of our boys that has a healthy appetite, maybe an International son

This is probably the most interesting thing I've heard yet on here.

You know what I'd like to see as a test? A herd of cattle with half bred to a bull or two from each of you and compare the calves... A bull's value is in his offspring really, not in how big he can get. I've noticed in my herd that some of the thinner, bonier looking cows have the meatier looking calves (I've seen this in several full sisters bred to the same bulls)

That's not a bad idea, I might be able to get one of my clients to agree to that. I would still want to bring the best that I can produce to this pizzing contest.

On a side note, there is a kid on Youtube that takes a full electric Tesla to the drag strip and cleans everyone's clock. He makes videos and bets the people he races against, and makes a lot of money off of them. He is using technology to go faster than all the muscle cars with nitrous and every old technology known. He REALLY makes the gas guys MAD! Yet they come back race after race for another beating, some are willing to blow up their engines just to try and beat him, but the electric wins every time. He goes down the track with his a/c blowing, they go down the track with their engines blowing. They confront him after the race, call him names, posture, but at the end of the day the kid wins every race because his car is more technologically advanced than those he is racing against. It's not even a fair competition, but like I said they keep coming back for more, almost as if they enjoy the abuse.

I see the cattle genetics game exactly like this. I don't want to be the producer trying to grasp on to old tech, and getting my clock cleaned by the new guy. I will be really old before long, and there will be new whippersnappers nipping at my heals, if you think I'm a pain in the azz on CT, wait until these new kids with deep resources from their Father, or Grandfathers successful cattle operations are dictating how the business is run. Better yet, wait until you are competing against a corporation full bore. Take a look at Boyd's, his son is deeply involved and he is a very young buck, just getting started, and he understands everything I'm saying on here as well if not better than me. Oh to be a teenager again, but with knowledge behind me. When I see that, I say to myself, "run faster Branded, run faster"

you dont seem to answer me very much, and im ok with that!!!!
I dont get out alot,, but isnt Boyds in KY? so what would anyone have to be afraid of????

 

[W.B.]

I challenge you to show me someone that owns only four cows and clears 750K a year.

If a person were to own the very top cow from SAV, Connealy, 44 Farms, and Baldridge. Their VERY BEST FEMALE, and those cows were used for embryo purposes only, and those eggs were fertilized with top AI sires using sexed semen. Daughters would be sold in addition to the embryos each year. I would bet that $750k could be achieved.

I believe I saw a Baldridge Colonel, 10 month old heifer sell in 2018 for $97k, here in Kentucky at that! Would you rather sell one of those or 50 heifers, or maybe 75 heifers. That one heifer took nearly no inputs whatsoever to raise, but look at the price she commanded.

I'm not raising 4 cows and making $750k a year at Branded, let me make that disclaimer. What I'm trying to tell you is this, you are either raising genetics or you are raising carcasses. Genetics is far more profitable.

Take computers for example, the hardware is cheap, usually Chinese junk, it's the software that is expensive, what runs the computer. In the computer industry, it's the software companies that reap all the rewards, not the people making the box. An Iphone itself is not too expensive to make, but the technology in it is why they sell for $1500 or more.

It's not to say that economy of scale cannot kick in, look at McDonald's. However, with that said, do you want to sell ribeyes or plain cheeseburgers? If you can sell enough cheeseburgers, and have the labor to make it happen, GREAT! But what if you only had limited resources, wouldn't you want to sell $100 steaks versus a $1 hamburger. I know I would.

Honestly what is holding you back? I am sure that you could buy any Angus cow in America for a price. Using your grand plan bankers should be jumping out of their chairs to lend you the money. Heck SAV just sold a clone to 4136 last week. One opportunity missed already.