Psychiatric drugs (revised). Opinions??

[IluvABbeef]

(Copied [and edited] from the H & N board
I just got a new topic from my teacher in one of my courses (An Sc 376 ;Animal Behaviour and Welfare) for a "class discussion" and couldn't help it but post on Cattle Today to see what you folks thought about this.

Anyway, here's part of what he said:

...the use of psychiatric drugs (antidepressants etc.) in animals. What do you think?

This question is a bit broad, so I'll slim it down abit to make things easier and more specific (sorry I didn't do this in the first place ). So, the question really is:

What is your take on the use of these sort of drugs on animals, specifically dogs, cats, horses, etc., to correct behaviour problems?

In other words: Do you think it ethical or not to use these drugs to curb bad behaviour? why?

I'm not looking for the types of drugs used in this sort of thing, just thoughts to generate a bit of a discussion on this, if you can find anything to say on it. But all opinions are apretiated on this

I hope that's a little better and helps a bit. Again, sorry I wasn't to clear like I shouldve been.

 

[msscamp]

What is your take on the use of these sort of drugs on animals, specifically dogs, cats, horses, etc., to correct behaviour problems?

In other words: Do you think it ethical or not to use these drugs to curb bad behaviour? why?

My personal thoughts are that, unless it's a case where the owner has made a genuine effort to understand the behavior, knows why the animal is behaving the way they are, and all attempts at behavior modification based on that understanding have failed, to use these drugs to curb bad behaviour is a cop-out. There are too many cases where the owner is not willing to put forth the time, effort, and thought required to find out what is behind the behaviour and correct it. I cannot imagine having to drug my animals in order to improve their behaviour because, in most cases, it isn't necessary.

 

[Vicky the vet]

I think that using SSRI's in small animals has merit. Say you have a dog which trashes your home everytime you leave--unless locked in a kennel. So you have two choices without drugs. 1) try to train out a behaviour which occurs only when you're not there or live with it or 2) euthanize the dog or give your problem away. Now there's a third choice....try to train AND give clomipramine and greatly increase the success rate. I've put too many dogs and cats to sleep for behavioural problems which drugs can and do treat, except the owners wouldn't be bothered...

Ethical to use them? Yes. But then, I do use them in small animals. Am I a peta person? Heck no!! But I personally believe that pets can be members of the family, especially to older shut ins, and deserve the best medicine the owners can give. Give them to food animals? No!! If the animal is not calm enough to show without them, then it's food. Easy answer for me...

 

[peg4x4]

I'd have given them to Marlo,if I'd known about them: She was a geneticly shy G.PyreneseX really pathatic..couldn't eat if I looked out the window and she saw me.....thought she hadn't been handled enough when I got her,but found it was a much greater problem...

 

[AngusSenorita]

I think its okay

We used some on my cat, she started peeing on anything I left on the floor, we did everything we could to stop it, a month of anti anxiety pills did the trick

 

[AngusLimoX]

I agree strongly with msscamp.

I would hate to see the day people who probably shouldn't have pets of any kind in the first place can access drugs to take the place of responsible ownership.

When I read Viki's post, I also agree, but to the extent that a qualified vet has determined that a prescription is necessary to alter the animals behaviour, the only other alternative being euthanasia. I think the use of those drugs should be that tightly restricted.

And if these drugs are narcotics, or have a "street" value, then you are creating a whole other set of problems if they are widely used on pets.( Junkies looking for pet owners houses to break into ).

I never knew some show animals were drugged, but it doesn't surprise me. I wonder how many have silicone implants, or use illegal hormones like in the Olympics! :lol: :lol:

 

[peg4x4]

I agree strongly with msscamp.

I would hate to see the day people who probably shouldn't have pets of any kind in the first place can access drugs to take the place of responsible ownership.

When I read Viki's post, I also agree, but to the extent that a qualified vet has determined that a prescription is necessary to alter the animals behaviour, the only other alternative being euthanasia. I think the use of those drugs should be that tightly restricted.

And if these drugs are narcotics, or have a "street" value, then you are creating a whole other set of problems if they are widely used on pets.( Junkies looking for pet owners houses to break into ).

I never knew some show animals were drugged, but it doesn't surprise me. I wonder how many have silicone implants, or use illegal hormones like in the Olympics! :lol: :lol:

The judges busted one dog for ear implants,and another for testicular implants(I swear it's true!!)



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[Alice]

I agree strongly with msscamp.

I would hate to see the day people who probably shouldn't have pets of any kind in the first place can access drugs to take the place of responsible ownership.

When I read Viki's post, I also agree, but to the extent that a qualified vet has determined that a prescription is necessary to alter the animals behaviour, the only other alternative being euthanasia. I think the use of those drugs should be that tightly restricted.

And if these drugs are narcotics, or have a "street" value, then you are creating a whole other set of problems if they are widely used on pets.( Junkies looking for pet owners houses to break into ).

I never knew some show animals were drugged, but it doesn't surprise me. I wonder how many have silicone implants, or use illegal hormones like in the Olympics! :lol: :lol:

The judges busted one dog for ear implants,and another for testicular implants(I swear it's true!!)
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:shock:

 

[Chuck]

The judges busted one dog for ear implants,and another for testicular implants(I swear it's true!!)

From a post on another board. http://neuticles.com/index1.html

 

[chrisy]

chuck....what will they think of next? :roll:
If a pet gets distraught over a certain time of year, like Guy Faulks night, where fireworks are going off most of the night, I agree a valium or equiverant can't harm to keep the pet calm, but not for normal bad behaviour, that needs to be checked in a training programme. I had a dog as a child that needed travel sickness pills, if Mom didn't give him any before we took him in the car, she had a horrid mess to clear up.

 

[AngusLimoX]

I think its okay

We used some on my cat, she started peeing on anything I left on the floor, we did everything we could to stop it, a month of anti anxiety pills did the trick

1 size 12 suppository will have the same effect and it is usually immediate. :lol:

 

[IluvABbeef]

I looked on the discussion topic, and got a response:

I think that using antidepressants on zoo animals is a good idea at a welfare stand point because it may improve their quality of life, given that it has the same neurological effects as in humans. But it may turn into an ability for pharmaceutical companies to test new drugs on animal subjects while profiting off the sale of these products.
Also antidepressants have many side effects; such as REM sleep and reproductive incompatence. In an endangered species lowering their ability to successfully mate and produce viable offspring could be catastrophic to a species.

Yeah, I also forgot to include zoo animals... :roll:

And good thoughts so far, keep em coming.

Okay, what do you lot think of this quote from one of the students that responded to the topic? Not that I want to interfere with what's being said so far...

 

[Lammie]

chuck....what will they think of next? :roll:
If a pet gets distraught over a certain time of year, like Guy Faulks night, where fireworks are going off most of the night, I agree a valium or equiverant can't harm to keep the pet calm, but not for normal bad behaviour, that needs to be checked in a training programme. I had a dog as a child that needed travel sickness pills, if Mom didn't give him any before we took him in the car, she had a horrid mess to clear up.

I have a dog that really gets upset at thunder, fireworks or gunfire. I had another dog that I had to put up all the trash cans up high in the house or she would turn them all over when I left. I know she did it because she was mad I didn't take her with me.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Maybe we just give them downers so they do nothing after we go to work, then we give them uppers when we get home to enjoy our pet!!

I never thought it could be so easy!

Peg, I was kidding! Ear implants??? ( I can understand the nuts, but ears??) :lol:

 

[peg4x4]

If the ears are supposed to stand up(German Shepard.G.Dane,Doberman) and the ear cartlage is too soft so the ear flops,a little silicone applied in the ear corrects the outer problem,doing nothing for the genetic problem....If the Judge finds out,you,the dog,and the kennel are all disqualifed and thrown out!!

 

[cmjust0]

If adult humans who couldn't speak to us did some of the weird things that pets sometimes do, we'd look to psychology first. Why does this person pee on the carpet instead of in the toilet?? Must be crazy.. Why does this person scramble around the house and tear things up when left alone or when it storms? Crazy, I guess.. Why does this person choose to ignore good food and be thin? Something wrong upstairs, I guess. And it sorta makes sense to look to psychology in those cases, where humans are concerned.

We have a dog that's thin and doesn't eat much.. We have another who was afraid of storms and freaked out when we left.. We also had a cat that peed outside the box..

Turns out, the dog which doesn't eat much is just that kind of dog. To her, the act of eating is what keeps her belly from being empty, but isn't something that she particularly enjoys doing. As human beings who enjoy eating good food, it can be hard to wrap our minds around that.

The dog which freaks when I leave and which doesn't like thunderstorms doesn't have a chemical imbalance; she was a stray. Freaking out was a learned behavior, and behaviors can be unlearned. When I leave now or when it storms, I put her in the crate with a few tasty treats. She now associates the formerly-bad-stuff with good stuff -- problem solved.

The cat that peed everywhere had struvite stones in her bladder and had begun to associate the litterbox with pain. Going elsewhere didn't necessarily help, but she knew that the litterbox would definitely hurt. We switched her to a 'urinary tract health' food (low magnesium) and reintroduced her to the litter box.. Once she realized that it wasn't actually the box that hurt her, she regained her natural preferance to pee there. Again, problem solved.

As for me, I approach problem animals by looking first to learned behavior, second to physical problems, and if I come up empty on those two, then I might look to mental problems. Usually it doesn't get that far.

 

[peg4x4]

Wonder what a bi-polor dog hears----BAD DOGbad dog baddogBAAAD DOOOG :lol:

 

[msscamp]

I would hate to see the day people who probably shouldn't have pets of any kind in the first place can access drugs to take the place of responsible ownership.

That's a very scary thought. I know of people who got a dog, but couldn't stand to have the fur from shedding on their furniture, so they shaved the dog. What is wrong with this picture?

When I read Viki's post, I also agree, but to the extent that a qualified vet has determined that a prescription is necessary to alter the animals behaviour, the only other alternative being euthanasia. I think the use of those drugs should be that tightly restricted.

I agree. A lot of bad behaviour is learned behaviour and, with a little brain work and knowledge, it can be unlearned without drugs.

I never knew some show animals were drugged, but it doesn't surprise me. I wonder how many have silicone implants, or use illegal hormones like in the Olympics! :lol: :lol:

I suspect that the answer to this question would absolutely amaze you!

 

[peg4x4]

All you gotta do is go back a few years and see what was done to Walking Horses in the name of "showmanship" also QHorses with deadened tails so they can't flip their tail to spoil the "tranquillity of the ride".

 

[john250]

(Copied [and edited] from the H & N board
I just got a new topic from my teacher in one of my courses (An Sc 376 ;Animal Behaviour and Welfare) for a "class discussion" and couldn't help it but post on Cattle Today to see what you folks thought about this.

Anyway, here's part of what he said:

...the use of psychiatric drugs (antidepressants etc.) in animals. What do you think?

This question is a bit broad, so I'll slim it down abit to make things easier and more specific (sorry I didn't do this in the first place ). So, the question really is:

What is your take on the use of these sort of drugs on animals, specifically dogs, cats, horses, etc., to correct behaviour problems?

In other words: Do you think it ethical or not to use these drugs to curb bad behaviour? why?

I'm not looking for the types of drugs used in this sort of thing, just thoughts to generate a bit of a discussion on this, if you can find anything to say on it. But all opinions are apretiated on this

I hope that's a little better and helps a bit. Again, sorry I wasn't to clear like I shouldve been.

My cat already looks at me like I'm an old gazelle at the water hole.
Will I put my cat on Prozac? I think not.