property rights question.

[jwhisperj]

Hello just hoping someone will be able to enlighten me on the rights the property owner has.

I figure I should tell you what is happening so you can hopefully help me understand my rights. Sorry for the length.
One of our neighbors has access rights for one road through our ranch to get to a another piece of his land. He unfortunately is a you know what kind of neighbor and can't seem to stay on the permitted path. He will take his four wheelers through the hay fields and go where he pleases. Another ranch that boarders our place came out one day and without knocking on my door, calling, or contacting me in any way came over and proceeded to move my horses out of the corral. I caught them up the road and asked what they were doing out here and she told me she was moving my horses out of her way because their bull got loose and they needed the corrals. She had moved three horses that were boarding here into the pasture with my other two and tried to catch my new horse to put him with the rest. I was furious to say the least and she got an ear full on moving someones livestock around. Anyway, she and her husband continue to ride, drive, and four wheel on this property with no access rights.

My question is if her cattle are loose does that give her the right to come onto our place and go where she needs or does she need our permission even to get her stray cattle? Is she trespassing?

What happens to her cows if she is not allowed to come here without permission? Do I round them up myself? Can I keep them or is that illegal? :lol:

What can I say to people who are on our place, without being (for lack of a better term) legally incorrect? I tried looking this up on the internet but I am horrible at searching stuff on the web.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and say your thoughts.

 

[dun]

Best way to get the straight skinny is to talk to your local sheriff. Not only should he be able to tell you the law but you'll know what he is willing to enforce. They're not alwasy the same thing

 

[jwhisperj]

Good idea. Should have thought of that, thanks.

 

[hillsdown]

Sounds like you are surrounded by a lot of self centered a-hole's.. I agree also with Dun as you need to have all your bases covered. They have no business being on your land at all besides that road, so the solution would be to fence it off and all that have to use it need to go in on the costs of it.

Good luck with everything.

Why the h@ll didn't they call you to see if they could actually use your corral before doing that dumb@ss thing? :? :roll:

Sorry, people around here have been p'ing me off lately as well. :x

 

[jwhisperj]

We do have it fenced, and my father inlaw and husband have been redoing all the boarder fences. There is also a county road through the place and so all people have to do is drive up over the cattle guards or use the gate.

Why she couldn't knock on my door is beyond me. Some peoples kids huh?
So I guess keeping her cattle is out of the question? :cry2:
I think I will call the sheriff tomorrow. His wife likes to ride her horse out hear. But she is pretty nice.

 

[Jogeephus]

I'm not taking up for these folks in any stretch of the imagination cause what they did was wrong and you definitely want to follow Dun's advice and get the scoop from the sherriff. But also you might want to back up and cool off some since these are your neighbors - ever so sorry as they may be. I also have a neighbor like this that I cannot stand. Its a personality clash that nothing in the world is going to fix. But he is my neighbor and I know the world is round so I'm careful what I say and I do bite my tongue quite often. Not surprisingly, he does not get along with any of his other neighbors and there are constant feuds between them. People can't understand how I can get along with him. In actuallity, I don't. I just give a wide berth to him and bite my tongue cause I think entering into a feud with him will ultimately hurt me in the long run. Whose to say my cows aren't going to jump the fence and eat up his crops. I'd rather this happen on a neighbor's property than an enemy's property if you get my drift.

 

[Jogeephus]

I'm not taking up for these folks in any stretch of the imagination cause what they did was wrong and you definitely want to follow Dun's advice and get the scoop from the sherriff. But also you might want to back up and cool off some since these are your neighbors - ever so sorry as they may be. I also have a neighbor like this that I cannot stand. Its a personality clash that nothing in the world is going to fix. But he is my neighbor and I know the world is round so I'm careful what I say and I do bite my tongue quite often. Not surprisingly, he does not get along with any of his other neighbors and there are constant feuds between them. People can't understand how I can get along with him. In actuallity, I don't. I just give a wide berth to him and bite my tongue cause I think entering into a feud with him will ultimately hurt me in the long run. Whose to say my cows aren't going to jump the fence and eat up his crops. I'd rather this happen on a neighbor's property than an enemy's property if you get my drift.

 

[jwhisperj]

You do have a very good point there. So far the only thing I have opened my mouth about is the horse thing since three of them weren't mine and if any of them got injured that is cash from my pocket.
You are right about if our livestock go over the fence better to be civil. Unfortunetly the inlaws and the neighbor are already at each others throats. He wants to subdivide but my father inlaw won't give him access. We also have folks come out thinking it is open range to hunt on, weird.

Thanks for the good advise to play nice and I will call just to see what is allowed. if folks asked it wouldn't be so bad.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Ok first off get out the access agreement and read it and call a lawyer. Document all damages done by these people, pictures work best, especially if you can catch them in the act.
Post your property with "No Tresspassing" signs.
A call to the Sherrif should give you some info.
Now entering onto your property and moving your animals without permission is in the act of tresspassing.
Now if their cattle get out and on your property call the brand inspector and then the sherrif's office. No you can't keep them or sell them. :cry2:
Do NOT round them up. Make the so and so's do the work, don't make it easy on them. They are the ones responsible to keep their own cattle in and you keep their cattle out.

Watch out for that new initiative they are trying to force through with the hunting issue. :devil2: :devil2:
I'm a little peeved about that right now so that is why I'm a little abrupt tonight.

 

[jwhisperj]

thanks for the advice. I am not to the point of taking legal action, just wondering if I have the right to tell them that if they can't stay on the trails and call in advance, then they will no longer be allowed on the place unless I call them to notify them of loose livestock.

As far as the hunting issue I have not yet heard about it. I'll see if I can find some info.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[pdfangus]

Personally I would fence off the right of way access so that they had to stay on the right of way. I hate idiots with four wheelers and no manners or responsibility.

I would fence it with as much voltage of electric fence as i could muster too.

The old saying about electric fence for livestock of .....

"Make the knees buckle and the eyes water" works pretty well for trespassers too.

I know one guy who had a neighbor like you describe and he put up a wall about eight feet high.
The wall was painted sheet metal, like building siding. He mounted the whole thing somehow on insulators.
He put a hoss of a fence charger on it. cut down on his neighbor problems considerably.

 

[Earl Thigpen]

I don't know what the range laws are in Montana so I would agree with I Luv and Jo about contacting the sherriff and an attorney.

There are several things you haven't told us. One, did you just recently buy this place? Two, what kind of arrangement did the previous owner have with these people? Three, did you buy the land from these people? Four, you mention this is a county maintained road across your property. Have you asked the county to fence the right of way?

Even open range (at least in Texas) does not give anyone carte blanche to drive willy nilly across your property. And it sure as heII doesn't give them permission to move your livestock out of your coral. That's called transpass and something the sherrif should be interested in.

I wouldn't put up an electric fence just yet. And if you do, put a barbed wire fence up first and then put the electric wire on your side of the fence. That way if someone gets zapped they shouldn't have been on your property in the first place.

I would be interested in the outcome of this. Please keep us posted. And be careful. These kind of people are jerks and capable of anything.

Good luck.

 

[mnmtranching]

I would 1st of all talk it over with your neighbors, if they are at all reasonable, you guys would come to an agreement. Probably the owners themselves might not know of the trespassing etc. Kids and their friends sometimes just take things for granted. The hunting without permission is probably done by the same people and their acquaintances. Joe is right, don't do things that will make long term problems.

 

[MikeC]

Sounds to me like you have a hard time confronting your neighbors assertively.

My neighbors would never come on my place without asking because they know what kind of guy I am.

Just the simple question(s)......."what are you doing on my place without asking" or "do you think I would come on your place without asking" will be sure to get the juices flowing.

Open a dialog and open it now before it escalates out of control and becomes anger.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Earl open range law here, is if you don't want the animals there, you fence them out.
Big debate a number of years ago about open range, Cows were eating the lawns in a subdivision, :lol: , they were complaining, well came out that the open range law was still in affect and if they didn't like the cows they had to put up the fence not the cows owners. It also does not mean they can go where they please either.

Now if they are driving everywhere and are not staying on the trail/road as part of the right of way access agreement then yes I would tell them that they are no longer welcome on your place.
Got a similar problem concerning right of way. Neighbors kid thinks it means he can hunt our place all he wants. Made a road through some grass we hay, got a surprise for him this fall.

 

[Auburn_Ag]

One of our neighbors has access rights for one road through our ranch to get to a another piece of his land.

As access rights, I am assuming you are referring to a Deeded Easement? If he has a Deeded easement it will specifies the rout he can ingress and egress across your property. Now having said that anything out side the boundary of the easement is trespassing. If at all possible you need to find the deed for that easement, if you don't have it; you can get at your county Probate Judge Office. You need them for two reasons, reason one is that if and when I went to talk to the Sheriff that you have legal documentation of your neighbors rights as well as yours. Also you need a copy of the easement on file at your house or office and read it carefully and figure out exactly what the easement is for. These days they make can make easement for a number of things, however the most common ones are for ingress and egress.

Jogeephus is right no mater how much of a bad taste it leaves in your mouth, they are still you neighbor. I must have your neighbors relative next to me!

I hope in time this all works out for you and if I can help, because I have to read easements from time to time, Please pm and let me know.

 

[ChrisB]

I would just tell them that you would appreciate it if they didn't drive through your hay field, etc. anymore. With 90% of the people, that will be the end of your problem.

 

[grannysoo]

Everyone should know that you don't drive on a hay field.

Dun gave great advice about contacting the sheriff.

I will say that I have a very low tolerance for tresspassing and an even lower opinion of "recreational" 4-wheelers. Meddle with my stuff or trespass on my land and you're going to have a bad day. Touch my fence, my cattle, my dog or my wife, and your day is going to get worse.

You might be greatful to see the law come out........

 

[Earl Thigpen]

Earl open range law here, is if you don't want the animals there, you fence them out.
Big debate a number of years ago about open range, Cows were eating the lawns in a subdivision, :lol: , they were complaining, well came out that the open range law was still in affect and if they didn't like the cows they had to put up the fence not the cows owners. It also does not mean they can go where they please either.

Now if they are driving everywhere and are not staying on the trail/road as part of the right of way access agreement then yes I would tell them that they are no longer welcome on your place.
Got a similar problem concerning right of way. Neighbors kid thinks it means he can hunt our place all he wants. Made a road through some grass we hay, got a surprise for him this fall.

I didn't think things were that much different in Montana than in Texas. As said previously, there's a few things that were not said. Best advice, like you mention, is contact a lawyer with the contract of sale and the sheriff for transpass.

I have one neighbor who thinks he can fish my stock tanks just about any time he wants. He even has (had) a trail worn out from my fence line to the pond. I caught him at the pond one day with a stringer full of fish and politely (well, mabye not so politely) told him he was on private property. He started to tell me he could fish there any time he wanted to since the government stocked the ponds. Bad mistake because, you see, the government did not stock the ponds, I paid for every fish in the pond. And I could prove it. And besides that, he should have asked permission to enter my property even if the government had stocked the ponds.
(I hate neighbors anyway :lol: )

 

[Brute 23]

:lol2: Glad I live in Texas...

Toughen up and get mean or talk to an attourney. ;-)

That is why we just randomly take guns out and pop off rounds,,, lots of rounds. We want neighbors to know at any time we could be shooting and in any direction.

Earl, that is trespassing. Texas says a fence line or vegetations line is a property divider. No special color paint every so far, no free range as long as you aren't hurting any thing, no need for a sign...