Profit from cattle?? Where is it?

[OhioRiver]

okay....clue me in what that is





[/quote][/quote]Alot of operations suffer from a common disease known as PPM.[/quote]

 

[Jogeephus]

I agree with Dun, you got to keep your costs down. There is no way you can spend a lot of money on a heifer and expect it to pay for itself. Just not going to happen.

Also, I think many people forget the most miraculous thing about a cow. That is, a cow can take plants that we otherwise would have to mow and turn them into a salable product. You don't have to feed them out of a bag like a pet. For the most part, they can fend for themselves and in many instances can do a better job of it without us meddling in their business.

 

[somn]

p!ss poor managment.

I'm 100% serious. I see ranchers selling calves light all the time when they could have put a pound of weight on for $.50 that they could sell for $1.15. But the only thing the see is that $.50 per pound leaving their pocket instead of the $1.15 coming back in.

 

[OhioRiver]

I do believe that. I do not want to fall into that category however. I do believe that their is money in my thoughts. I just have to hone in on the proper procedures. I don't want to quit my job to do it full time, but would be willing to try the ET options and see if I can get a headstart with genetics....I wonder how many embryos actually take or how many embyros actually never make good $B. I know I get influenced by the $ signs, but I know some cattle producers that I don't think know their butt from a hole in the ground.

p!ss poor managment.

I'm 100% serious. I see ranchers selling calves light all the time when they could have put a pound of weight on for $.50 that they could sell for $1.15. But the only thing the see is that $.50 per pound leaving their pocket instead of the $1.15 coming back in.

 

[Brute 23]

What you think of as doom and gloom is in most cases reality. There is money to be made, just not a lot of money. The margin of true profit on each head is small. Buying big is one of the most common mistakes, borrowing into debt to purchase cattle is another. Many people have no idea of their actaul cost to produce a lb of saleable beef. I see a good number of producders that get the big check at sale time and think it's profit, it isn;t. They confuse gross with net.

It depends... IF you are making a higher interest on your money invested than what your interest is on your loan then you would want to get the loan for the cattle. ;-)

 

[Jogeephus]

p!ss poor managment.

I'm 100% serious. I see ranchers selling calves light all the time when they could have put a pound of weight on for $.50 that they could sell for $1.15. But the only thing the see is that $.50 per pound leaving their pocket instead of the $1.15 coming back in.

I know a few of those. They are blinded by the price per pound and don't consider what the price per head is.

 

[Brute 23]

p!ss poor managment.

I'm 100% serious. I see ranchers selling calves light all the time when they could have put a pound of weight on for $.50 that they could sell for $1.15. But the only thing the see is that $.50 per pound leaving their pocket instead of the $1.15 coming back in.

That is very true.
IF you want to make it you have top scratch up every penny you can. Sooner or later all those pennies will add up.

Another misconception is "the more money I put in the more I will get out". Most of the time that is not the case. It takes a bull, cow, food, and water to produce a calf. Any thing more than that is a luxury item.

 

[OhioRiver]

well.......the opportunity costs of your labor and operational expenses have to be added into the time value of your money. So you would need to make more than just investing your money into the markets per se if you take into account the other intangibles. You could take a part time job with the time you spend on cattle and invest the money. You would come out ahead on that one. Being from the Kentuckiana area I wonder if it can be done and make money. I reckon that I can try and squawk about my failures later on this board in two or three years, but I want to win. I have seen people win on the first time selling an ET yearling cow for $5k and a bull for $4k. They paid $500 each for the embryo but had to buy three because one did not take. so they had to eat that cost of the lost embryo. But still they came out ahead and laughing about it.

What you think of as doom and gloom is in most cases reality. There is money to be made, just not a lot of money. The margin of true profit on each head is small. Buying big is one of the most common mistakes, borrowing into debt to purchase cattle is another. Many people have no idea of their actaul cost to produce a lb of saleable beef. I see a good number of producders that get the big check at sale time and think it's profit, it isn;t. They confuse gross with net.

It depends... IF you are making a higher interest on your money invested than what your interest is on your loan then you would want to get the loan for the cattle. ;-)

 

[somn]

What you think of as doom and gloom is in most cases reality. There is money to be made, just not a lot of money. The margin of true profit on each head is small. Buying big is one of the most common mistakes, borrowing into debt to purchase cattle is another. Many people have no idea of their actaul cost to produce a lb of saleable beef. I see a good number of producders that get the big check at sale time and think it's profit, it isn;t. They confuse gross with net.

It depends... IF you are making a higher interest on your money invested than what your interest is on your loan then you would want to get the loan for the cattle. ;-)

Well I'm not ashamed to admit it the bank carries paper on all my cattle anyone that can afford 2500 hd of feeder cattle without borrowing money on them made there money the old fashioned way they inherited it. Cattle are just a way to spend the inheritance

 

[Stepper]

clue me in if you don't mind on some cause I know a lot of seedstock angus producers that live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds if you get my drift

Dont let anybody kid you, there are a whole lot of hidden benifits to cattle farming. You just have to be able to recognize all of these hidden benifits. 8)

[/quote]

Just because a lot of seedstock angus producers live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds means they were paid for form the seedstock they are saling. I bet if you could know the truth about where they got all of their money. A very small percentage of them made it off of their seedstock operation. Or any other kind of cattle operation as far as that goes.

There are some people who live that life style from ranching or cattle farming. But i bet thoes few select have big operations and i bet they did not start from scratch.

 

[Jogeephus]

I've seen three people lose almost every thing they had doing just what you are talking about too. No, make that four. The only ones I know that seem to do this successfully in a big way have enough other income the losses or gains from cattle are insignificant.

 

[OhioRiver]

So are you telling me I cannot make money buying surrogate angus cows and buying higher dollar embryos placed by and embryologist. Are you telling me if my calves come out as hot progeny that I cannot make money off of them??

clue me in if you don't mind on some cause I know a lot of seedstock angus producers that live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds if you get my drift

Dont let anybody kid you, there are a whole lot of hidden benifits to cattle farming. You just have to be able to recognize all of these hidden benifits. 8)

Just because a lot of seedstock angus producers live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds means they were paid for form the seedstock they are saling. I bet if you could know the truth about where they got all of their money. A very small percentage of them made it off of their seedstock operation. Or any other kind of cattle operation as far as that goes.

There are some people who live that life style from ranching or cattle farming. But i bet thoes few select have big operations and i bet they did not start from scratch.[/quote]

 

[OhioRiver]

I would not leave my job nor would my wife. I would place my purchases on another farm and pay the fee they ask for care as long as it is reasonable. I believe you can find some places that would do that in Kentucky.

I've seen three people lose almost every thing they had doing just what you are talking about too. No, make that four. The only ones I know that seem to do this successfully in a big way have enough other income the losses or gains from cattle are insignificant.

 

[Brute 23]

Big houses and cattle means they inherited it, there is oil and gas production on the land, or they made money else where. :lol:

Go to some one who lives off their cattle. They will have a couple thousand acres. Probably valued at several million, but yet the house sitting on the land might be worth $100K.

 

[Stepper]

So are you telling me I cannot make money buying surrogate angus cows and buying higher dollar embryos placed by and embryologist. Are you telling me if my calves come out as hot progeny that I cannot make money off of them??

clue me in if you don't mind on some cause I know a lot of seedstock angus producers that live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds if you get my drift

Dont let anybody kid you, there are a whole lot of hidden benifits to cattle farming. You just have to be able to recognize all of these hidden benifits. 8)

Just because a lot of seedstock angus producers live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds means they were paid for form the seedstock they are saling. I bet if you could know the truth about where they got all of their money. A very small percentage of them made it off of their seedstock operation. Or any other kind of cattle operation as far as that goes.

There are some people who live that life style from ranching or cattle farming. But i bet thoes few select have big operations and i bet they did not start from scratch.

[/quote]

No i am not telling you that. I dont know nothing about you or your money sitution. But unless you have really deep pockets to get into the business without having to finance most of your operation. I dont see how you or anyone else could make a living at it.

But that is just my opinion, and i by no means no it all or claim to.

 

[Jogeephus]

Not saying you cannot make money off them. I am saying I have seen more people go broke doing what you are considering than I have seen make money. There is always room for one more business. That is what makes the country great. But with anything, you better look at both sides of the coin.

 

[CUZ]

well.......the opportunity costs of your labor and operational expenses have to be added into the time value of your money. So you would need to make more than just investing your money into the markets per se if you take into account the other intangibles. You could take a part time job with the time you spend on cattle and invest the money. You would come out ahead on that one.

I bet most of us on here know one or two folks that spend a lot of their time on a golf course. (You know spending 3 or 4 hours several days a week playing 9 holes, not to mention greens fees, membership dues, cart rentals and buying the new hottest putter or whatever.) So when you talk about opportunity costs shouldn't you also add back the goof off costs saved?

 

[OhioRiver]

Definitely.........but I am not that stupid just currently ignorant to all the knowledge. I learn more everyday and am light years ahead of where I was a month ago, but still not strong enough educationally speaking to go operational today.

Not saying you cannot make money off them. I am saying I have seen more people go broke doing what you are considering than I have seen make money. There is always room for one more business. That is what makes the country great. But with anything, you better look at both sides of the coin.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

I would place my purchases on another farm and pay the fee they ask for care as long as it is reasonable. I believe you can find some places that would do that in Kentucky.

and

Are you telling me if my calves come out as hot progeny that I cannot make money off of them??

Let me do that again with one word emphasized by me: "Are you telling me IF my calves come out as hot progeny that I cannot make money off of them??"

AND you are going to pay somebody else to take care of them?

Well I waste my money on stupid stuff sometimes too. Have fun!

 

[OhioRiver]

My wife is happy if I just buy two surrogates and get two high dollar embryos going. If I do not lose money in that she would probably get behind me on the idea a bit. I just wonder if the calves are decent EPD wise in the 40's or better if my no name farm can generate the revenue from the yearlings I need to continue. Overhead is my key....LOW LOW.

So are you telling me I cannot make money buying surrogate angus cows and buying higher dollar embryos placed by and embryologist. Are you telling me if my calves come out as hot progeny that I cannot make money off of them??

clue me in if you don't mind on some cause I know a lot of seedstock angus producers that live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds if you get my drift

Dont let anybody kid you, there are a whole lot of hidden benifits to cattle farming. You just have to be able to recognize all of these hidden benifits. 8)

Just because a lot of seedstock angus producers live in huge homes and have mercedes and diamonds means they were paid for form the seedstock they are saling. I bet if you could know the truth about where they got all of their money. A very small percentage of them made it off of their seedstock operation. Or any other kind of cattle operation as far as that goes.

There are some people who live that life style from ranching or cattle farming. But i bet thoes few select have big operations and i bet they did not start from scratch.

No i am not telling you that. I dont know nothing about you or your money sitution. But unless you have really deep pockets to get into the business without having to finance most of your operation. I dont see how you or anyone else could make a living at it.

But that is just my opinion, and i by no means no it all or claim to.[/quote]