I definitely hate discussing religion. Fastest way of losing a friend. Will through out a few thoughts though. 1st - how come so many of those claiming to be abused happened 30 - 40 yrs ago? They are just now claiming to be traumatised. We have trouble believing a rape victim if she reports it just hours after but we believe all these people who claim it YEARS after. I feel a money making/fame scheme in the works. 2nd - why would being a large land owner be hard to understand? Think about every small town in the world that has a little church. It may be only a small lot but you add all of them together and they become a big number. Then throw in the cemetaries, shrines, monuments, hospitals, convents, monestaries, retirement homes, orphanages, etc. I would be surprised if they [/u]didn't own a lot of land. We have no problem with the thousands of acres one family can own in say - Montana(for example). 3rd - the Catholic church teaches "turn the other cheek", they are against killing such as abortion and lethal injection. I am not sure what people expect the Pope to do when these are the church beliefs. The accusations that were found to be true - the priests were relieved of their duties. They have no one and no where to go. Most priests are older and don't have living family to return to. Isolated. The accusations that were not proven - the priests were still punished by being reassigned. The parish becomes their family. They lost their family. Try imagining being told you could no longer be a part of your family, that you now have to try and fit in somewhere else. No past memories, past experiences, past ties to bind you to that family. Not trying to say that the Catholic church is totally right in all things. Just trying to point out that there is more than meets the eye. Some things are hard for even devote Catholics to understand. Imagine it would be even harder for those not raised in that religion. Just some thoughts.
Pope John Paul
- Thread starter txshowmom
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buckaroo_bif
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always more than meets the eye farmhand we just never really know. no one knows but the accused and the so named victim , and God.
i know what you are saying though i hate discussing religion even with my very best friend, he considers himself a deist, i am christian. better than trying to argue with an atheist but we still get a little hot under the collar, or have. we just don't talk about it anymore... :roll:
i know what you are saying though i hate discussing religion even with my very best friend, he considers himself a deist, i am christian. better than trying to argue with an atheist but we still get a little hot under the collar, or have. we just don't talk about it anymore... :roll:
Farmhand":1knfm1q4 said:
If all thesee allegations are true (and I'm sure some of them are) then this is a problem for the POLICE who deal with people who break the LAW!!! Not the Catholic Church or the Pope.
Do people blame the President when some local J.P. or Commissioner is accused of molesting someone? NO they CALL THE POLICE! Which is what all these other should have done instead of sitting around and blaming the Church.
sidney411
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Texan, when I read your post I thought you must have been in my head. My husband and I were just talking about these exact things and I have to say I totally agree with what you said. The pope is idolized to a point that I think it is like putting him before God. I don't think one man should have as much say and power in a religion that he does, even thought he has passed. I'm sure there will be a new pope announced soon, and that man will be seen in the same manner.
sidney411
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Showmom, I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. Why are you picking me out of the crowd to pick on? The way I see it, the pope is viewed and treated as an idol, that is a comandment that shouldn't be broken.
El_Putzo
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txshowmom":3bu1g7o5 said:
This is my understanding and belief as well.
jt
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this whole "religion" thing today can get mighty confusing...
think about it... Jesus said.. I will build my church...and he did... and is head of it... it is called his body... and there is only one body....
scriptures tell us all of the above...
but now, today, we have tons of em...named all kinds of names...
every church has a founder, and as years go by, more and more churches are founded...by who? in AD 33, the people didnt have all the choices we have today... so what gives? Christ built his then... and so any more founded today seem to me to be founded by men..
just some thoughts that have wondered thru my head over the years... and you might be suprised if you go to the encyclopedia and look up the religious body you are a part of to see when it began. i was, and i have attended a few.
jt
think about it... Jesus said.. I will build my church...and he did... and is head of it... it is called his body... and there is only one body....
scriptures tell us all of the above...
but now, today, we have tons of em...named all kinds of names...
every church has a founder, and as years go by, more and more churches are founded...by who? in AD 33, the people didnt have all the choices we have today... so what gives? Christ built his then... and so any more founded today seem to me to be founded by men..
just some thoughts that have wondered thru my head over the years... and you might be suprised if you go to the encyclopedia and look up the religious body you are a part of to see when it began. i was, and i have attended a few.
jt
Catholics adore the Pope but do not worship him. The Pope is the leader of the church. Catholics look to the Pope for direction as to how best serve the Lord. It is not much different than grandparents adoring their grandchildren or children looking to their parents for direction. It happens to be on a much larger scale and it is about religion. We can't understand why someone could not love their children or grandchildren - they are expected to naturally do so. We accuse parents of not teaching their children if they do not behave as society expects. Let those same feelings be about religion and now it is wrong in some eyes.
sidney411
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I'm not saying that the way people feel is wrong, I am saying that I think there is too much emphasis on one mortal being.
Texan
Well-known member
Just stand your ground, Sid! You're absolutely right. Way too much emphasis on a mere person. It seems to me as if they worship the Pope. But that's their business, I guess. Some Catholics can't even talk about the Pope or the Church objectively. For example:sidney411":5ki68viz said:
Showmom admits that she is sure that some of the allegations are true. The ones about the sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests. But that's not a problem for the Church or their leader to deal with? Ridiculous!txshowmom":5ki68viz said:
I guess if a person is a child molester, it would be nice to go to work for someone like showmom . Doesn't even matter if she knows about it. She doesn't care. As long as the police don't get involved, it's not a problem for her. BS! Sure it's also a job for the police. The Pope should have personally carried the bodies of the guilty and turned them over to the police. Case closed. Handled internally. That's my idea of being objective with a matter that serious.
Many objective people agree with you, Sid. Some of them have already spoken up. Maybe the others just don't want to get involved.
greenwillowherefords
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I should keep out of this-but: Read your Bible. No one has power to forgive sins but God. No human being has the authority to do so. Furthermore, if any human being, no matter how lofty their position, sets forth doctrine contrary to God's Word, their followers are not released from the precepts of the Word just because the leader made a decision about them.
I find it humorous that people that are offended or whatever about all of the attetnion the pope has recieved don;t see the similarity between the current situation and all of the fuss that was made when reagan died and the adoration that he was held in.
The pope has croaked, bury him and get on with life.
dun
The pope has croaked, bury him and get on with life.
dun
frenchie
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Agreeddun":9bn6i6ea said:
sidney411
Well-known member
I agree with you dun too, I am not offended by what these people do, I just don't think God intended his people to bring so much power to one person, the adoration directed to the pope should be directed to God.
I also think it was entirely rediculious how much attention was drawn to the death of the ex-president. Yes, he was a great man. The pope was a great man who also did a lot of good for his followers. But all this media attention and hype that comes along when any leader passes is rediculous. When Regan died there was NOTHING else on TV. The flags were all lowered for weeks it seemed. We heard about it on every outlet of information i.e. TV, radio, newspapers, magazines. There is way to much idolizing going on across this planet on leaders in every aspect, not just good ones. Remember how much talk about bin laden there was just a few years ago? Yes, he was ONE man, that caused a lot of trouble (and still is) but there are a lot more men out there that cause just as much trouble but since he was/is the LEADER, he gets all of the attention from the media and such.
This is my opinion. I think that the president of USA in the same way, he is a leader and a great man, I wouldn't want the other choice for president in office for sure, but I think that the president in general has too much power. Yes, he can be overruled, but in most instances that doesn't happen. Most people look up to him and he is expected to do what is right. How many people out there don't agree with what is done though? I am a definate opponet of big government, but I also see what it has done for us. I am not stupid, I know that with out the government system we have today we would be like all of those other countries that are constantly at battle. I would have no rights and would not be allowed to voice my opinions, like I am doing. Please don't get me wrong! I am very thankful for what we have in this country and I could never imagine living differently.
I will probably get a lot of flack for posting this but I also believe that it is my right to be able to do so.
(Macon, I'm sorry if this post is too political
I don't want to break any rules, please let me know if I am way off base here)
I also think it was entirely rediculious how much attention was drawn to the death of the ex-president. Yes, he was a great man. The pope was a great man who also did a lot of good for his followers. But all this media attention and hype that comes along when any leader passes is rediculous. When Regan died there was NOTHING else on TV. The flags were all lowered for weeks it seemed. We heard about it on every outlet of information i.e. TV, radio, newspapers, magazines. There is way to much idolizing going on across this planet on leaders in every aspect, not just good ones. Remember how much talk about bin laden there was just a few years ago? Yes, he was ONE man, that caused a lot of trouble (and still is) but there are a lot more men out there that cause just as much trouble but since he was/is the LEADER, he gets all of the attention from the media and such.
This is my opinion. I think that the president of USA in the same way, he is a leader and a great man, I wouldn't want the other choice for president in office for sure, but I think that the president in general has too much power. Yes, he can be overruled, but in most instances that doesn't happen. Most people look up to him and he is expected to do what is right. How many people out there don't agree with what is done though? I am a definate opponet of big government, but I also see what it has done for us. I am not stupid, I know that with out the government system we have today we would be like all of those other countries that are constantly at battle. I would have no rights and would not be allowed to voice my opinions, like I am doing. Please don't get me wrong! I am very thankful for what we have in this country and I could never imagine living differently.
I will probably get a lot of flack for posting this but I also believe that it is my right to be able to do so.
(Macon, I'm sorry if this post is too political
I don't want to break any rules, please let me know if I am way off base here)I agree that some Catholic priests have done wrong. Just as I am sure other religions have the same problem. ALL of them are just mortal beings after all. I am not sure why we only hear of the cases involving Catholics though. Don't all religions claim to be teaching about God? So why does only Catholic abuse make the news? As to the Pope handing them over to the law - the victim has to go to the law first. You can not be imprisoned without a victim. Then you have to be proven guilty. If this system was not in place, then I could haul you into jail and lie about something you did and have you locked up for life or get you the death penalty atomatically. No trial, no evidence, no proof. I am still amazed at how many cases are from over 40 YEARS ago and they didn't come out until others were awarded money. And the victims still did not go to the police for punishment for those priests - they just wanted money from the church. People want the Pope to punish these priests but it sounds like nothing short of death will be considered enough punishment. The Pope is not the law so he can not imprison them - that is considered kidnapping. He can not kill them - that is considered murder. People do not want the Pope to be thought of as anything but a man. Then he can not do anything more than you or me. If the victims had gone to the police when it happened, the priests would have been arrested. Rape victims are not atomatically believed when they go to the police. They are put through hospital exams, have to give testimony over and over, attempts at finding witnesses are made, court dates, etc. The one committing the crime is considered innocent until PROVEN guilty. Once proven guilty, they go on a registered sex offender list but are allowed out in public to possibly offend again. They are not locked up for life or put to death. Why so different for a Catholic priest? Just because someone says it happened to them, now people want them locked up forever with no proof of it being true.
As to the media coverage - I agree but it happens anytime a leader dies. I just don't recall people screaming about it when Reagan passed away. I also didn't like the CONSTANT war coverage either. Update us, yes - constant coverage, no. The coverage of the Pope's passing will stop though and you will not here anymore of it again. Wish I could say the same about all the media coverage of sports. Do we really need to televise every game? From about 11:00 on, all day Sunday, all the public channels play nothing but sports. Has been like that for years - not just days. Now that's worth screaming about.
I just find it annoying that people would not be as upset if any of these things would have happened anywhere else.
Well, I'll quit for now. Sorry so long winded.
As to the media coverage - I agree but it happens anytime a leader dies. I just don't recall people screaming about it when Reagan passed away. I also didn't like the CONSTANT war coverage either. Update us, yes - constant coverage, no. The coverage of the Pope's passing will stop though and you will not here anymore of it again. Wish I could say the same about all the media coverage of sports. Do we really need to televise every game? From about 11:00 on, all day Sunday, all the public channels play nothing but sports. Has been like that for years - not just days. Now that's worth screaming about.
I just find it annoying that people would not be as upset if any of these things would have happened anywhere else.
Well, I'll quit for now. Sorry so long winded.
