Poor man's program...

[East Caney]

What do you do to stretch your dollars to the limit when you're trying to establish a successful breeding program?

For me, I go to a friend and reputable breeder. I study his herd and talk to him about what he can stand to get rid of. I leave having purchased two of his three oldest cows (15 years old), one with her 15th calf (a very nice heifer) on her side and the other bred to calve about the first of March. I leave with a 3rd cow that has already seen her 13th birthday and has never missed a beat. She's due to calve around the first of February. Year after year, since I became associated with Beefmasters, I've watched the 13 year old raise very, very good bull calves that later made darn good bulls. By default, these girls will get a little extra care by the simple fact that the remainder of the herd is comprised of bred heifers. My goal in selecting these older cows was to select proven cows. They still have good udders and structural soundness to carry out the job. My hope is that I can get heifers from the two breds. I'm hoping that longevity will be passed along.

I think this option has provided a low risk, very high reward means of expanding my program. What do you think?

EC

 

[cow pollinater]

Some of the best cows I own are older cows that were native to my area when I bought them. They already knew what they were supposed to do and their herdmates that didn't were someone else's failure and got culled.
Older proven cows are a smart buy if they've got some life left. Especially when you consider that heifers aren't proven and cost more. Plus, you know that this way every heifer you produce has the genetics of longevity built in.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

What I do to stretch my dollars is buy the best bulls I can afford.. so far it brought out the best in my lower end cows...

 

[gizmom]

It is a very sound way of growing your herd with proven producers. A cow that stays in my herd for 10 to 13 years has been doing everything right I hate to let them go. So if someone wants to get a couple more calves out of them and has the time to give them a little tlc I would consider it a win win for both of us. We have one right now that I know needs to go she is 15 broke mouth and still doing good job she went through the chute yesterday when we were doing our AI work and we just passed her through made me really sad.

Gizmom

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Sounds like a pretty good plan to me East Caney.

 

[highgrit]

I was always told broke mouth cows can get by good, on long grass and a little feed. I think it's a good plan myself.

 

[East Caney]

What I do to stretch my dollars is buy the best bulls I can afford.. so far it brought out the best in my lower end cows...

Perhaps I should provide more information...I've already got my herd bull in a small trap growing and getting ready for the Spring. Based on growth, phenotype, and genetics, I see no need to spend more for his replacement before seeing his calves. He's a few days from being a year old and hasn't yet seen a cow. So, with the bull situation seemingly secured, what's the next best way to stretch the almighty dollar?

 

[ANAZAZI]

Those old proven cows are pure gold in any breed. Make sure you recruit as many bulls and heifers from them as you can.

 

[bigbull338]

your taking a very big gamble.buying cows that old id be in panic mode.because at their age if they get sick they wont make it.when my cows get 10 or older i start looking at culling and replacing them.i bought 2 cows this year and i gave an ave of $2900.1 cow has paid for herself with her calf.the last cow will pay for herself in early summer when she calves.like you i used to buy cows as cheap as i can.but that has changed.now i really judge cattle hard by their bloodlines age body score and what they are bred to.then i see what my $ limit is then i bid them up to that win loose or draw.this year my max limit was $4000.so everything on my list i ran to $4000.so bidding against me you was going to have to go over that.i got my #4 pick for $3400.

 

[Toad]

I've spent a few years building up a herd and have had better luck out of old cows then the bred heifers I bought. Of the old cows I bought last year one was shipped this year because although she raised an impressive calf it just pulled her down way too much. I almost doubled my money by selling the cow and the 500# calf so I still did okay on her. The rest have all been bred back for another go. I'm saving a few heifers out of them as well and will continue to so my herd will be younger in years to come. My plan is to continue to grow the herd by buying old cows and then keeping the best heifers from them. Its a lot cheaper than buying the heifers straight out and I can also be a lot more choosey over which ones I want to keep.

 

[hillbilly beef man]

We keep our cows as long as the weaning weights of their calves stay up. This is what we use to judge when it is time to ship a cow. For some cows this is 10 or 11 years old, for some it is on into the late teens. They stay on our place as long as they can still raise a good calf. Sounds like you have a pretty good plan caney.

 

[AllForage]

What I do to stretch my dollars is buy the best bulls I can afford.. so far it brought out the best in my lower end cows...

Perhaps I should provide more information...I've already got my herd bull in a small trap growing and getting ready for the Spring. Based on growth, phenotype, and genetics, I see no need to spend more for his replacement before seeing his calves. He's a few days from being a year old and hasn't yet seen a cow. So, with the bull situation seemingly secured, what's the next best way to stretch the almighty dollar?

Depending on your land base and carrying capacity, figure out how to graze year round with minimal supplementing. Otherwise sounds like you are doing well.

 

[jedstivers]

You do what works. Everyone and every place is diffrent.
Example compare what big bull is doing and what I'm doing. And I'm not knocking him either, he's doing good. He threw his program out there and I'll throw mine out.
If I wanted I could build a good paid for herd out of these thin cows I'm buying but everything but just a few are for sale and that's what I'll keep doing.
For his 4,000 dollars I'm buying 4 cows with a little left over. Some will calve, that will be the home runs. Some will be sold as bred and some will be killers. They will bring enough money to buy back 5 or 6 or 7, those will bring enough to buy back even more.
But like I said I could put togather a real good herd of 5-7 year old cows that have been there and done that and have them paid for quick if I wanted.
Can do this 2-3 turns a year.
While this cattle business is my hobby and the farm is my job I plain on making money on my hobby while I'm doing it.

 

[ohiosteve]

Jed is a smart hillbilly.

 

[Nesikep]

I like those old cows too... they don't get as worked up about things, and like everyone says, they've made it off the cull list a dozen times. My old Rosie was 17 when I put her down, she raised the biggest heifer of the herd that year.. she got a little bit (5-10 lb/week) of grain, more to make up for her bad teeth and arthritis than to try and make her exceed what her natural capacity was. That daughter is getting ready to calf, and I'm really liking what I'm seeing about her so far.. proof will come when she gives me a calf and raises it. Between her oldest (9 year old) sister, mother, and grandmother I've had nearly 40 calves and none have ever skipped a beat. Hurray for old cows!

Keeping and old cow and buying one are slightly different.. I would expect more from one I bought, because I have less time to get my money back compared to one I kept on keeping.. so better weaning weights, EPD's, etc than what I have would have to be there for me to be able to get more valuable offspring from her. If you're thinking this old purchased cow can give you good replacement heifers and good bulls.. I think its a pretty good deal

 

[jedstivers]

Jed is a smart hillbilly.

Ain't no hills here. Flatland.

 

[Jake]

Jed is a smart hillbilly.

Ain't no hills here. Flatland.

Oh you're selling it short Jed, There's that one hill down the road

 

[East Caney]

your taking a very big gamble.buying cows that old id be in panic mode.because at their age if they get sick they wont make it.when my cows get 10 or older i start looking at culling and replacing them.i bought 2 cows this year and i gave an ave of $2900.1 cow has paid for herself with her calf.the last cow will pay for herself in early summer when she calves.like you i used to buy cows as cheap as i can.but that has changed.now i really judge cattle hard by their bloodlines age body score and what they are bred to.then i see what my $ limit is then i bid them up to that win loose or draw.this year my max limit was $4000.so everything on my list i ran to $4000.so bidding against me you was going to have to go over that.i got my #4 pick for $3400.

Big bull, you may be a bit mistaken about whether or not I buy the cheapest cows I can. I buy the best at the best value. I'd question my own judgement for buying one unproven cow for $4000 when I could put a few dollars with it and have the opportunity to get 3 calves in the same year, with one already being on the ground. If the $4000 cow gets sick and dies, all my eggs were in one basket. If one of 3 gets sick and dies, I still have the opportunity to raise two calves. Money spent on an animal is also not a direct reflection of the quality of an animal.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

What I do to stretch my dollars is buy the best bulls I can afford.. so far it brought out the best in my lower end cows...

Perhaps I should provide more information...I've already got my herd bull in a small trap growing and getting ready for the Spring. Based on growth, phenotype, and genetics, I see no need to spend more for his replacement before seeing his calves. He's a few days from being a year old and hasn't yet seen a cow. So, with the bull situation seemingly secured, what's the next best way to stretch the almighty dollar?

Well I should have also stated..older proven cows Im broke out with..so it's all bull selection for me anymore..

 

[Angus Cowman]

Jed is a smart hillbilly.

Jed ain't no Hillbilly he is a flatlander he just has a real smart hillbilly working for him