Pasture rotation is working

[shaz]

I've noticed the guys who really do great at MIG (or whatever) seem to maintain a good moisture canopy. They don't appear to follow the 4" rule.

I was going over some pasture last night that the heard just came off of and there's plent of 1ft tall grass and plenty of 2" grass. 50 pairs were on it for 6 days. I guess it's about 40acres.

Anyway, after building 4000ft of fence this winter I STILL ain't got it!

 

[1wlimo]

I've noticed the guys who really do great at MIG (or whatever) seem to maintain a good moisture canopy. They don't appear to follow the 4" rule.
I was going over some pasture last night that the heard just came off of and there's plent of 1ft tall grass and plenty of 2" grass. 50 pairs were on it for 6 days. I guess it's about 40acres.

Anyway, after building 4000ft of fence this winter I STILL ain't got it!

The "rules" will change with the weather, I guess there is just no substitue for experiance

I have rotated stock every day when running out of feed in the past. That way I could try to reduce the pressure on the grass as much as possiable. I did have a very good team of dogs. But when you run out, no system works.

 

[1982vett]

not sure 50 pair on 40 acres for 6 days is MIG.....unless your in my pasture right now.

 

[1wlimo]

1982vett have you looked into how they cope with drought in Australia?

Not sure if Buffell grass etc is of any use in Texas or the trees they grow (can't think of their name just now)

 

[1982vett]

1982vett have you looked into how they cope with drought in Australia?

Not sure if Buffell grass etc is of any use in Texas or the trees they grow (can't think of their name just now)

1wlimo...I think it's just the Good Lord telling me to get out....as soon as I break and sell, all will return to normal.... But the Extension Agents are now telling us to eradicate improved bermudas and plant native grasses when renovating pasture. One always has to cope with environment. Absolutely can look at places like Australia or even the southwestern part of the USofA for pointers, however the plants and grasses that thrive in those conditions aren't in the ecosystem here...yet....and our stocking rate is now about a pair per 7 acres heading towards 1 per section.....

 

[1wlimo]

yes 1982vett all the "improvements" in grass and then go back to the original natives.

I wish I still had the text books from when my Granddad and great granddad were learning, they seamed to have more sense then, than the last 40 years or so

 

[shaz]

not sure 50 pair on 40 acres for 6 days is MIG.....unless your in my pasture right now.

Yeah, I know....
You should see the 100+ acres I have them on now. Same problem just more of it.

 

[agmantoo]

JHH

I know that you are satisfied with the every 7 day rotation. However, if you can shorten that to every 3 or 4 days you will like the improvement. On a 7 day cycle the first grazed forage is into a couple of days recovery and is getting damaged.

 

[agmantoo]

I have been through a major drought in previous years. Fortunately I currently am in just an abnormally dry condition according to the drought monitor. Rotational grazing does benefit during trying periods. I am a feeder calf producer that does only clipping for weed control and I distribute the manure, no commercial fertilizer is used, by harrowing. The cattle are moved daily. I feed no grain and make no hay. As I moved the herd this evening I took a pic that demonstrates the results that I want to share. IMO more folks need to consider making a change to rotational grazing.

 

[Isomade]

I have been through a major drought in previous years. Fortunately I currently am in just an abnormally dry condition according to the drought monitor. Rotational grazing does benefit during trying periods. I am a feeder calf producer that does only clipping for weed control and I distribute the manure, no commercial fertilizer is used, by harrowing. The cattle are moved daily. I feed no grain and make no hay. As I moved the herd this evening I took a pic that demonstrates the results that I want to share. IMO more folks need to consider making a change to rotational grazing.

Agman, I am always impressed with your grass and the way you operate. I have 7 pastures divided into 40 acre sections, I have coastal and common Bermuda and some blue stem but not much. My normal carrying capacity is cow/4 acres, could do to 3 acres but try to be prepared for dry years. I have water (ponds) in every section. I know our climates are different but I would like to hear how you would operate with my setup. How many acres per day would you graze and how would it effect carrying capacity?

 

[agmantoo]

Isomade
I watch the behavior of the cattle herd to determine that I am feeding adequately. If they move quietly and with only modest enthusiasm I know that their needs were met on the last move. I also judge the appearance of the just grazed area they are leaving. I am the only person that I am aware of that has variable size paddocks. Variable size paddocks may not work in your operation but it is something to give thought. At times I can meet the needs of the herd by allocating 7/10ths of an acre which roughly would equate to ~ 200,000 lbs of animals/acre. At other times I may be feeding the same number of animals on twice that amount of acreage. My carrying capacity is a cow plus her calf 'til it is marketed on 1.4 acres for the entire year. The rule of thumb here is 1 1/2 acre per cow/calf during the forage growing season then hay for Winter. When I went to daily rotation I was able to increase the herd count by ~28 percent. I do need to share that I will take the herd into Winter with a body condition score of 5+ and if feed availability is lacking I will reduce the allocation and let the herd shed some of the fat but not to the point it impacts their heat cycling. I have done this long enough to know that come Spring they will put the weight back on with compensatory gain. I do not see any difference in doing this than what happens in nature. My cattle are not as large as what most people on this site promote nor do my cows give as much milk. I want the calf to forage for its needs and the cow to hold her condition as she will normally be rebred within 60 days of giving birth. My goals include producing a calf that will market profitably off what my place can produce with minimal outside purchases. I may not have answered your questions due to lack of familiarity of your operation. However, I am willing to share anything you may have questions on regarding my operation and possibly you can determine if that would be applicable to your setup.

 

[agmantoo]

Here is a conventional pasture in my neighborhood for comparison. This pasture was heavily fertilized and less than 1 cow per ~2 acres.

 

[Kingfisher]

We have been trying to learn how to rotate our cows for years. Most of the time it works good, but this year the grass just never grew back. We went 114 days with only 3/4 of an inch of rain. My wife has mowed the yard 2 times this year and really only needed to once. Our grasses won't grow without a little rain, no matter how long you don't graze it for. I'am willing to learn just tell me how to grow grass. Thanks

It ain't the same in a draught....but I suspect you and your cows can learn the routine just as well weather it rains or not.... Do you know what I mean?

 

[Isomade]

Isomade
I watch the behavior of the cattle herd to determine that I am feeding adequately. If they move quietly and with only modest enthusiasm I know that their needs were met on the last move. I also judge the appearance of the just grazed area they are leaving. I am the only person that I am aware of that has variable size paddocks. Variable size paddocks may not work in your operation but it is something to give thought. At times I can meet the needs of the herd by allocating 7/10ths of an acre which roughly would equate to ~ 200,000 lbs of animals/acre. At other times I may be feeding the same number of animals on twice that amount of acreage. My carrying capacity is a cow plus her calf 'til it is marketed on 1.4 acres for the entire year. The rule of thumb here is 1 1/2 acre per cow/calf during the forage growing season then hay for Winter. When I went to daily rotation I was able to increase the herd count by ~28 percent. I do need to share that I will take the herd into Winter with a body condition score of 5+ and if feed availability is lacking I will reduce the allocation and let the herd shed some of the fat but not to the point it impacts their heat cycling. I have done this long enough to know that come Spring they will put the weight back on with compensatory gain. I do not see any difference in doing this than what
happens in nature. My cattle are not as large as what most people on this site promote nor do my cows give as much milk. I want the calf to forage for its needs and the cow to hold her condition as she will normally be rebred within 60 days of giving birth. My goals include producing a calf that will market profitably off what my place can produce with minimal outside purchases. I may not have answered your questions due to lack of familiarity of your operation. However, I am willing
to share anything you may have questions on regarding my operation and possibly you can determine if that would be applicable to your setup.

Thanks, you say your cows are smaller, as in 1000 lbs? What do you consider smaller? Does weaning play a roll? Do you wean at a certain age like 4-5 months to give the cow time to gain condition in winter months? Thanks for the info.

 

[plumber_greg]

Note, Isomade, that agman said that he watches the cows to tell him how he is doing. It takes a lot of watching and changing of pasture sizes to get it right. I have pastures that can carry 28 cows and calves per forty acres, divided up in 9 paddoks of various sizes, and pastures that can only carry 23 per forty.
I have a calving season, that's why, for breeding porpuses, I figure what each 40 will carry. I usually don't fertilize my pastures, but if the spring is late, I will put on some nitrogen to get them started. Agman has the privilidge of a short winter, wish I could do with out hay, so mine is overstocked per his methods. I run them on pastures from May 1 to Christmas is snow doesn't bury the grass. Take time to learn the process, it pays off really well. gs

 

[agmantoo]

Isomade

I do not have a set of scales so I use the sale barn weights for cull cattle to get my weight information. Though not terrible precise the average is close to 1050 lbs. These are commercial black females that were bought as a lot of angus heifers headed to a feedlot. From those animals I have kept a closed herd except for the bulls. It has taken a number of years to get the forage production to where it is now. This was a worn out cotton and later small grain farm when I bought it. Only a small portion of the farm had small rolling fields. The rest was nearly waste land. I have taken the cattle profits and plowed them back into the farm by buying earth moving machinery that was to recover the gullies and to stop erosion. Even though I am on the farm nearly every day it never ceases to amaze me with the soils ability to improve over time. Red clay has slowly turn to a dark brown and where it was nearly impossible to dig by hand can now be done with little effort. I have more than doubled the size of the herd and could in most years increase another 20%. Like most others, drought is always on my mind.

As for weaning.....I get no additional pay for weaned and prepped calves destined to the feedlot. I do castrate but that is it. As I mentioned my cows do not give a lot of milk and having the calf on the cow does little to pull her down. It is a different situation with some heifers as they are stilling growing and have not reached full maturity. My production costs are so low that it really does not concern me if a first calf heifer is a little slow to bred back. The first calf income will more than offset a slow rebreeding should that happen. This heifer issue is mostly observed based on the time of year the heifer calves.

 

[Isomade]

Thanks again for the info. Little by little I would like to move towards am grazing system like this. I agree with Greg, there is no way that I would be able to go totally without hay here. But, I could certainly decrease the amount required and cut down on fertilize requirements if not totally eliminate it in most years while slightly increasing stocking rates.

 

[High Cotton]

Just out of curiosity. Agmantoo, how long is your winter? Or when do your neighbors start and stop feeding hay

 

[shaz]

Thanks again for the info. Little by little I would like to move towards am grazing system like this. I agree with Greg, there is no way that I would be able to go totally without hay here. But, I could certainly decrease the amount required and cut down on fertilize requirements if not totally eliminate it in most years while slightly increasing stocking rates.

Even if your still feeding hay having some grass through the winter is worth whatever it takes to accomplish that. (within reason of course)

 

[JHH]

JHH

I know that you are satisfied with the every 7 day rotation. However, if you can shorten that to every 3 or 4 days you will like the improvement. On a 7 day cycle the first grazed forage is into a couple of days recovery and is getting damaged.

I guess I am not understanding. What do you mean getting damaged? I really cant move them that often the way I have it setup at this time. I am having a hard enough time keeping it mowed or trimmed. the fescue sure can get away from you in this type of grazing. I am very new to this and am in the learning process myself. I would think in a drought it wouldnt work as well.