Over Conditioned

[plumber_greg]

James, I understand that no one wants dinks , however no matter what plane of nutrition someone operates on, the cows that raise dinks should have been culled.
Everyone has the smallest calf they raised, I understand you said cuz of poor nutrition, but shouldn't even those be similar types?
I think that's what I'm trying to say.

 

[TCRanch]

Another concern that hasn't been mentioned with over conditioned cows is how they handle the summer heat. My fattest cows (and steers) are always the ones panting and showing heat stress once it gets hot out. The fat ones will be looking for shade and a water hole. At least that is how it is here.

I would not select against cows that stay over conditioned, UNLESS they were weaning a below average calf.

Last year the cow who raised the biggest calf for me, was a small, thin cow. She might weigh 900 lbs and weaned a 595 lb calf. I know her calf weight because of the sale barn scale, I don't know her weight for certain. She is half Jersey and half angus. Until I got the weaning weights back I had actually considered selling her because she looks so thin. She has earned a place in my herd for the foreseeable future, despite her thin appearance.

Yes! Steamroller in May. Notice she's the only one in the pond? That said, the only reason I culled her was because of her feet - presumably why she stepped on the head of her last calf. Buh-bye!

 

[Bright Raven]

Steamroller was the poster-cow for over conditioned. Fat when we bought her, always looked bred, clocked in at 2300 while 8 months bred. And yet she was a prolific breeder, always one of the first to calve, perfect udder, perfect disposition. Her downfall was bad feet - quite possibly because she was so fat. We have some big girls but none of the others are/were fat like old Roller so it's not like we're over feeding. I've kept 3 of her daughters & numerous granddaughters, none of which are fat and I've yet to have a foot problem.

Steamroller. Lol. Old Roller.

 

[TCRanch]

Steamroller was the poster-cow for over conditioned. Fat when we bought her, always looked bred, clocked in at 2300 while 8 months bred. And yet she was a prolific breeder, always one of the first to calve, perfect udder, perfect disposition. Her downfall was bad feet - quite possibly because she was so fat. We have some big girls but none of the others are/were fat like old Roller so it's not like we're over feeding. I've kept 3 of her daughters & numerous granddaughters, none of which are fat and I've yet to have a foot problem.

Steamroller. Lol. Old Roller.

She came by her name honestly! She would flatten anything - not just another cow - that got in her way. In slow motion. Saw her run twice in 8 years; shyt got real! :shock:

 

[Bright Raven]

Steamroller was the poster-cow for over conditioned. Fat when we bought her, always looked bred, clocked in at 2300 while 8 months bred. And yet she was a prolific breeder, always one of the first to calve, perfect udder, perfect disposition. Her downfall was bad feet - quite possibly because she was so fat. We have some big girls but none of the others are/were fat like old Roller so it's not like we're over feeding. I've kept 3 of her daughters & numerous granddaughters, none of which are fat and I've yet to have a foot problem.

Steamroller. Lol. Old Roller.

She came by her name honestly! She would flatten anything - not just another cow - that got in her way. In slow motion. Saw her run twice in 8 years; shyt got real! :shock:

That is funny. :cboy:

 

[Nesikep]

Once those big animals get moving it's quite something.. my bulls' mother once came tearing at me, she was about 18-1900 lbs coming down a hill.. she managed to put the brakes on and not run into my truck though.. At pasture change time the bull is usually one of the first to come through the gate, those steps certainly register on the richter scale!

 

[wbvs58]

Just keep them pregnant and lactating Ron.

Ken

 

[Redgully]

Just keep them pregnant and lactating Ron.

Ken

Simple yet effective!

 

[sim.-ang.king]

AI has a higher conception rate, so a fat cow has an easier time breeding. Fall breeding also helps the fat ones along.
Try getting them bull bred in June-Aug, and you'll find out what problems over conditioning causes.

Interesting that you bring that up. If you look at my AAA records, that’s when at least 1/2 my herd is bred and settles. I breed them in 95-100 degree heat and make it happen. That’s how all those Presidents and the two Elations came about. I will be AI’ng probably 20 or more in late June this year.

I agree though, high heat can test whether or not they are fertile.

I guess you didn't catch it when I said "bull bred", not AI. AI has a higher conception rate at any time, or condition.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

AI has a higher conception rate, so a fat cow has an easier time breeding. Fall breeding also helps the fat ones along.
Try getting them bull bred in June-Aug, and you'll find out what problems over conditioning causes.

QUESTION: Should a seedstock producer select against genetic lines that naturally stay over conditioned?

Less fat more muscle will solve that problem. Muscle weighs more than fat, so I don't know why you would breed for overly fat cattle anyways.

 

[gcreekrch]

BR, I would hazard to guess you could add a full years production of heifers to your herd and sacrifice little. Should a dry year come along you can always have a production sale.

 

[Bright Raven]

What are the most significant health and welfare drawbacks to over conditioned cows? Excluding economic.

I run a herd of approximately 20 momma cows and am 100 % AI. Despite the comments that over conditioning adversely affects fertility, I have not experienced that. In fact, on the contrary, fertility in my herd is outstanding. For four consecutive years, every cow has bred back in the 60 days postpartum breeding period. AI conception on first service is 80 %.

Regarding calving issues, I have not lost a single calf during partum in the last four years. On average, I assist a couple cows every year during the calving season - all my calves are born September/October. The assist is not needed only makes me feel better. I bring them into the birthing pasture away from black Vultures and where I can assist. In addition, my calves are far from dinks! This year, my average birth weight was 88 pounds. My running average is 86. The largest calf this past fall was 125. Another was 112 pounds. The 125 pound calf needed some low level assistance by using only chains - no jacking. The cow that had the 112 pounder delivered in about 10 minutes. No assist and she was one of the most over conditioned cows in the herd.

What I worry about most is the stress that over conditioning places on their body. I think and I haven't experienced it yet, is that over conditioning will adversely affect longevity.

The only issue I can see is that people gawk at one’s cattle from the road in amazement, at least that’s been my main issue. Other than that it’s all good. Keep on the path you are going. Great cattle need great nutrition.

Cattle need proper nutrition and good mineral. That makes for healthy cattle and good performance.

But it needs to be planned and managed properly. Let me use my fall heifers as a example. I have 7 fall heifers that are weaned. They average 8 months old. They are at the age when they are developing into reproductive heifers. During this phase of their maturation, studies show that excess input will deposit fat (adipose) tissue in the udder that will displace mammary gland tissue. That is detrimental. I have them in the smallest pasture on water, mineral and grass. I would be working against my own interest to supplement them with ANY grain at this critical juncture. It would be tantamount to going out there and poking them with an ice pick!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

That one you're so crazy about looks a little short or are you much taller than I remember?

 

[Bright Raven]

That one you're so crazy about looks a little short or are you much taller than I remember?

It is a distorted picture. Maybe not distorted but as the gentleman was taking the picture she was in the background. I am reaching my hand out but she is farther back. I was going to get a picture of her for Jeanne. That calf is bigger.

 

[TexasBred]

What are the most significant health and welfare drawbacks to over conditioned cows? Excluding economic.

I run a herd of approximately 20 momma cows and am 100 % AI. Despite the comments that over conditioning adversely affects fertility, I have not experienced that. In fact, on the contrary, fertility in my herd is outstanding. For four consecutive years, every cow has bred back in the 60 days postpartum breeding period. AI conception on first service is 80 %.

Regarding calving issues, I have not lost a single calf during partum in the last four years. On average, I assist a couple cows every year during the calving season - all my calves are born September/October. The assist is not needed only makes me feel better. I bring them into the birthing pasture away from black Vultures and where I can assist. In addition, my calves are far from dinks! This year, my average birth weight was 88 pounds. My running average is 86. The largest calf this past fall was 125. Another was 112 pounds. The 125 pound calf needed some low level assistance by using only chains - no jacking. The cow that had the 112 pounder delivered in about 10 minutes. No assist and she was one of the most over conditioned cows in the herd.

What I worry about most is the stress that over conditioning places on their body. I think and I haven't experienced it yet, is that over conditioning will adversely affect longevity.

The only issue I can see is that people gawk at one’s cattle from the road in amazement, at least that’s been my main issue. Other than that it’s all good. Keep on the path you are going. Great cattle need great nutrition.

Cattle need proper nutrition and good mineral. That makes for healthy cattle and good performance.

But it needs to be planned and managed properly. Let me use my fall heifers as a example. I have 7 fall heifers that are weaned. They average 8 months old. They are at the age when they are developing into reproductive heifers. During this phase of their maturation, studies show that excess input will deposit fat (adipose) tissue in the udder that will displace mammary gland tissue. That is detrimental. I have them in the smallest pasture on water, mineral and grass. I would be working against my own interest to supplement them with ANY grain at this critical juncture. It would be tantamount to going out there and poking them with an ice pick!

The last thing any of your cattle need is any sort of grain in any amount except in the coldest and leanest part of winter. And you not only have an abundance of grass it might actually be "too good" if there is such a thing. Do you fertilize? If so try cutting back on it some and feed a grass with a little less quality and don't clip it so much and force them to eat older less nutritious grass for awhile. They should still maintain more than adequate body condition.

 

[TexasBred]

AI has a higher conception rate, so a fat cow has an easier time breeding. Fall breeding also helps the fat ones along.
Try getting them bull bred in June-Aug, and you'll find out what problems over conditioning causes.

Interesting that you bring that up. If you look at my AAA records, that’s when at least 1/2 my herd is bred and settles. I breed them in 95-100 degree heat and make it happen. That’s how all those Presidents and the two Elations came about. I will be AI’ng probably 20 or more in late June this year.

I agree though, high heat can test whether or not they are fertile.

The problem with breeding in hot weather is not the fertility of the cow. Most will always cycle and conceive if bred but will often lose that calf within a couple of weeks of conception and no one ever really notices other than they see her cycle again. She's fertile but in a survival mode and carrying a baby is the last thing her body wants.

 

[Bright Raven]

The only issue I can see is that people gawk at one’s cattle from the road in amazement, at least that’s been my main issue. Other than that it’s all good. Keep on the path you are going. Great cattle need great nutrition.

Cattle need proper nutrition and good mineral. That makes for healthy cattle and good performance.

But it needs to be planned and managed properly. Let me use my fall heifers as a example. I have 7 fall heifers that are weaned. They average 8 months old. They are at the age when they are developing into reproductive heifers. During this phase of their maturation, studies show that excess input will deposit fat (adipose) tissue in the udder that will displace mammary gland tissue. That is detrimental. I have them in the smallest pasture on water, mineral and grass. I would be working against my own interest to supplement them with ANY grain at this critical juncture. It would be tantamount to going out there and poking them with an ice pick!

The last thing any of your cattle need is any sort of grain in any amount except in the coldest and leanest part of winter. And you not only have an abundance of grass it might actually be "too good" if there is such a thing. Do you fertilize? If so try cutting back on it some and feed a grass with a little less quality and don't clip it so much and force them to eat older less nutritious grass for awhile. They should still maintain more than adequate body condition.

I agree. I feed a very measured amount of a generic beef mix to my calves during winter. When they go into weaning, they go on pasture. They not only maintain condition, they grow well on my pasture. This is the first year that I fertilized pasture.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

That one you're so crazy about looks a little short or are you much taller than I remember?

It is a distorted picture. Maybe not distorted but as the gentleman was taking the picture she was in the background. I am reaching my hand out but she is farther back. I was going to get a picture of her for Jeanne. That calf is bigger.

She's a dwarf.

 

[Bright Raven]

That one you're so crazy about looks a little short or are you much taller than I remember?

It is a distorted picture. Maybe not distorted but as the gentleman was taking the picture she was in the background. I am reaching my hand out but she is farther back. I was going to get a picture of her for Jeanne. That calf is bigger.

She's a dwarf.

She is not easy to photograph. I went out this evening to get a picture. As soon as you get ready, she comes toward you.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Could be their excessive condition that makes the appear like chubby midgets.