Over Conditioned

[TexasBred]

Does anyone get the idea that Hook is like the slow kid in high school that no one will look at or talk to? "It's ok, Hook, you can come over and join the discussion, you don't have to hide under the stairwell and feel sorry for yourself."

Try bringing something meaningful to the Cattle Today table, it's far less work than trolling, and more rewarding. Who knows you might even say something profound! Even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn every once in a while, right?

Pay a little more attention to what Hook says and you'll certainly learn a lot more than you presently know. I forget that you listen to noone. You look at what others do and do the reverse, something like that so you said. What Hook is saying is that nobody takes you seriously any more. You're a joke and the more you post pics and try to justify what you do the bigger fool you make of yourself. Of course this is just fun and games for you supposedly but we're the ones being entertained and enjoying the show

 

[cjmc]

"I guess you didn't catch it when I said "bull bred", not AI. AI has a higher conception rate at any time, or condition."
Simm - I don't understand this statement at all. AI conception is NOT as high as natural cover. Never has been, probably never will be - if you are using a BSE tested bull.
Ron - overly fat virgin heifers would be the only detriment I can think of (for lifetime milking). "Most" of yours aren't obese, just overly fat.
Other than really obese cattle, "generally" fat cows will have less calving difficulties than thin cows.

Here is the kind of calf, my "morbidly obese", "over conditioned" heifers raise, any questions? LOL!

[image]312[/image]

This SAV Raindance calf is 124 days old in the photo and video.

Video of her:

http://bit.ly/2woTo4T

Her Momma, pictured below, was around 1500 pounds when this Raindance heifer was born (her baby is 2 days old in this photo). The heifer is out of our biggest cow, 2200 pounds (do you all need proof?) Fed her grain and haylage right up till she calved. Her condition was perfect. She settled to SAV Raindance with sexed semen, first try. ZERO, fertility issues whatsoever.

[image]311[/image]

For the sleuths on here, that was a "big ole fat" Colonel daughter that photobombed the calf above. 247 days old. Momma weighs 1875, open.

The weights of 2/3rd of the cows you gave is ludicrous. They are horribly ineffective animals. Say the average cow around here is 1300 pounds and weans a 575 pound calf (44% of bw). To be as efficient your 2200 pound cow would need to raise a 968 pound calf.

Assuming a 100 pound birth weight and 205 weaning age the average daily gain on that calf would have to be 4.25 from day one-not gonna happen.

Take 100 of your 2200 pound cows verse 169 cows that weight 1300 pounds (that's the same pounds of cow). If your cows averaged a weaning weight of 700 pounds (70,000) the 1300 pound cows raising 575 calves would out produce yours by 27,175 pounds!

 

[Dave]

I have said it before. Bring some of those over conditioned cows up here we will put them on a better diet plan than Jenny Craig. There is room on the one BLM allotment for another 30 cows. Hopefully they aren't too over weight because we will have to start out trailing them up a steep hill for a couple miles and it is about 3 or 4 miles to the gate they need to go through.

 

[True Grit Farms]

"I guess you didn't catch it when I said "bull bred", not AI. AI has a higher conception rate at any time, or condition."
Simm - I don't understand this statement at all. AI conception is NOT as high as natural cover. Never has been, probably never will be - if you are using a BSE tested bull.
Ron - overly fat virgin heifers would be the only detriment I can think of (for lifetime milking). "Most" of yours aren't obese, just overly fat.
Other than really obese cattle, "generally" fat cows will have less calving difficulties than thin cows.

Here is the kind of calf, my "morbidly obese", "over conditioned" heifers raise, any questions? LOL!

[image]312[/image]

This SAV Raindance calf is 124 days old in the photo and video.

Video of her:

http://bit.ly/2woTo4T

Her Momma, pictured below, was around 1500 pounds when this Raindance heifer was born (her baby is 2 days old in this photo). The heifer is out of our biggest cow, 2200 pounds (do you all need proof?) Fed her grain and haylage right up till she calved. Her condition was perfect. She settled to SAV Raindance with sexed semen, first try. ZERO, fertility issues whatsoever.

[image]311[/image]

For the sleuths on here, that was a "big ole fat" Colonel daughter that photobombed the calf above. 247 days old. Momma weighs 1875, open.

The weights of 2/3rd of the cows you gave is ludicrous. They are horribly ineffective animals. Say the average cow around here is 1300 pounds and weans a 575 pound calf (44% of bw). To be as efficient your 2200 pound cow would need to raise a 968 pound calf.

Assuming a 100 pound birth weight and 205 weaning age the average daily gain on that calf would have to be 4.25 from day one-not gonna happen.

Take 100 of your 2200 pound cows verse 169 cows that weight 1300 pounds (that's the same pounds of cow). If your cows averaged a weaning weight of 700 pounds (70,000) the 1300 pound cows raising 575 calves would out produce yours by 27,175 pounds!

You must be a commercial operation? The show ring group and elite breeders want the biggest fattest animals that they can produce.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Vet just culled his 5yo angusx cow, which only had one calf in her life time... Weighed 2138.5lbs. A friend knows, who has an angus cow weighing 2425lbs...I can imagine cows with such weighs of different breeds (Charolais, Blonde, Maine anjou etc.), but angus shouldn't be that heavy. Just my opinion...

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Grit said: "You must be a commercial operation? The show ring group and elite breeders want the biggest fattest animals that they can produce."
Bite your tongue. NOOOO. I consider myself a "show ring" farm and an "elite breeder" and I definitely do NOT want fat cattle. I do understand where your statement is coming from. Yes, a LOT of show cattle are way too fat and cattle going through sales are also way too fat. I have had to force myself to feed grain to sale cattle to get that extra $$$. But, mostly, they just get into "good" condition, not blubber fat.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I have said it before. Bring some of those over conditioned cows up here we will put them on a better diet plan than Jenny Craig. There is room on the one BLM allotment for another 30 cows. Hopefully they aren't too over weight because we will have to start out trailing them up a steep hill for a couple miles and it is about 3 or 4 miles to the gate they need to go through.

I'm putting together a group of candidates to breed to America, and the bull calves that I get out of them could end up at the Midland test, so we will see if they are worth anything in a hurry.

 

[Bright Raven]

Grit said: "You must be a commercial operation? The show ring group and elite breeders want the biggest fattest animals that they can produce."
Bite your tongue. NOOOO. I consider myself a "show ring" farm and an "elite breeder" and I definitely do NOT want fat cattle. I do understand where your statement is coming from. Yes, a LOT of show cattle are way too fat and cattle going through sales are also way too fat. I have had to force myself to feed grain to sale cattle to get that extra $$$. But, mostly, they just get into "good" condition, not blubber fat.

Good point. Fact is, producers do not "want" or have an objective of making their cattle fat. I started this thread because I am concerned my cows carry too much condition. My purpose was to explore what the harms might be. Right now as I post, I have 3 cows that are in the BCS range of 8. The rest are holding with conditions that do not concern me. Right at this moment - I have pastures that exceed any I have ever seen here. As TexasBred astutely pointed out, the areas I mowed about 3 weeks ago are absolutely spectacular. I have stopped mowing on his advice to let the pasture mature so they will not produce as much gain.

I have had over conditioned cows now for almost 10 years. I have ZERO problems with calving. I have assisted on a few occasions but only because I intervened when I didn't need to out of being inpatient. Regarding fertility- ZERO problem. The verdict is not in on longevity. I suspect the 2 or three that stay in the 8 range may have compromised their longevity. Regarding heifers, I watch their udders close to make sure that fat cells are not excluding mammary cellular development.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Grit said: "You must be a commercial operation? The show ring group and elite breeders want the biggest fattest animals that they can produce."
Bite your tongue. NOOOO. I consider myself a "show ring" farm and an "elite breeder" and I definitely do NOT want fat cattle. I do understand where your statement is coming from. Yes, a LOT of show cattle are way too fat and cattle going through sales are also way too fat. I have had to force myself to feed grain to sale cattle to get that extra $$$. But, mostly, they just get into "good" condition, not blubber fat.

Good point. Fact is, producers do not "want" or have an objective of making their cattle fat. I started this thread because I am concerned my cows carry too much condition. My purpose was to explore what the harms might be. Right now as I post, I have 3 cows that are in the BCS range of 8. The rest are holding with conditions that do not concern me. Right at this moment - I have pastures that exceed any I have ever seen here. As TexasBred astutely pointed out, the areas I mowed about 3 weeks ago are absolutely spectacular. I have stopped mowing on his advice to let the pasture mature so they will not produce as much gain.

I have had over conditioned cows now for almost 10 years. I have ZERO problems with calving. I have assisted on a few occasions but only because I intervened when I didn't need to out of being inpatient. Regarding fertility- ZERO problem. The verdict is not in on longevity. I suspect the 2 or three that stay in the 8 range may have compromised their longevity. Regarding heifers, I watch their udders close to make sure that fat cells are not excluding mammary cellular development.

Ron you are worrying about something that is not a problem.

Your cows are doing what they do best, they know how much they want to eat.

Your AI conception rates and cattle leave most people in the dust.

The crowd that has obese cattle, are stuffing them with sweet feed and cracked corn and keeping them in a lot that is 30 x 30 like pets.

When you are breeding your cattle the way you are, and this goes for others that are breeding high-performance animals, nutrition is key.

I laugh at the comments about my cattle and their fertility, I don't synch, I don't use anything special other than Multimin 30 days before they are to be bred, and guess what, they get pregnant, they have nice calves, life goes on.

You can be sure I'm not using that SAV America semen on infertile cattle. I don't burn money like that.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Raven i think it good for a cow to lose body condition when sucking a spring calf. I think they cool easier in the summer months with less condition. You are playing with cows and farming because you enjoy it. No need to over think it. My cattle always show good heats threw may and june. July and August is when they get slow. Branded is wrong about the 30x30 pen deal. It might happen some places but i have never seen it. Now bulk feeders on wheels in the pastures i have seen.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Raven i think it good for a cow to lose body condition when sucking a spring calf. I think they cool easier in the summer months with less condition. You are playing with cows and farming because you enjoy it. No need to over think it. My cattle always show good heats threw may and june. July and August is when they get slow. Branded is wrong about the 30x30 pen deal. It might happen some places but i have never seen it. Now bulk feeders on wheels in the pastures i have seen.

Does this look like improper condition? That heifer gave birth yesterday. SAV Raindance daughter from sexed semen. You know they have to be in pretty decent condition from a fertility standpoint, because you get a LOT less semen in those sexed straws.

http://bit.ly/2JNyFAt

 

[True Grit Farms]

I have said it before. Bring some of those over conditioned cows up here we will put them on a better diet plan than Jenny Craig. There is room on the one BLM allotment for another 30 cows. Hopefully they aren't too over weight because we will have to start out trailing them up a steep hill for a couple miles and it is about 3 or 4 miles to the gate they need to go through.

I'm putting together a group of candidates to breed to America, and the bull calves that I get out of them could end up at the Midland test, so we will see if they are worth anything in a hurry.

That's what I'm talking about, I hope your bulls do great and think they will. You need to put a creep feeder in with them asap so they learn how to eat out of a trough. The only problem you'll have is if the folks that buy the bulls use them on range. Charlo doesn't move well and it didn't look like America was any better. We'll see.

 

[Bright Raven]

Raven i think it good for a cow to lose body condition when sucking a spring calf. I think they cool easier in the summer months with less condition. You are playing with cows and farming because you enjoy it. No need to over think it. My cattle always show good heats threw may and june. July and August is when they get slow. Branded is wrong about the 30x30 pen deal. It might happen some places but i have never seen it. Now bulk feeders on wheels in the pastures i have seen.

I agree. Here are my pastures right now. That is what grass is like here.

 

[Bright Raven]

Raven i think it good for a cow to lose body condition when sucking a spring calf. I think they cool easier in the summer months with less condition. You are playing with cows and farming because you enjoy it. No need to over think it. My cattle always show good heats threw may and june. July and August is when they get slow. Branded is wrong about the 30x30 pen deal. It might happen some places but i have never seen it. Now bulk feeders on wheels in the pastures i have seen.

Does this look like improper condition? That heifer gave birth yesterday. SAV Raindance daughter from sexed semen. You know they have to be in pretty decent condition from a fertility standpoint, because you get a LOT less semen in those sexed straws.

http://bit.ly/2JNyFAt

That heifer (she is big, your trademark) is not over conditioned. BTW: calf already has her nursed and looking for more. I like that. Nice calf.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

You have good grass you could run more cattle and i am sure you know that. But like TB said you could do less and still be in good shape.

 

[Bright Raven]

You have good grass you could run more cattle and i am sure you know that. But like TB said you could do less and still be in good shape.

Yes

 

[True Grit Farms]

Raven i think it good for a cow to lose body condition when sucking a spring calf. I think they cool easier in the summer months with less condition. You are playing with cows and farming because you enjoy it. No need to over think it. My cattle always show good heats threw may and june. July and August is when they get slow. Branded is wrong about the 30x30 pen deal. It might happen some places but i have never seen it. Now bulk feeders on wheels in the pastures i have seen.

Does this look like improper condition? That heifer gave birth yesterday. SAV Raindance daughter from sexed semen. You know they have to be in pretty decent condition from a fertility standpoint, because you get a LOT less semen in those sexed straws.

http://bit.ly/2JNyFAt

That heifer (she is big, your trademark) is not over conditioned. BTW: calf already has her nursed and looking for more. I like that. Nice calf.

So what was the bulges at her tail head and brisket?

 

[Bright Raven]

Does this look like improper condition? That heifer gave birth yesterday. SAV Raindance daughter from sexed semen. You know they have to be in pretty decent condition from a fertility standpoint, because you get a LOT less semen in those sexed straws.

http://bit.ly/2JNyFAt

That heifer (she is big, your trademark) is not over conditioned. BTW: calf already has her nursed and looking for more. I like that. Nice calf.

So what was the bulges at her tail head and brisket?

I could see the outline of her pelvis. Udder was not fatty. I didn't see an overly fat brisket. There were some fat patches around the tail head. Maybe between a 6 and 7.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Does this look like improper condition? That heifer gave birth yesterday. SAV Raindance daughter from sexed semen. You know they have to be in pretty decent condition from a fertility standpoint, because you get a LOT less semen in those sexed straws.

http://bit.ly/2JNyFAt

That heifer (she is big, your trademark) is not over conditioned. BTW: calf already has her nursed and looking for more. I like that. Nice calf.

So what was the bulges at her tail head and brisket?

Baby fat. LOL!

That is Pure Alpha's 1/2 sister

 

[True Grit Farms]

That heifer (she is big, your trademark) is not over conditioned. BTW: calf already has her nursed and looking for more. I like that. Nice calf.

So what was the bulges at her tail head and brisket?

Baby fat. LOL!

That is Pure Alpha's 1/2 sister

She's nice, I had cows like that 5 years ago....and definitely miss looking at them.