Opinions on new bull

[Keren]

Since everyone thought he was a Charry and responded as such . . . I realised he was a MG but havent got around to posting yet. As someone familiar with the breed, from these photos he seems to be a decent bull. As has been said, adequate structure, adequate depth and length, good 'bull bits', I would be wary of the cow hocks and also keep in mind he is a little pinched in the heartgirth. That being said - he looks the spitting image of one of our show bulls when he has been joining and is down to his working clothes. The same bull has won many championships when he carries a bit more weight. My point being - I think if he had a bit of weight on him, he would go from 'average' to 'very good'. I dont think he'll ever be an outstanding bull, though.

Bottom line, good bull. I like him, and he should do fine. Just a question, whats his pedigree like, and given that he is a clean up, what bulls are you AI ing with?

 

[gberry]

I appreciate everyone's comments and was certainly not offended by your comments George. I can take some criticism and find I often learn more from a good dose of criticism. I was really interested in your response to my questions regarding BCS and feeding as we are trying to improve the fertility in our herd.

Keren he is a grandson of Wee Gun Tjandamarra and son of Monarch Oak Extra. I was mistaken on his age earlier, he is actually 5. This year we used Willalooka Power, M&M Ronald (a Power son) and Twin Fir Orlando. Do you have any input into potential sires to try? I really like the type of cows you post pictures of. I have found the available sires in the Murray Grey breed here somewhat limited.

 

[CowpokeJ]

Nothing wrong with that bull. Course, there's no way to tell until the calves are here.

If he was as fat as a butterball, everyone here would be raving over him. :roll:

I'd have to agree with Mike, depends on what the calves look like. As far as the MG, I be willing to bet Mike didn't get fooled....

 

[Chuckie]

Ain't nothing prettier than a big fat bull. But, this bull is not in bad condition. He's not overweight, nor would I say he is underweight. If I were advertising him in a semen catalog, he would have a lot more weight on him. We like that beached whale look then. I love to look at the massive size of a fat bull. He is a good size to be servicing heifers, smaller cows and older cows. We have some fat old 12+ year old cows that keep spitting them out, and are pregnant for next year. I feel better if the bull that services them doesn't weigh 2200-2300 lbs. He would look more attractive with some more weight on him though. The cows will too after you pull the babies off of them, and they regain their condition.

I wouldn't want him to get lower this winter, before breeding season. I'd give him another cow to hang out with in a lot and feed him while it was cold.

There isn't but one way to decide if he is a good bull, that is by how his calves grow off. The buyer doesn't care if he passes slightly cow hocked calves, unless they are deformed so that it cripples them. I have never seen a cow or bull down from being cowhocked. I look at some of the old cows we have that are 12 yrs+, and they are slightly cow hocked. But they can run as fast as the others, chasing the tractor with the hay bales, rubbing on them, butting them and bucking around until you can get the on the ground and put the rings around them. I had rather have slightly cowhocked calves weighing 700 lbs than straight hocked calves weighing 500 lbs.
Let us know how his babies turn out.
Chuckie

 

[Australian Cattleman]

George Monk I wholeheartedly agree that a "cleanup Bull' should be as equal as possible in quality to the bull used as an AI sire. I see it so often in our area people using inferior bulls just to get a calf. Nothing annoys me more than a person buying bulls from someone that is not a seedstock producer. I like to have a history in the cattle that I buy and I want predictable quality
Colin

 

[KNERSIE]

Nothing annoys me more than a person buying bulls from someone that is not a seedstock producer.

I want to add this to your statement...

...and then say the breed is worthless, because my last (insert breed) bull was worth crap.

 

[OK Jeanne]

I appreciate everyone's comments and was certainly not offended by your comments George. I can take some criticism and find I often learn more from a good dose of criticism. I was really interested in your response to my questions regarding BCS and feeding as we are trying to improve the fertility in our herd.

Keren he is a grandson of Wee Gun Tjandamarra and son of Monarch Oak Extra. I was mistaken on his age earlier, he is actually 5. This year we used Willalooka Power, M&M Ronald (a Power son) and Twin Fir Orlando. Do you have any input into potential sires to try? I really like the type of cows you post pictures of. I have found the available sires in the Murray Grey breed here somewhat limited.

Gberry, in case you don't have a photo of Monarch Oak
Extra, here's one from my files. He was working here on
our farm for two calving seasons - and we did like the looks
of his calves. We sold him to a Kentucky farm - his
GeneStar scores for the tenderness genes were not tops;
but the buyer was interested in producing show calves
and not beef.

Here's a photo of Silverdawn Jumbo, the sire we used for
7 calving seasons. He has all the tenderness genes, and
invariably had small lively calves that grew fast. We kept
many heifers from him. We did have him collected, and
have about 100 straws left at the collection facility in
Shamrock, TX.

Here's one of Jumbo's sons, Pancho. He is pictured at
3 years old. He's now sold to Two Rivers Organic
Ranch in Bennington, OK. I think they may collect him
later on. He also has a perfect tenderness score.

All 3 bulls have/had a very laid-back, docile attitude; and
I suspect your bull is also calm.

 

[gberry]

Thanks Jeanne. I did not have a picture of Monarch Oak Extra. I'm going to talk to the AMGA and, if I can get it allowed, I may try to purchase some of Jumbo's semen to use this spring. I like the cattle you post and know you think very highly of the bull (he also looks good).

 

[OK Jeanne]

Thanks for your note -- there's no question of being
"allowed" because Jumbo is double registered---he has
AMGA papers as well as MGIA papers.

 

[gberry]

Well, he's not on the list of approved AI sires to which I was referring.

 

[OK Jeanne]

Well, he's not on the list of approved AI sires to which I was referring.

We have not registered any of Jumbo's calves with AMGA,
but I think other people have. Here's the AMGA statement
regarding information needed:

"As of July 1, 2006 sires used in AI must have Blood/DNA Type on file with the American Murray Grey Association
before calves resulting from that AI can be registered. Addtionally, all bulls drawn after
January 1, 1999 for resale outside the herd of origin must also have a negative a-mannosidosis test result on file.

If you are using, or plan to use AI sires, please check this list. If you have semen from a bull that is not on this list,
please make arrangements to provide the Association with the necessary documentation. "

--------------------

We already have his DNA profile, and an a-manno test
result showing that he is free of that rare gene. In
addition, we furnish any semen buyer with a copy of
his Bovigen test result.

 

[usernametaken]

On that photo of his rear: you can clearly see some
ribs. He needs 200 more pounds & I suspect he
would look much more than just OK.

Well I am proud - as an extreme novice I thought Murray Grey the whole time and Charolais are all over the fields here. See what you've taught me Jeanne !

 

[ArrowHBrand]

Overall I think he's a nice looking bull and I would only want a little more cover over his ribs, but you don't want him massive either. People will debate a month of Sundays over a bull, likes and dislikes. However, it's really how his offspring perform that really matters.

 

[CopeMan]

Murray Grey

 

[preston39]

For a 5 YO of that breed something seems amiss.

He does not have a normal BCS and in fact looks unusually thin. Almost like he was deprived as a calf and not allowed to develop.

Do you know his early calf history/conditions?

Can you tell us what his last 6 months history is?

Breeding?

Wormed?

Good pasture?

Health problems/treatments?

Area..state... he was located in?

Did he spend the summer months in a drought condition?

 

[donnaIL]

I am starting to assume that Grays are misunderstood everywhere. the bull seems a little slow maturing in the neck but everything else looks great.

I am sure if you post a picture in a couple of years (yes I read here that bull mature in 5 yrs) he will look thick enough.

I'm in a fiesty mood...donna