Old Gert Question (Macon--you might be able to weigh in)

[saintgert]

I have a Jomar 54 daughter--bottom side breeding Top Gun 244 on Shaker's Playboy 720 x Cierra 433. Very solid heifer. She slopes just a bit from hooks to pins, shoulder's not bad, but wouldn't want it to be too rough, and she has a fair amount of navel--not too much, but enough that bad sheathed bull could make it too much. OH, and we value the polled gene (she is herself polled, but with a lot of horned genetics). We have 33 bulls in our semen tank and one working on the ground. she's a good enough heifer that she could work with any of them, but keeping those traits in mind some options are:

Cosgrove J 13/2 (I have heard that Jomar works well on Cosgrove bred cows re: milking)
El Capitan 5 302 (This is a Nine Bar 5636 son and the maternal grand sire of Lady Reno 044--a national champion in the early 1990s)
Tar Hustler 269/8 (Hustler 920xTT22/3 'nuf said)
DCR 521/DCR Megahoss 436 (two sons of 2T5/9--stud hoss on a hustlerxsuper mama daughter--bottom side Christmas breeding for 436 it's El Colina. 436 is scurred. )
LL Tripp 777/0 (polled LL farms bull who goes back to Cosgrove breeding on top)
Alamo 574/91 (a national champion, Briggs bred)
Christmas 26/2 (a Santa Claus 88 son out of the Yellow Rose 5/9 cow, making him a half-brother to Toot-toot 39/4)--this is in a tank in TN
Kincannon 211/7 (sire of the Fred bull. Partner 5723 son out of Kubecka 3796)--also in a tank in TN.
Nine Bar 3029 (a Clarendon 740 son. Would keep the shoulder clean.)
Herd Sire: Ace 38/5 (scurred Top Gun son, really clean, goes back to Geronimo 3983 and Cowboy 500).

In short, different bulls would fit different areas needing correction; my primary emphasis right now is on the levelness of hip. to look at EPDs:
The cow's are 2.7 17 18 -2 7
302 has the highest WW and YW EPDs at 17 and 22.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

I'd go with your herd sire first. Not sure which bull would level the hip best but I like the idea of linebreeding the Top Gun. Cowboy 500 and Geronimo in there couldn't hurt.

I haven't heard of a few of those bulls for a LONG time like Trip 7.

 

[saintgert]

Yeah...our herd sire actually fits the bill pretty well...but it's always fun to play with potential. We have a lot of old stuff--picked up a bunch from Richard Hood maybe two years ago, made some purchases from the Hualalai semen liquidation. Where possible, we look for nicks that will work (so for example, we know on a Tar Hustler calf to come back with Strut; come back on our current herd sire with Tar Hustler or something with a bit more power, but in general our herd sire's going to throw some good, clean calves), but in some instances experimentation isn't such a bad thing. We have two cows who should work with just about anything in our tank, but the follow-up will vary, which is what we're facing here.

 

[BC]

Jomar 54 was a Jomar 579 son (Jomar 579 was bred by Briggs). Jomar cattle have some thickness and were good cattle.

Cosgrove cattle will get you growth and stoutness but sometimes have sloppy sheaths.

I saw 9- 5636 backin the 80's. I remember him to be a big bull, lots of meat and bone, long hipped.

Tar Hustler 269/8 might work for you. The Hustler X TT 22/3 cross is probably the most predictable flush that the Santa Gertrudis breed has ever seen. Look at all the good cattle that came from that mating.

Some of the DCR cattle work really well.

Tripp 777 was long and deep. Need to watch the underlines.

Alamo wass a good thick bull. I saw some nice heifers out of him.

Your Claredon 740 son might also work. 740 produced some really pretty cattle.

 

[saintgert]

This is true...but he also owned an interest in Jomar 54 and Tripp 777 and Hustler 920 and outright 0678, another 5636 son, which is why I thought his input in particular would prove invaluable. I had asked him earlier about the Tripp 777 combination, and he seemed to like that idea, but now our options have expanded a bit as this heifer develops. I should have a picture to post soon.

 

[gertguy]

Seen some very nice heifers out of fred. Did you know he became infertile before he was collected agian and they saw his calves
Alan said Maverick died on him.

 

[saintgert]

That really stinks--i hope he (maverick) caught some heifers before he died. Is Alan seeking any recompense or is it just a loss? Yeah, I knew fred's production was limited--but his heifer calves are really nice. I think we're going to go with Tar Hustler on this heifer. seems like a good fit. Picture coming soon.

 

[saintgert]

Which reminds me...I think Dad just got his Carolina Cattle Connection recently with the Gert feature.

 

[gertguy]

I got mine and loved the article good job. I don't think so and Flying c was keeping semen interest and they don't know yet

 

[saintgert]

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!

 

[saintgert]

So, I can provide a little bit of followup on this post. We had AI'd the heifer to El Capitan 5 302, but that did not take, so we have since AI'd to Mountain Man 266 in an effort to make some more room in the tank thinking we only had one straw (and should work to smooth out the shoulder). Turned out we had three straws--(oops). Maybe we'll try 302 next time--which reminds me--greatgerts, if you read this post, can you let me know how that 302 daughter you bought from Darrell at last year's Mt. Laurel Classic Sale turned out?

By the way, we now have two full brothers to this heifer on the ground...they're not bad--we have plans to gain test both of them but will probably show one as part of a produce at the NC State Fair this fall.

 

[greatgerts]

The heifer is doing well. I was told by Delmo Payne that she will really bloom as a 3 year old. I was going to AI her to Remington, but when I was getting all of the cows in to take CIDRs out, not everything came in and didn't have an extra pen, so I had to let the bull do his work. She is bred to a ROHO/Geronimo bull. His picture will be in the District 6 ad in the August magazine. Very long and thick bull. Next time around, I may breed her to Caddo, Twister, or Sombrero. I would like to find some older blood to breed her to, but haven't found what I am really looking for yet. If I could get my hands on some Briggs 023/91 semen...

 

[saintgert]

We just picked up some 023/91 about a month ago during junior nationals. A quick call to Joe Jones or Darrell Pitchford should do the trick--I don't remember which facility sent what. Gary Harding/Robert Silva closer to you have semen on a Harris Farms 15/4 bull who is polled and pretty good.

 

[greatgerts]

I know the 15/4 is good. I bought a 75% from Silva at Polled Gold. I know some of it is from the Red Angus, but a very thick, clean heifer. She should do well. I will give Darrell a call. He and I were talking about Caddo semen this past weekend.

 

[BC]

Did the heifer conceive to Mountain Man 266? 266 had one of the best mothers to ever walk at Mayfair. She was a Maltsberger cow, a little snorty but raised one hell of a calf every year. 266 had a beautiful profile and would really clean up some heavy fronted cattle. Maybe too tall for today, but save a straw for when we make cattle too little again.

023/91 produces some really solid females. Maybe not the best "show" heifers, but thick, broody cows with good udders that maintain their flesh easily. I really like the bull and have AI'ed more to him than anyother bull.

 

[saintgert]

Not sure whether or not she took yet or not to the 266--that was maybe 2 weeks ago we tried to breed her, so still another week or two until she would next cycle, but we're excited to see how it'll turn out. I'm glad to hear the report on the front end--that's what the Jomar daughter needs. Dad ran into Joe Jones at the NJHS and Joe said he'd breed 023/91 to everything that walked by him, a bull ahead of his time.

The granddam of the Jomar daughter is 10 years old and a Cierra 433 daughter by Shaker's Playboy. When she next comes open/funds become available, have plans to flush by 15/4 then 023/91 (hoping)--she's decently clean, has plenty of frame, and I think both would work well on her.

 

[BC]

Not sure whether or not she took yet or not to the 266--that was maybe 2 weeks ago we tried to breed her, so still another week or two until she would next cycle, but we're excited to see how it'll turn out. I'm glad to hear the report on the front end--that's what the Jomar daughter needs. Dad ran into Joe Jones at the NJHS and Joe said he'd breed 023/91 to everything that walked by him, a bull ahead of his time.

The granddam of the Jomar daughter is 10 years old and a Cierra 433 daughter by Shaker's Playboy. When she next comes open/funds become available, have plans to flush by 15/4 then 023/91 (hoping)--she's decently clean, has plenty of frame, and I think both would work well on her.

Funny thing about what Joe Jones told you, he said the same thing to me at the 1999 NJHS in Little Rock. 023/91 is often overlooked in Gert circles. I will try to borrow a digital camera and take some pictures of daughters.

You might want to look at CVF 2022. He is a Geronimo son out of a 023 daughter. Ultimate Genetics handles the semen.

 

[greatgerts]

Not sure whether or not she took yet or not to the 266--that was maybe 2 weeks ago we tried to breed her, so still another week or two until she would next cycle, but we're excited to see how it'll turn out. I'm glad to hear the report on the front end--that's what the Jomar daughter needs. Dad ran into Joe Jones at the NJHS and Joe said he'd breed 023/91 to everything that walked by him, a bull ahead of his time.

The granddam of the Jomar daughter is 10 years old and a Cierra 433 daughter by Shaker's Playboy. When she next comes open/funds become available, have plans to flush by 15/4 then 023/91 (hoping)--she's decently clean, has plenty of frame, and I think both would work well on her.

Funny thing about what Joe Jones told you, he said the same thing to me at the 1999 NJHS in Little Rock. 023/91 is often overlooked in Gert circles. I will try to borrow a digital camera and take some pictures of daughters.

You might want to look at CVF 2022. He is a Geronimo son out of a 023 daughter. Ultimate Genetics handles the semen.

Ultimate has closed its doors. Try Camp Cooley genetics, or Bovine Elite. 2022 is a great bull. BC, you were at Nationals in '99? That was the only junior national that I got a chance to show at. Richard Hood told me that 023/91 was one bull I needed to look into. He had also said Navidad 519. I went with 519, and wish I would have gone with 023/91 then. I will talk to Joe Jones and see what kind of semen I can get my hands on. I think I have enough semen to breed all of my cows for years.

 

[saintgert]

Know that feeling re: enough semen to breed cows for years. And I'm glad Joe is consistent. It was funny--a few years ago asked him about Alamo right after we picked up some semen and he said that Alamo was a little outdated and didn't seem to have too high an opinion of him, but 023/91 got the precise opposite response. We've developed a pretty good collection of 33 bulls--which for a herd of 20 mama cows is a little overkill, but until nationals this year, the only polled bulls in our tank were:

Samson 407
Tripp 777/0
Top Gun 244
DCR Megahoss 436 (scurred)
Desperado 4465 (1 or 2 straws)

At nationals we picked up:
Sheriff 5577
Briggs 023/91
Harris 15/4

And coming in soon:
Kincannon 211/7 (sire of Fred)

I'm hoping we'll be alright with what we've got--but will keep 2022 in mind. Right now we're using a Top Gun son who's giving us some extremely clean calves. This year, we've had three really good bull calves, two of which we'll probably retain: one Jomar 54 son out of a Top Gun daughter and a Tar Hustler 269/8 son out of Shana Red, both of which should really complement our Top Gun son's daughters by giving them some of the power they are lacking while hopefully maintaining the polled genetics. We might have 5 animals with horns/scurs, of which we anticipate selling two next year.

 

[BC]

quote] That was the only junior national that I got a chance to show at. Richard Hood told me that 023/91 was one bull I needed to look into. He had also said Navidad 519. I went with 519, and wish I would have gone with 023/91 then. I will talk to Joe Jones and see what kind of semen I can get my hands on. I think I have enough semen to breed all of my cows for years.[/quote]

I took my daughter and son that year as we had two nice heifers. My daughter had a TT bred cow with a Twister bull calf at side that was winning the class until Tommy Brandenberger switched her and Anna McDaniel's pair after 3 pulls. The McDaniel cow was National Champion of the show. My son had a Winrock cow that had a Twister heifer at side. That Twister daughter when bred to Briggs 023/91 worked like a charm. Kept 2 daughters for the herd and sold the first one for some college money. That Twister daughter also had a Yogi bull calf that was outstanding.