Obsessive/Compulsive Sucking Disorder in Calf

[Lucky_P]

Egads. When I hear of folks still feeding a bottle to a calf @ 6 months, I just shake my head.
Agree, it sounds like every bottle calf I've ever raised. They'll suck anything that'll stand still for it.

I've raised hundreds of bottle calves. Never had one on the bottle for longer than 6 weeks - though I will say that nowadays, the dairy nutritionists are recommending a longer milk-feeding period for developing dairy heifers than they used to - on out to 8-10 weeks.
From Day One, at every feeding, and any time I happened to be passing by the calf's pen, I'd shove a handful of calf-starter into their mouths. Sure, early on, they usually would wallow it around and drop most of it, but they get then hang of it. Often had 'em eating 1.5#/day by 4 weeks, and always by 6 wks...would stop the bottle cold-turkey and they'd up grain consumption to 5 #/day pretty quickly.
Needs to be a good, tasty, aromatic ration to get 'em going. I've had some, from SS and other sources that were dry and unpalatable... Purina was always my go-to...plenty of molasses to get those babies WANTING to eat it.

 

[skyhightree1]

My calves learn to go into the feeders by seeing the other older calves do it.

 

[LRTX1]

I have zero experience. What about mixing a pellet type feed with milk so its a soupy mush. Then slowly removing the amount of milk you mix with it. Did you say he will drink out of a bucket?

 

[VirginiaMoo]

That calf reminds me of every bottle calf I ever raised. Until you get them off the bottle they will suck on anything. When I was growing up, I remember the dairy calves were always sucking each others ears, and if you got close enough they sucked on you. I usually only let one have a bottle for a few days or up to couple weeks, than I teach them to drink out of a bucket. I have always had great difficulty teaching a single bottle calf to eat grain or pellets and have never been particularly successful with that. I think they learn best through imitation. If they drink out of a bucket, you can sometimes convince them to eat the pellets or grain by putting it in their bucket. Be sure they always have plenty of good hay and fresh water to drink. At 6 months old, your calf is plenty old enough to be weaned. There is no reason to keep giving him expensive milk replacer. I would just put him out with the rest of the cows and let him eat grass. They will teach him to quit that compulsive sucking pretty fast. I never grain my calves, and they do fine. I could get them to grow a bit faster with grain, but I don't find that necessary. My calves are all sold at weaning except for my replacement heifers. Those heifers are plenty big enough to breed as yearlings, and calve as a two year old, on nothing more than good grass and supplemental hay when needed.

Just to clarify a couple of things.... This calf was only on milk replacer the first 3 months (he is almost at 6 months now). I only used a bottle for two weeks and then switched him over to a bucket. After 3 months I quit the milk cold turkey and expected him to continue to try to suck for a while (as the other bottle babies have done).... but did not expect it to last for 2 months without getting any better. About 2 weeks ago I started him on milk replacer again thinking that maybe he was missing something in his diet that was causing him to have the compulsive sucking behavior. Unfortunately, the week he was back on the milk did not change the behavior.

Thanks for your input letting me know that you do not grain your calves. That does make me feel a bit better... knowing your calves are fine without grain. If I did not get any good revelations from this forum, I was going to put him out with the herd for a while hoping they would teach him not to suck... and then bring him back in with the other minis. Any thoughts on how long I should leave him with the herd for that "lesson"??

 

[VirginiaMoo]

I have a mini zebu and mini donkey that I take places so kids can experience farm animals. We have gone to fairs, parades, done a kissing both at an elementary school fundraiser and countless other silly things. This calf (Moonshine) went to Chic-fil-a for their Cow Appreciation Day in July. He was a huge hit and the management wants me to come back for some other events. We live in an area close enough to the "city" and it amazes me how many kids have never seen farm animals in real life.

Hey, that's great! Sounds like fun and we need more 'embassadors' of "farming".

As for your plan moving forward, sounds good. That replacer is a decent one. Keep trying with the grain, eventually he'll get the idea.

What county are you in? Close to what "city"? Just curious.

It is really fun to see how happy the kids (and some adults) get when I take them places. There is a girl in the area who is blind and watching her feel a calf's nose, ears, mouth was just incredible. Her sense of tough is so strong and she was thrilled to be able to have a calf just stand there while she got to experience it through touch. We are in Prince William County and the "city" I was speaking about is Manassas.

 

[VirginiaMoo]

VirginiaMoo I know you probably don't want to hear this but... The amount of $ you can make off that one calf you surely can get another that will eat grain and be a better calf. If you have a ton of time to fool with that calf then I guess go for it. Cattle prices are too nice now to let one 4wt calf create that much work for you... Btw what county are you in ?

I know the calf prices are high right now.... we sent 2 heifers last Friday and they brought a LOT!! With this calf it's not about the money. He had a rough start to life and with my fiance being a vet, I was able to nurse him to health. I have done that with others and then they went to the sale, but there is just some bond with this guy.... thankfully I have the ability and resources to work with him. So for now, I will continue to see what I can do before throwing in the towel.

We are in Prince William County.

 

[VirginiaMoo]

From Day One, at every feeding, and any time I happened to be passing by the calf's pen, I'd shove a handful of calf-starter into their mouths. Sure, early on, they usually would wallow it around and drop most of it, but they get then hang of it.

This is a great idea!! Will remember this for the next bottle calf!!! What Purina calf starter do you recommend? I'm willing to go to another feed store and try something else. Thanks!

 

[VirginiaMoo]

I have zero experience. What about mixing a pellet type feed with milk so its a soupy mush. Then slowly removing the amount of milk you mix with it. Did you say he will drink out of a bucket?

I attempted this as well and he would leave the remnants in the bottom of the bucket, but I did at least get some of the grain in him that way. Just could never get him to eat it when I would lessen the milk amount....

 

[Workinonit Farm]

VirginiaMoo----thanks for the replies.

He sounds like (aside from his sucking issue) that he could work out to be another of the critters you take out for 'events'.

If you put him out with the herd, I'd make sure there weren't any cows with young calves at that time, just in case he tries to nurse and given his size and age he could take a significant amount away from a baby. Otherwise, they should kick him away right off the bat, and I would think a couple of weeks with the herd should help. You won't know until you try.

Good luck with him.

 

[jerry27150]

have seen beef calves live & grow on grass at 3 months with no problems

 

[TexasBred]

Egads. When I hear of folks still feeding a bottle to a calf @ 6 months, I just shake my head.
Agree, it sounds like every bottle calf I've ever raised. They'll suck anything that'll stand still for it.

I've raised hundreds of bottle calves. Never had one on the bottle for longer than 6 weeks - though I will say that nowadays, the dairy nutritionists are recommending a longer milk-feeding period for developing dairy heifers than they used to - on out to 8-10 weeks.
From Day One, at every feeding, and any time I happened to be passing by the calf's pen, I'd shove a handful of calf-starter into their mouths. Sure, early on, they usually would wallow it around and drop most of it, but they get then hang of it. Often had 'em eating 1.5#/day by 4 weeks, and always by 6 wks...would stop the bottle cold-turkey and they'd up grain consumption to 5 #/day pretty quickly.
Needs to be a good, tasty, aromatic ration to get 'em going. I've had some, from SS and other sources that were dry and unpalatable... Purina was always my go-to...plenty of molasses to get those babies WANTING to eat it.

Amen Brother !!!

 

[VirginiaMoo]

VirginiaMoo----thanks for the replies.

He sounds like (aside from his sucking issue) that he could work out to be another of the critters you take out for 'events'.

If you put him out with the herd, I'd make sure there weren't any cows with young calves at that time, just in case he tries to nurse and given his size and age he could take a significant amount away from a baby. Otherwise, they should kick him away right off the bat, and I would think a couple of weeks with the herd should help. You won't know until you try.

Good luck with him.

Thank you... I will definitely try this!!

 

[VirginiaMoo]

have seen beef calves live & grow on grass at 3 months with no problems

:tiphat:

 

[Katpau]

Three to four months is about the age I turn mine out with the herd. I don't feed them any different than the rest after that. They will be behind the other calves, but will eventually catch up. Since you are not looking to sell or butcher him, there is no reason for maximizing his growth right now. I haven't had a bottle calf in quite awhile. I have a nice set-up now, and have always been able to graft one onto another cow or get his mother to take him. It's not always easy but better for the calf. I bet if you had penned this calf with his mother for a few days she would have come around. I know it is natural to feel panic when the calf is not able to nurse immediately, and I think you did the right thing getting him colostrum right away, but I bet if you would have left him and the cow penned together in a small area, that the cow would have been ready to take him once her bag was full. It might have helped to milk her and give the calf the milk.

Many years ago I made the same mistake when I first began raising beef cattle. I found one separated from his heifer mother and when she did not recognize it after I brought it to her, I brought it home and ended up feeding it. I kind of wanted a bottle calf at the time and I didn't have a good pen with shelter to bring them into, so I know now that I acted too soon. Now I have a small pen with a roof at one end that I use as a sick pen or nursery. If a cow or heifer seems to be confused and not accepting the calf, I pen them where she can't get too far away. This happens mostly with twins, where the cow takes one and leaves the other. I once had a cow whose couple day old calf went missing. She ended up in a pasture a mile away, and started nursing an older calf. We found her calf a week latter where we had seen it earlier with the cow. It was down in a ravine by a creek and still alive. We took it home and fed it and went and caught the cow. We put them together, but she did not recognize the calf. She wanted the one she had stolen. We milked the cow and fed the calf again and left them overnight. By morning the hungry calf had managed to convince that cow to feed him. I was able to turn them back out with the others a few days latter. We have since split the ranch into smaller pastures and we rotate through them. I keep the cows in pastures under 40 acres until the calves are old enough to band together and keep up with the cows.

 

[boondocks]

Virginia,
This is not meant to be critical (I'm relatively new to cows and def still learning) but am curious as to the reasoning for breeding a 24 (!)-year-old who slipped a calf the past 2 tries? I ask because I would bet most people would either decide "hey, she's done her time. She can retire without having to earn her keep" (sort of a pet situation); OR "hey, she gave me some good calves over the years but it's time to go now."

Again, not trying to criticize, just curious...

 

[raykour]

Maybe I am missing something here, but at 400 lbs. why does one care that he won't eat the grain? In CO mountains, I calve in April. I wean my calves in August. Pasture is going and it is getting cold at night. I want them gone before winter (which here is mid-October) Folks buy my calves all the time and put them straight to grass. What is the issue if he doesn't eat grain? Is there an issue with your forage? I have also bought calves less than 400 lbs. and put them to grass. No issue.

To teach my bottle calves to eat grain, I funnel the grain into their mouths right after they finish the bottle. I kind of cup my hand and slide as much in there as I can. Some start eating fast, others not so much.

Personally, with a calf this large, I just don't see what the concern is.

And yes, I have vet "pet" calves milk replacer far past what would be considered the normal period for a bottle calf. So you aren't strange for doing that either

I have a 3 year old cow that will no longer suck on me, but if she sees a bottle, she gets going like a calf anticipating a bottle, so behaviors like that can hang on.

 

[Lucky_P]

raykour,
I once had a very wealthy - and eccentric - client who had a big,fat Beefmaster(aptly named Butterball) cow that was still being fed a daily bottle well beyond 2 yrs of age.
Guess if you've got plenty of money you can do that; and if it's a 'pet' and you get some joy from bottle feeding... well, whatever blows your skirt up.

For me, trying to make a little money off 'em, milk replacer/bottle feeding was the most expensive and labor-intensive part of raising bottle calves.
I wanted them consuming adequate grain and off the bottle as soon as possible.

 

[VirginiaMoo]

I bet if you had penned this calf with his mother for a few days she would have come around. I know it is natural to feel panic when the calf is not able to nurse immediately, and I think you did the right thing getting him colostrum right away, but I bet if you would have left him and the cow penned together in a small area, that the cow would have been ready to take him once her bag was full. It might have helped to milk her and give the calf the milk.

I may have forgotten to write this.... his mother was 24, dry and actually died 3 days after he was born. I do agree that what you are saying... there is nothing like a real cow (and it's a lot less work, too!!)!

 

[VirginiaMoo]

Virginia,
This is not meant to be critical (I'm relatively new to cows and def still learning) but am curious as to the reasoning for breeding a 24 (!)-year-old who slipped a calf the past 2 tries? I ask because I would bet most people would either decide "hey, she's done her time. She can retire without having to earn her keep" (sort of a pet situation); OR "hey, she gave me some good calves over the years but it's time to go now."

Again, not trying to criticize, just curious...

Thank you for inquiring! This was a big discussion I had with my fiance. This cow was born on our property and had never left. Our choices were to pen her off away from her herd, send her to the sale, or let nature take it's course and deal with what happened. After going back and forth, we decided the best choice for the cow was to just let nature take it's course. What kind of life is it to be separated from those you have known for your whole life? She was a great cow and I did not want to be panic stricken for her final trip. I did try to find someone to take her as a pet, but in the end I was unable to make that happen. In a perfect world, I would have found/purchased another older cow to keep her company and built them their own little area....

 

[VirginiaMoo]

Maybe I am missing something here, but at 400 lbs. why does one care that he won't eat the grain? In CO mountains, I calve in April. I wean my calves in August. Pasture is going and it is getting cold at night. I want them gone before winter (which here is mid-October) Folks buy my calves all the time and put them straight to grass. What is the issue if he doesn't eat grain? Is there an issue with your forage? I have also bought calves less than 400 lbs. and put them to grass. No issue.

To teach my bottle calves to eat grain, I funnel the grain into their mouths right after they finish the bottle. I kind of cup my hand and slide as much in there as I can. Some start eating fast, others not so much.

Personally, with a calf this large, I just don't see what the concern is.

And yes, I have vet "pet" calves milk replacer far past what would be considered the normal period for a bottle calf. So you aren't strange for doing that either

I have a 3 year old cow that will no longer suck on me, but if she sees a bottle, she gets going like a calf anticipating a bottle, so behaviors like that can hang on.

Maybe I'm wrong for even questioning why he won't eat grain. I'm getting a lot of good information from everyone (thank you!!) and seeing it really is not necessary. I guess my concern is the obsessive/compulsive sucking and that had me concerned something was going on. He does not look great.... he does not have a good topline. In horses, that is from lack of protein.... not sure if that is the same in cattle or not. I am taking a stool sample to the state lab today to check again for worms. He almost looks a bit wormy, even though we have tested fecal before as well as wormed him several times already.