Nuisance Dogs

[certherfbeef]

I thought of this thread early yesterday morning and had to laugh.

A Big bay mare was cleaning off the corn out of my garden. What she didn't eat she stepped on (wonder if the radishes were hot?). She had a halter on and was very well mannered. I moved her to a run lot that was empty and along the township road. She had water and grass and was very content and was out of my garden.
Bout 6 pm last evening, an amish boy stopped. Evidentally she was being ponied behind the buggy and came untied. The boy never looked back till he got where he was going almost 15 miles down the road. He wondered if the mare could spend the night here and his pa would be over today to get her. The boy appologized a million times over for the ruined garden.
Well, the old amishman showed up this morning. We've done business with him before, no problems. He had a buggy full of fresh produce. Corn, tomatoes, beans, peppers even radishes. He appologized for the boy's neglect and left the produce on the step. Now, I'm spending the day canning beans.
Sorry guys, off topic here. Just wanted to tell you about the stray that was in my yard yesterday.

 

[sidney411]

Thats funny cert! We don't have any Amish around here, but I would love to learn more about their way of life. To me a horse is a whole different problem then a dog - not the same sort of threat. I bet that was sure nice having all those fresh vegies though.

 

[preston39]

theres no question .any dog killing livestock is a dead dog. scott

Once a calf is dead it's too late. Why give them the benefit of the doubt?

Next time one of your cows gets out and is in the neighbors garden, guess he has the right to shoot your cow. Same logic here, just making sure this is what you mean. Your neighbors garden may have the same value to him as your cow does to you.

If a dog is harming your livestock or attempting to harm your livestock, then euthanize it. I agree and will do the same. Indiscriminate shooting of dogs or other animals I believe is criminal behavior and irresponsible. I have lots of dogs they roam the same pastures as my cows and calves. My dogs generally help keep other dogs out. If my neighbor shoots one of my dogs for crossing his pasture, me and that neighbor are going to have a problem. Anyone who has livestock has had them get out. If not, then you're new at this and you're going to have them get out.

========
SF,
Don't believe anyone would disagree with you...but, aren't you kinda mixing apples and oranges?

The origional point was dogs attacking/killing cows.

I don't think (hope not)anyone would kill an animal ruthlessly. I would hope a neighbor would not kill a cow for getting out. Thats different...what damage has she done? No other animal was harmed. Maybe a few blades of grass/vegetbles...while irritating...no comparison...and the damage can be paid for.
We had a cow get out and ate on a neighors garden. We offered to pay/replace damage and they wouldn't take it. They did insist that the poop pile be removed and cleaned which we gladly did. A couple months later we gave them about 100lb of prime beef...and offered more....along with manure for the garden when they wanted it..which they took.

I believe that is a little different than finding a 2-300 lb. calf chewed up.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Depends on the neighbor, got one if one cow gets on my place it's impounded. You stay on your side the fence I stay on mine. I do not share fences with any one. All my fences are set back from the property line by six feet. Same goes for dogs.

 

[milesvb]

theres no question .any dog killing livestock is a dead dog. scott

Once a calf is dead it's too late. Why give them the benefit of the doubt?

Your neighbors garden may have the same value to him as your cow does to you.

Must be one heck of a garden.

I've learned from (bad) experience. I'm not taking the risk of attributing benevolent intentions to some dog in the pasture then drive home and return the next day to find a dead calf.

 

[El_Putzo]

Preston, I think you might have misunderstood SF. I believe he is referring to those people who said "we shoot all dogs that come onto our property."

I agree and sympathize with those who have lost cattle to dogs and/or yotes. I just think that the situation bares more scrutiny than just shooting every dog that you see because he could potentially run your cattle. I think you should make relatively sure that the said dog is going to cause harm before you go shooting. Warning the neighbor (owner) of the dog is definitely appropriate, but the "shoot first and ask later" mentallity might lose you some good neighbors, or turn good neighbors into bad neighbors.

Case in point: I have a couple of redbone hounds. I keep one tied up and the other penned up most of the time. I let one out at a time in the evenings and they usually stay within the 300+ acres that I live on. I have had times where one was out and the other broke the chain or collar and they were both loose. Anybody who has hounds knows that when 2 hounds get together, they run, sometimes for days before coming home. Now, my hounds were raised around cattle and neither one will even pay attention to the cattle unless the cows try to run them off, then they may bark a couple of times to stand their ground and run on. Otherwise, they will run around or through the cows at a safe distance. No harm done. This being said, If I were to find out that a neighbor of mine shot my dog because it was supposedly running his cattle, he better be able to show me bite marks and the spot were the dog was standing when he shot it. If these things collaborate with his story, I don't have a problem. But, if things don't look kosher to me, you can bet your sweet little bottom that he will no longer be my neighbor, and he better remember that turnabout is fairplay. Most of the time cattle know what fences are for, but not always. The same goes for a dog. Neither can tell the difference between an interior fence and a line fence. I paid good money to enjoy my hunting dogs, but not to have them shot by some trigger happy moron. And no, I was not referring to anyone in particular with that last statement.

 

[dun]

Preston, I think you might have misunderstood SF. I believe he is referring to those people who said "we shoot all dogs that come onto our property."

I agree and sympathize with those who have lost cattle to dogs and/or yotes. I just think that the situation bares more scrutiny than just shooting every dog that you see because he could potentially run your cattle. I think you should make relatively sure that the said dog is going to cause harm before you go shooting. Warning the neighbor (owner) of the dog is definitely appropriate, but the "shoot first and ask later" mentallity might lose you some good neighbors, or turn good neighbors into bad neighbors.

Case in point: I have a couple of redbone hounds. I keep one tied up and the other penned up most of the time. I let one out at a time in the evenings and they usually stay within the 300+ acres that I live on. I have had times where one was out and the other broke the chain or collar and they were both loose. Anybody who has hounds knows that when 2 hounds get together, they run, sometimes for days before coming home. Now, my hounds were raised around cattle and neither one will even pay attention to the cattle unless the cows try to run them off, then they may bark a couple of times to stand their ground and run on. Otherwise, they will run around or through the cows at a safe distance. No harm done. This being said, If I were to find out that a neighbor of mine shot my dog because it was supposedly running his cattle, he better be able to show me bite marks and the spot were the dog was standing when he shot it. If these things collaborate with his story, I don't have a problem. But, if things don't look kosher to me, you can bet your sweet little bottom that he will no longer be my neighbor, and he better remember that turnabout is fairplay. Most of the time cattle know what fences are for, but not always. The same goes for a dog. Neither can tell the difference between an interior fence and a line fence. I paid good money to enjoy my hunting dogs, but not to have them shot by some trigger happy moron. And no, I was not referring to anyone in particular with that last statement.

The coon hunters around here would sure be POed if I shot all of the hounds that run across the pasture when they're running a coon.

dun

 

[milesvb]

Well now that the hound guys have gotten riled, I'll add something else. There isn't much coon hunting around here anymore (no, not because I shot all the hound dogs) but when there was, the folks that ran the dogs called around so we'd know what was going on. Occasionally we have hog dogs run through the place but always the surrounding landowners are notified. The hogs are not very welcome so most people don't mind the dogs (they're pretty well broken from messing with cattle). These hounds also have radio collars so it's pretty obvious that hounds sporting collars with antennas sticking out are out there working and not contemplating mischief. The same thing goes for bird dogs with collars. Bird hunters and field trial folks haven't caused any problems yet. The ones that I really worry about are the bigger yard mutts. Those are the ones that have caused the most problems so I grant them no quarter.

 

[Wilson_Cattle_Company]

best dogs i ever did have... they're rookie cow dogs... lol :cboy: :cboy: :cboy:

 

[Wilson_Cattle_Company]

 

[Wilson_Cattle_Company]

on the other hand.... i do not like cats! HAHA QQ

 

[Medic24]

Well, in retrospect ( i love that word!), I am not for indescrimate killing of anything cept yotes......but I would suspect most folks would agree, when a dog(s) has visited yr place, you usually only know about after the damage is done, they are long gone, then what do you do? :cboy:

 

[WORANCH]

Preston, I think you might have misunderstood SF. I believe he is referring to those people who said "we shoot all dogs that come onto our property."

Case in point: I have a couple of redbone hounds. I keep one tied up and the other penned up most of the time. I let one out at a time in the evenings and they usually stay within the 300+ acres that I live on. I have had times where one was out and the other broke the chain or collar and they were both loose. Anybody who has hounds knows that when 2 hounds get together, they run, sometimes for days before coming home. Now, my hounds were raised around cattle and neither one will even pay attention to the cattle unless the cows try to run them off, then they may bark a couple of times to stand their ground and run on. Otherwise, they will run around or through the cows at a safe distance. No harm done. This being said, If I were to find out that a neighbor of mine shot my dog because it was supposedly running his cattle, he better be able to show me bite marks and the spot were the dog was standing when he shot it. If these things collaborate with his story, I don't have a problem. But, if things don't look kosher to me, you can bet your sweet little bottom that he will no longer be my neighbor, and he better remember that turnabout is fairplay. Most of the time cattle know what fences are for, but not always. The same goes for a dog. Neither can tell the difference between an interior fence and a line fence. I paid good money to enjoy my hunting dogs, but not to have them shot by some trigger happy moron. And no, I was not referring to anyone in particular with that last statement.

You need to keep your dogs at home . As for as I'm concern they are trespassing and you have no idea what they are doing while they are gone .
I've seen dogs run deer to death while I was trying to hunt on my own place.
My neighbor kills dogs also so we don't any problems about that .

 

[WORANCH]

I don't mind dogs crossing through the field provided I don't see them chasing the cows. If I found a dead calf no I would not automatically start shooting all dogs that came onto my property. I have two chocolate labs and they will get right into the herd and try to play with the cattle just as if they were dogs. I know what they are doing but to someone else that doesn't I'm sure they would think they might be harassing the cattle. Sure would hate to think someone shot my dogs just because one of them was trying to kiss their cow.

I kill every dog that I catch on my place. Dog owners need to keep their dogs at home.

Live by the sword,die by the sword. Better make sure them cows never get out too. Hope your neighbors don't feel the same way about your cows.

My neighbors raise real cattle ( not dwarfs ) so we shoot all dogs .

 

[Crowderfarms]

With the exception of a Dog that has escaped, and poses no threat ( a dog you recognize),any good neighbor would keep their dog penned up. I can't risk losses from dogs, therefore they are dealt with accordingly, just like any other predator.At one time I gave them benefit of the doubt. But no more.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

I think Medic and Stocky bring up valid points, regarding possible retaliation by somewhat dog-crazy folks, and which brought to my mind a bizarre past experience that kinda gives me the creeps. I had a good, well educated friend 25 or so years ago that was an avid quail hunter, and he had a pair of GSP's that he absolutely adored. After some free ranging neighborhood dogs were poisoned my friend casually mentioned that he would have virtually no qualms about killing anybody that he believed had purposely killed one of his dogs. At first, I thought he was just blowing smoke and talking big, so I started to talk a little philosophy with him about his dogs, the potential consequences to his wife and kids of his killing another human in such a case, etc. Well, I think I have a pretty good BS detector, but after about a 15 minute discussion I became convinced that the guy was really that maniacal about his dogs and I wouldn't be surprised at anything he did if the situation ever presented itself!

Also, from time to time I've heard anecdotal accounts about deep east Texas deer runners and poachers that feel the same way about their dogs. And I've got one real seedy looking & acting neighbor (a real white trash sort of guy) that probably would't shoot me in retaliation for killing one of his dogs, but I have a gut feeling that he would have no qualms about exacting revenge at the expense of one or more of my cattle. I think it sure pays to know all your neighbors and their "dog philosophy" pretty darn well, and in virtually any case where you have to shoot a dog practice the SSS rule.

 

[stocky]

preston, I dont disagree with your statement about the revenge being the same if a llama killed the dog. So far, I havent seen a situation where a llama has caught a dog, but they have sure kept them run out of the pastures--now, in a couple of pastures, the dogs run along the road and not across the field, the llamas run along side the fence, it is a funny sight. I was told that it is best to run 1 male llama or as many as 2 females in a pasture with the cows. I was told that if you run more than that, the llamas will bunch up and stay together and not guard the cows----I am still learning. I now have 19 llamas and have them spread out but just bought 10 of them, so they are still together in a 275 acre pasture----they do stay together, so far. The other 9 I have had since last fall and have kept them seperated

 

[TLCfromARK]

I think that a few people are getting confused about the different meanings of "stray dogs" & "neighbor".

A neighbor to me is someone I know, can talk to, reason with and I know their animals whether they're dogs, horses or cattle. Someone who I help out at times and that helps me at other times.

If I see one of my neighbor's dogs in my pasture and they're not bothering the cows I don't bother them. If they're chasing the calves, cows, etc. I talk to my neighbor about the problem. I don't make threats, I talk about the problem and ask him to take care of it. If the problem continues I use the method mentioned by others here, SSS, and nothing else is said. If I'm asked about the animal I tell them I haven't seen the critter in awhile.

A stray is a animal that I don't recognize, there is very little tolerance for those animals around my place.

It may cost me a calf at some point but "good" neighbors meant alot to me.
;-)

 

[El_Putzo]

I guess I will just have to agree to disagree with all of you guys with the itchy trigger fingers, and be thankful that I don't have neighbors like you. Our neighborhood has only had 1 incident with a pack of stray town mutts. To us, these were obviously mutts that no one fed or took care of. That had no collars and ran in a pack of 4. They were mixed breeds. They had been seen in the neighborhood a couple of times, but never bothered anything, until the day they were chasing one of the neighbors yearling calves. He is a full time dairy farmer and usually carries a rifle in the truck/tractor with him. I guess he was lucky he caught them in the act. No harm was done to the calf, and 3 of the 4 dogs did not make it back to town. The thing was, to him this was obviously a pack of stray mutts.

I'm all for controlling your dogs (as I said, I keep mine penned or tied most of the time), but I still maintain that there is a difference between a couple of hunting dogs with collars roaming through, and a pack of mixed breed mutts with no collars. That's just the rule we follow: a maintained dog with a collar gets a free pass and a phone call. A mutt looking dog with no collar might get one free pass, but not a second. Yote's do not get a free pass either, as we consider them worthless, even though I don't believe they bother the livestock. JMO.

 

[El_Putzo]

You summed it up for me TLC. That is exactly what I meant, but couldn't say as eloquently as you. By the way, I was typing my response as you posted, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.