Not a beginner, but trying to start over, HELP

[tmay]

Hello how is everyone. I am new to the board but not new to rasing cattle. I live in Louisiana and i grew up on a 450 acrea farm that my dad owns and we have about 250 head of cattle. My dad recently turned 80 years of age and has done a okay job at running the farm. We mostly raised Commerical cows that we sell at the sale barn/auction. My dad is getting old and now has looked at me for more help at running/managing the farm. The only thing that i really know is what i have learned in my 26 years of following him around and i know some of the things he done we not in the best interest with raising cows. Now dont get me wrong, i have seen plenty of money that we have recieved from auctions, but deep down inside i know its better ways of doing things. My first set of questions consist of these:

1) We have all our cattle running together in 4 differnet pastuers. Heifers, bulls, calves all together. Is this the correct way or should they be broken up into age groups, sex or whatever.

2) In one field that consist of about 85 head, for the last 4 years we have had the ugliest crossbred bull running with the heifers. He an ugly grey color, small, has one horn, terrible frame, and just flat out ugly. We recently i sold him at the auction and are in the process of looking for a new bull. the heifers in this field has been back breeding for a few years and the herd frame sizing is getting smaller and smaller. I want to get a nice bull that will beef up the sizes of the cattle and eventually improve the herd. what breed would be best. In our area people love black cows so please take that into consideration.

3) we have a field that is about 100 acreas and the soil has not been turned over in over 10 years. I told my dad this winter that we should turn the group completely over and start fresh with getting a good quality field, but he insists that all we need to do is scratch the ground and that would get it. I disagree but what do you think.

Thanks for all your help and i will post question as i think of them

 

[Stepper]

I would reccomend you shoot a pm to Cypressfarms who is a member of this forum and also lives in your neck of the woods or in Lousianna anyway. And he is in my opinion a very knowledgible cattle man.

From what i know of him his back ground sounds just about like yours and if you live within driving distance of him. I bet he could give you some great advice. The reason i reccomend him is because his farming practices should work well for you since you both live in the same geographical location.

But there are alot of very knowledgible cattle men & women here on the forum who can give you alot of good advice also.

Good luck.

 

[alftn]

Think about quality not qunanity, cut you numbers, keep the best cows......Think about grass, get your pasture in shape....Buy good bullS to improve your herd, I use ( Black Brangus)....

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hello how is everyone. I am new to the board but not new to rasing cattle. I live in Louisiana and i grew up on a 450 acrea farm that my dad owns and we have about 250 head of cattle. My dad recently turned 80 years of age and has done a okay job at running the farm. We mostly raised Commerical cows that we sell at the sale barn/auction. My dad is getting old and now has looked at me for more help at running/managing the farm. The only thing that i really know is what i have learned in my 26 years of following him around and i know some of the things he done we not in the best interest with raising cows. Now dont get me wrong, i have seen plenty of money that we have recieved from auctions, but deep down inside i know its better ways of doing things. My first set of questions consist of these:

1) We have all our cattle running together in 4 differnet pastuers. Heifers, bulls, calves all together. Is this the correct way or should they be broken up into age groups, sex or whatever.

2) In one field that consist of about 85 head, for the last 4 years we have had the ugliest crossbred bull running with the heifers. He an ugly grey color, small, has one horn, terrible frame, and just flat out ugly. We recently i sold him at the auction and are in the process of looking for a new bull. the heifers in this field has been back breeding for a few years and the herd frame sizing is getting smaller and smaller. I want to get a nice bull that will beef up the sizes of the cattle and eventually improve the herd. what breed would be best. In our area people love black cows so please take that into consideration.

3) we have a field that is about 100 acreas and the soil has not been turned over in over 10 years. I told my dad this winter that we should turn the group completely over and start fresh with getting a good quality field, but he insists that all we need to do is scratch the ground and that would get it. I disagree but what do you think.

Thanks for all your help and i will post question as i think of them

Does he really want your help in managing the farm or in the chores? You are not going to change a old cattlemans opinion on anything, go slow as this is his life you are trying to change. Time will come and you can make all the radical changes you want. He needs to agree and enjoy the changes,

 

[Waymoore]

Hello how is everyone. I am new to the board but not new to rasing cattle. I live in Louisiana and i grew up on a 450 acrea farm that my dad owns and we have about 250 head of cattle. My dad recently turned 80 years of age and has done a okay job at running the farm. We mostly raised Commerical cows that we sell at the sale barn/auction. My dad is getting old and now has looked at me for more help at running/managing the farm. The only thing that i really know is what i have learned in my 26 years of following him around and i know some of the things he done we not in the best interest with raising cows. Now dont get me wrong, i have seen plenty of money that we have recieved from auctions, but deep down inside i know its better ways of doing things. My first set of questions consist of these:

1) We have all our cattle running together in 4 differnet pastuers. Heifers, bulls, calves all together. Is this the correct way or should they be broken up into age groups, sex or whatever.

2) In one field that consist of about 85 head, for the last 4 years we have had the ugliest crossbred bull running with the heifers. He an ugly grey color, small, has one horn, terrible frame, and just flat out ugly. We recently i sold him at the auction and are in the process of looking for a new bull. the heifers in this field has been back breeding for a few years and the herd frame sizing is getting smaller and smaller. I want to get a nice bull that will beef up the sizes of the cattle and eventually improve the herd. what breed would be best. In our area people love black cows so please take that into consideration.

3) we have a field that is about 100 acreas and the soil has not been turned over in over 10 years. I told my dad this winter that we should turn the group completely over and start fresh with getting a good quality field, but he insists that all we need to do is scratch the ground and that would get it. I disagree but what do you think.

Thanks for all your help and i will post question as i think of them

Does he really want your help in managing the farm or in the chores? You are not going to change a old cattlemans opinion on anything, go slow as this is his life you are trying to change. Time will come and you can make all the radical changes you want. He needs to agree and enjoy the changes,

Well said CB . I already respected you for your honesty and knowledge on here that statement just raised the bar for you.

 

[Beefy]

this sounds a lot like my situation. i'm still figuring it out. i'll have to get back to you.

 

[tmay]

NO, he really wants my help. Iam in graduate school now at LSU, majoring in biomedical engineering and i also pick up a few animal science courses to get some understanding. He is alway asking me to ask my professors this and that and what is the best way to do this and that. I understand what you are saying but i am not trying to take over, he understand his age and his limits and he has a healty son who is willing to help and learn. I have fourteen other siblings who wants NOTHING to do with the farm as we grew up differently and they hate the country, but i love it. THey are all in their 40-50s and i was the accident he had at 54 Year of age ;-) . In no way am i trying to take over, i live an hour away so there is no way he expect me to help with the chores. Iam not trying to make radical changes and thats why i have come to this board to get knowledge to do things reasonablly without radical changes being made.

also this is not only for him, i also have about 40 cattle of my own thats running along side his

 

[KenB]

Hello how is everyone. I am new to the board but not new to rasing cattle. I live in Louisiana and i grew up on a 450 acrea farm that my dad owns and we have about 250 head of cattle. My dad recently turned 80 years of age and has done a okay job at running the farm. We mostly raised Commerical cows that we sell at the sale barn/auction. My dad is getting old and now has looked at me for more help at running/managing the farm. The only thing that i really know is what i have learned in my 26 years of following him around and i know some of the things he done we not in the best interest with raising cows. Now dont get me wrong, i have seen plenty of money that we have recieved from auctions, but deep down inside i know its better ways of doing things. My first set of questions consist of these:

1) We have all our cattle running together in 4 differnet pastuers. Heifers, bulls, calves all together. Is this the correct way or should they be broken up into age groups, sex or whatever.

2) In one field that consist of about 85 head, for the last 4 years we have had the ugliest crossbred bull running with the heifers. He an ugly grey color, small, has one horn, terrible frame, and just flat out ugly. We recently i sold him at the auction and are in the process of looking for a new bull. the heifers in this field has been back breeding for a few years and the herd frame sizing is getting smaller and smaller. I want to get a nice bull that will beef up the sizes of the cattle and eventually improve the herd. what breed would be best. In our area people love black cows so please take that into consideration.

If I am reading this right, that ugly bull has been breeding his daughters. Why not start with this group of cattle. Get rid of ALL the poor quality ones instead of trying to up grade them.
Replace them with some good cows, and a good bull. Maybe when your Dad sees the results he will be willing to do the same in the other pastures.


3) we have a field that is about 100 acreas and the soil has not been turned over in over 10 years. I told my dad this winter that we should turn the group completely over and start fresh with getting a good quality field, but he insists that all we need to do is scratch the ground and that would get it. I disagree but what do you think.

Thanks for all your help and i will post question as i think of them

 

[Caustic Burno]

Tmay if your Dad really wants the help here are my suggestions.
Get your Dad to tell you why each cow should be culled and every cow has its faults.
First cull everthing old and young get rid of all the heifers bad bags etc from the list you two made.
Now you should have a base line of cows that know had to work.
Get in the truck with your Dad and go buy some homo polled bulls that he likes due to his age I would say Hereford as they are more laid back.
You have also generated some operating capital for various improvements with culling.
Now go slow on the improvements as you can spend a lot of money here fast and not have much improvement.

 

[Aero]

I want to get a nice bull that will beef up the sizes of the cattle

this might be the first mistake. more beef is fine, more frame is probably a waste. your environment will dictate what is optimal and from what i read, the trend t sallr frame probably isnt because your father decided to make them smaller. you might end up with larger animals that make you feel better, but are less efficient.

dont try to change the world in a day. make small changes and avoid extremes! many times when the next generation tries to "fix" the family operation, they end up making less or no money and 10 years later they realize the previous generation made their living from the cows that now cant make a penny.

 

[tmay]

dont try to change the world in a day. make small changes and avoid extremes! many times when the next generation tries to "fix" the family operation, they end up making less or no money and 10 years later they realize the previous generation made their living from the cows that now cant make a penny.

Hello again, but i belive you all are getting my intentions all wrong. I am not trying to be the kids who complains about what my dad does and how better i can be at the job, no thats not the case. Iam not trying to "fix" anything, but to be a help and to try and improve conditions. My dad is a very knowledgeable man and it will probably take me two lifetimes to learn all that he has. There is really nothing to fix, but i am trying to get advice on improving whats there and since iam the heir of 445 acres out of 450, it will be insane for me to try and learn it all , whan that time come.

For example, my dad has never dewormed his cattle. The only time he does, is when he see one is sick and then he will pin it up, worm it and let her back out. Its been many of times, i will have to get the tractor to drag a dead cowin the woods, because it has died because of old age or other health related problems. I believe oversights like this is a loss and can be somewhat kept to a minimum, and i just want to inquire knowledge about it.

so, iam not trying to expand into a fortune 500 company with my bright ideas. My dad understands that i have acces to teachers, professors, the internet and have asked me to seek knowledge on issues he really have no clue about, so the same mistake wont be made, wont take the same losses, and hopefully make more money.

 

[Aero]

For example, my dad has never dewormed his cattle.

the good part about that is that he has probably developed a worm resistance in his herd. if there are few worm problems, it sounds like he has reduced the inputs for upkeep. obviously, if there is a worm issue, they need deworming.

 

[tmay]

thanks for the reply. okay you say they might have a resistance, so would it be a waste of time deworming, or we deworm anyway.

 

[bigbull338]

thanks for the reply. okay you say they might have a resistance, so would it be a waste of time deworming, or we deworm anyway.

if you have a good set of pens that will hold them.id go ahead an worm them.it sure wont hurt anything.i havent wormed the cows in years.only worm those i know are wormy.

 

[Aero]

thanks for the reply. okay you say they might have a resistance, so would it be a waste of time deworming, or we deworm anyway.

some will say to worm them all no matter what because the ones with small worm levels will cost you in feed.

others will say that you save time and money by only worming when they need it.

this is a decision you have to make based on how valuable your time is and how available feed resources are.

 

[backhoeboogie]

tmay, There's been a lot of good advice and you have created a very good thread. The only thing to really add is that your dad knows that farm better than anyone else. What works BEST on that piece of ground will not be BEST on a piece of ground a few miles away. My guess is that he has tried lots of things in the past and is set on what works best, there.

Next, he won't be around forever. Treasure him while you have him. I trade everything I own to still have my old man running around here fussing at me.

 

[medic_941]

Next, he won't be around forever. Treasure him while you have him. I trade everything I own to still have my old man running around here fussing at me.




very well said

 

[Ryder]

Hello how is everyone.
I


1) We have all our cattle running together in 4 differnet pastuers. Heifers, bulls, calves all together. Is this the correct way or should they be broken up into age groups, sex or whatever.

2) In one field that consist of about 85 head, for the last 4 years we have had the ugliest crossbred bull running with the heifers. He an ugly grey color, small, has one horn, terrible frame, and just flat out ugly. We recently i sold him at the auction and are in the process of looking for a new bull. the heifers in this field has been back breeding for a few years and the herd frame sizing is getting smaller and smaller. I want to get a nice bull that will beef up the sizes of the cattle and eventually improve the herd. what breed would be best. In our area people love black cows so please take that into consideration.

3) we have a field that is about 100 acreas and the soil has not been turned over in over 10 years. I told my dad this winter that we should turn the group completely over and start fresh with getting a good quality field, but he insists that all we need to do is scratch the ground and that would get it. I disagree but what do you think.

I'm doing pretty well except my back is bothering me some. How are you?

Check with the ag extension people about the publication "Beef Cattle Management Tips" by Dr.Hollis Chapman. It contains some very useful information.
If it is out of print, see if they have something similar.
There is also "Beef Cattle Production in Louisiana A Handbook"
The first should be free, the second cost something.

As to your questions:
1. Any heifers you plan to keep need to be seperated from the bull. Best not to have him breeding his daughters.

If you sell your calves at weaning time,ok. But if you hold them longer or plan to keep any of your heifers, they should be seperated out, weaned, so they don't stay on the cow too long and pull her down.

2. If you want black calves, and if your cows have brimmer in them, get an Angus bull. If your cows don't have brimmer in them, my first choice would be Brangus and Angus second.
Either way, if you keep those black heifer calves and later breed them to a Hereford, you should have some very marketable offspring.

3. If you have good pasture grass, bermuda or bahia, and don't need to completely change your grass make up, I go with your Dad. Don't go plowing up your pasture if you don't absolutely have too. Keep the topsoil on top if you can.
I would say renovate, not decimate. ( I just made that saying up myself).
So, if you want to renovate your pasture, fine. Don't plow it. But main thing is to have a current soil test and make sure you are feeding your grass the nutrients it needs.

The best to you and your father.

 

[john250]

TMay
It sounds to me like your dad may be in dire need of labor. Does he have regular help? Reliable help?
Things like sorting a herd, vaccinating and worming a herd, even culling a herd take either first rank facilities and a couple of men or workable facilities and 3/4 men. At 80, let's not count on dad. My dad is 81 and won't stay home, but I try to make him an extra hand and not a primary hand. He won't say so, but he appreciates that.
I cannot recommend you give up a phD in biomed engineering to come home and run cows. Likely your career will take you even further from home.
I'd look around the neighborhood and ask your dad who he trusts.
Get references, get references, how many times can I say that? Dad might be more progressive if he was able to get the work done. Spend some on corrals--good ones.
I may completely misunderstand your situation. I've been wrong before. Think about it.

 

[tmay]

hi, thanks for all your replies.

First the ugly bull i was talking about was born and raised on the farm. My dad say he is a bull calf that was hard for him to catch so he just stayed with the heard. SO whenever primary bull for that pasture died the ugly bull just stayed behind and finally took over. One night after a big rain storm we found the main bull floating in the pond dead and we dont know what happened and thats when theugly bul took over. He is about 4-6 years of age and have been breeding his sisters, daughter, and maybe his mother (does this happen).

Iam getting soil test done this week on campus. I have access to the ag lab and will be getting test done on the soil. One question about soil testing. What part of the soil am i actually testing. How deep should i go, and how much should should i bring ( a bag full or a 5 gallon bucket full, to get good results