New Member concerned about Huge Growth

[nemecekj]

I am a new member, and I need some help. :?:
My bull is about 4 yrs old, and weighs about 1700 lb.s
A little more than a month ago a mass grew on his shoulder almost overnight. It started out just about the size of a football, right on the blade area, if I remember correctly. The local vet said to give antibiotics for a week, fearing a snake bite... but that didn't help. Over the past weekend it has spread from his shouder down around the left leg and down his chest, filling what would normally be the flap of fat and skin that hangs off of the chest. This growth is hard as rock, and has not affected his eating habits or behavior. Can anyone help me?? I've been trying to find something on the web all day![/u]

 

[jerry27150]

why didn't vet give him something for a snake bite if that's what he thought. don't know what else it could be. i would call that vet back & see what he says

 

[nemecekj]

He thought it was an infectioncaused by a snake bite that's why he gave antibiotics, my worry is why it spread so much after being there for a month?

 

[Chuck]

That doesn't sound good. Have you called the vet back since a month ago? Since we can't see him, seems like that would be the best idea.

 

[nemecekj]

He is going to see a different vet tomorrow, so hopefully this one has a different idea. If something had bit him he should have gotten worse a long time ago! Not a month later!

 

[jerry27150]

don't know what it would be. let us know what new vet says

 

[TheBullLady]

I doubt it was a bite.. that doesn't sound like the progression that a snake bite would follow.

It's good that he doesn't seem to be affected physically at least by the mass, but without a doubt he needs to see another vet.

Let us know what he says!

 

[Beefy]

thats what they always say when they dont have a clue, snakebite. we had a heifer do like this except it was behind her jaw and the original swelling was more like a softball, then football, then basketball. then the fluid drained and settled in her brisket area like you described. we treated with oxytetracycline and the swelling (fluid accumulation) finally went down not to normal but close enough and we sold her. my guess is if he didnt have a puncture wound that got infected he was probably kicked and that got infected (had a mare at work that this happened to and she accumulated fluid the size of a basketball in her chest, it was a staph infection--they said its fairly common in cattle but not horses)

 

[jerry27150]

we said we didn't know, that's why we were waiting for you

 

[nemecekj]

Thank you so much. I want to keep getting possible scenarios, but this sounds pretty close! I have really been stressing as they have a small operation, and well, He's the only bull...

 

[SF]

Thank you so much. I want to keep getting possible scenarios, but this sounds pretty close! I have really been stressing as they have a small operation, and well, He's the only bull...

Let us know what the vet says.

 

[Beefy]

thats what they always say when they dont have a clue, snakebite. we had a heifer do like this except it was behind her jaw and the original swelling was more like a softball, then football, then basketball. then the fluid drained and settled in her brisket area like you described. we treated with oxytetracycline and the swelling (fluid accumulation) finally went down not to normal but close enough and we sold her. my guess is if he didnt have a puncture wound that got infected he was probably kicked and that got infected (had a mare at work that this happened to and she accumulated fluid the size of a basketball in her chest, it was a staph infection--they said its fairly common in cattle but not horses)

to clarify, by "they" i meant the vets. large swelling + dont have a clue = snakebite. with horses if they dont know its foundering.

 

[Vicky the vet]

Well, I have never diagnosed a lump as being a snakebite. And I've been practicing for a little over 19 years, so I disagree with beefy's comments.

A competant veterinarian will examine the swelling, ballot it if possible, take the temp, clip, prep and do a needle biopsy of it to determine the cause. Bloodwork, ultrasound exam etc is also possible. Heck, we'll even occasionally lance the darn thing to get a piece of it or drain it without knowing what it is...

V

 

[certherfbeef]

Well, I have never diagnosed a lump as being a snakebite. And I've been practicing for a little over 19 years, so I disagree with beefy's comments.

Vicky, you are not the average vet. You should know that by now. And you should know we all know that too. Unfortunatly there are a lot of less than average vets out there.

 

[Beefy]

Well, I have never diagnosed a lump as being a snakebite. And I've been practicing for a little over 19 years, so I disagree with beefy's comments.

Vicky, you are not the average vet. You should know that by now. And you should know we all know that too. Unfortunatly there are a lot of less than average vets out there.

i agree with what cert says here.

A competant veterinarian will examine the swelling, ballot it if possible, take the temp, clip, prep and do a needle biopsy of it to determine the cause. Bloodwork, ultrasound exam etc is also possible. Heck, we'll even occasionally lance the darn thing to get a piece of it or drain it without knowing what it is...

keyword here is competent. snakebites arent that common up there anyway are they? i can treat my animals myself for the most part, if i call a vet its always for something freakish that i dont know how to treat. vet always says " why cant you call me out for something normal (sometimes he'll say simple instead of normal)?" and i tell him b/c i can treat normal. anyway, didnt mean to disrespect all vets, sorry if i rattled your feathers Vicky.

 

[nemecekj]

I can't believe it you guys...The vet kept asking Dad "How much is he worth?" Throughout the exam. Dad told him he doesn't know, but he figures a good bit because the bull is a registered Angus... We don't know much about how much they are worth, because we rarely sell... we just breed them and keep them. Anyway, When the vet heard he was a registered Angus he said, "Oh, cause I was gonna tell you to take him to the sale barn and try to get a nickel for him." Can you beleive that? So now that yet another vet has no clue, and is ready to give up on him, so are my parents! When I work at a university whose vet hospital is absolutely top notch, deals a lot in cattle, and would only charge $65 to do the exam, ultrasound, and cytology on it! Yeah, it would cost more for treatment, butyou can't treat it if you don't knowwhat it is in the first place!This is crazy and I know it's killing dad... that's the thing... if we don't get them sold as soon as they are weaned, they never leave... we get way too attached... and now he's gonna give up on him! Yeah right! What if it is genetic... He (the vet) thinks it might be, and while he has several ideas... If he is actually right about one, half the heard might die from it since allmost all of them are his offspring!

So I'm rambling... I guess my question is... what would you do?

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I guess the question is whether its affecting his ability to breed. If it is, I'd treat it the same way I treated a broken leg or a broken uno, I'd either put him down or ship him. Its not uncommon to lose bulls from injuries and although its not good, it's just a cost of doing business. If the vet thinks that it could be genetic, I'd be very careful about keeping replacements off of him. Good Luck.

 

[TheBullLady]

I'd haul him to the university! If the tests, etc. will only cost $65, isn't it worth that just to know? You can always decide whether to keep him or treat him once you know what it IS. As it is now, you're shooting in the dark.

You can figure pretty close to what he'll bring at the auction.. you just have to decide if he's worth the $$ to keep.

 

[Medic24]

I am not a Vet, don't pretend to be one, and don't play one on tv, But I sure am glad I got me a good one arounf here ( you reading this Doc?)
Anyway, more question then statement.....I can understand growths that grow over time as being genetic, but this one appeared so fast.......... still be considered genetic?

 

[jerry27150]

be pretty rare if his offspring would get it. i'd shoot him or render at sale barn. why waste the 65 bucks, chances are he will never be right. time for a new bull