New here, Have a few questions

[phaux]

Just like to say hi to everyone, been reading posts for a fews hrs now and have a few questions. About a year back I bought 20 acres in Commerce, Tx. I'd like to put a handful of cattle on it to raise for fun and make a few bucks if I can. I've had two neighbors tell me that the grass on the land isn't very good, and I know the land hasn't been fertilized in over a year. I'm looking to stay away from any dairy cattle and will be going out to my land about 3-4 times a month to take care of stuff and check on the animals.

What's a good hardy, decently priced beef cow and how many many could I keep on 18 acres so as I don't have to feed them lots of hay?

I'm currently putting up a barb wire fence, 5ft tall 5 strand, and am also looking to put up an electric fence. How many hot wires should I run and how many volts? Will be around 3,400 linear feat.

With fertilizer being as expensive as it is right now are there any organic/cheaper alternatives?

What all types of grass should I plant?

I'm looking to put in about a 1/4-1/2 acre stock pond. Will this be enough for the cattle?

And lastly, would 5 strands of barb wire and an electric fence keep sheep or goats in?

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[rockridgecattle]

Cattle and have fun ....yes
cattle and make money....ahahahahahaha
a few feeders might be a good idea then you can market locally. We are mainly AngusX but have no idea about what works in texas.
2000 volts is good to keep cattle in preditors out 5000.
A three strand fence with two wires...middle and top zapped is all we use. A good fence like that keep cattle in.

Organic alternatives...the cows

Our experience with sheep a barb wire fence 5" apart means nothing to sheep if there is something better on the other side...hot or not. Page wire of some sort works better.
Talk to your ag office about what grass works in your area, get the soild tested to see what nutrients are there and what are not to decide what to spread on.

If you are onl going to be there 3-4 times a month, breeders are not the way to go unless you have in mind a high death loss.

 

[phaux]

2000 volts is good to keep cattle in preditors out 5000.
A three strand fence with two wires...middle and top zapped is all we use. A good fence like that keep cattle in.

If there's green grass on the other side will that still keep them, they won't try and push though? As for predators, I've been told donkeys and llamas work as well. Anyone elses input on these animals?

If you are onl going to be there 3-4 times a month, breeders are not the way to go unless you have in mind a high death loss.

Why is that?

 

[grannysoo]

Donkeys are good, don't know about llamas. I do know that my Anatolian Shepard dog takes good care of my cows.

By the way, you know how to make a little money with cows? (Start with a lot.....)

 

[rockridgecattle]

Why is that?

Because calving takes alot of work, because if even the skin is over the nose just after birth and you are not there, the calf will suffocate in minutes. A cow might need to be milked so the calf can suck, calving might be tough and the calf might be slow to get the first suck within two hours. That colostrum in the first suck is so important. It Provides the antibodies for the calfs first few months of life. A calf is born with zero immunity and it gets what it needs from the mommas first milk. It's called passive transfer. Their are so many reasons you need to be there keeping an eye on things.
If a cow is calving and the foot is back or a backwards calf, you could end up with a dead calf and possibly a dead cow.

How are you going to service the cows with a bull? Will the bull be with the cows 365 days a year?
We have a defined season for calving. during this time we work 24/7 to ensure a healthy crop.
When you take into account the feed the cows eat each year, the tractor usage cost, vaccinations, repairs to tractors or infrastucture like a chute and head gate for treating, vaccinations, fences, fertilizer, fuel, a loss of one calf can mean alot.

You talk about fences, but what are you going to do if an animal gets footrot, pnemonia, calving, need work on the jaw or teeth due to a puncture from a twig or what not, trim the feet, and any other host of illness...how are you going to treat? If you think you can just walk up to a 1200 pound cow or a 2500 pound bull and give a needle...good luck.

Having cows which are intended to be bred and calve and raise an baby require more than a good fence and grass. It's a good start...

 

[phaux]

I hear what your saying.
In regards to a bull I would probably borrow one when need be. I can be there more than 3-4 times a month, could stay there a week or so if need be. As for anything metal such as a chute, I'm decent at welding. Tractor repair I would take care of myself.
But I guess what your saying is breeding cows and selling them wouldn't be the best route, what about buying calves, fattening them up then selling?

 

[rockridgecattle]

buying and raising feeders is not my area of experteze. I am a cow/calf. What i do know about buying feeders is you need a good reputable source. A source that has a good vaccination program.
You also need to have a good vaccination program. As well, you need good fences which you have in order.
As for renting bulls, around here guys are not to keen on that anymore for several reasons. Some are :
renters have a tendancy to return them in poor rundown shape, because they given too many animals to service
tricamonis (SP) a STD
the fact that buyers are less willing to buy used bulls
good bull sellers sell bull that are vaccinated. Renting to a person who does not vaccinate can put his bull at risk. A new renter might not be so keen on that point, neither would a buyer for a 1800-5000 dollar bull.

 

[larryshoat]

Can not imagine having cattle and not looking at them at least once a day .

Larry

 

[smallrancher]

I cannot comprehend not looking at my cattle once a day either. BUT, Rockridge, you either have a tendancy to exagerate a little, or you have waaayyy to many herd health issues and that may need to be looked at. As for the original question, a cow/calf operation is probably not your best option as it does take more than stopping in every now and then, just not to the extent of a couple posts back. You may want to look into stockers, maybe there is a neighbor that wouldn't mind keeping an eye on things for you. Also, I certainly don't mean any offense here, but why are you looking to get cattle for "fun" if you will be around them so little. Seems to me you could have that much fun looking at someone elses 3 to 4 times a month. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[TheBullLady]

I agree with the other posters.. raising cows that are expected to calve on property you're only going to visit a few times a month doesn't make much sense.

Perhaps you can get 4 or 5 head of young stocker cattle and feed them out and sell the meat. However, this also has it's own problems with your set up, because if you don't have good pasture, they will have to be fed in order to gain weight. If you're only there a few times a month, you won't be able to feed them.

I don't know anything about sheep or goats, but that may be your better option.

 

[dun]

This late in the year, how about just renting out grazing

 

[phaux]

I'm not looking to buy them too soon. Still have to build a pond, do something about the grass, and do a few other things. Just wanted to get some ideas on what all I might need extra that I haven't thought of.

 

[dun]

When you build the pond, give some thought to having a waterer fed via pipe from the pond so that the cows can water without having direct access to the pond. Pond will last a lot longer and the cattle water will be much cleaner. Plus you don;t need to worry about them getting bogged down in it. Also makes the pond more enjoyable to fish in.

 

[ScottP]

I'm on the other side of DFW from you and here the best grass is Coastal, I'm not sure how well it will do with more tree cover that I would assume you'll have over there, but talk to your local Texas cooperative extension agent and they will be more than happy to help, after all that's what our tax dollars are paying them for. Anyway I have a few videos on my site about somethings you might need to know, some you probably do.

Forage Quality: talks about grass and how cows digest it, when it's at it's best and storage of any forage or silage that you may need.
http://www.24-7agtv.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=1&task=videodirectlink&id=67

Econmoics of Reproduction: the title just about says it.
http://www.24-7agtv.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=1&task=videodirectlink&id=66

As far as what breed, alot of breeds do well here, though the further south you go the more likely you'll need some sort of brahman influence, but where you're at you've probably got a large selection of breeds to choose from. Around here we have angus, hereford, simental, chianina, brahman, santa gertrudis, and about fourteen hundred more.

 

[rockridgecattle]

BUT, Rockridge, you either have a tendancy to exagerate a little, or you have waaayyy to many herd health issues and that may need to be looked at.

How am i exagerating at what can go wrong?
How is a foot back during calving a health issue, or how is a mal presentation during calving a mal issue or a tendancy to exagerate? Have you never had the skin over the nose at calving and lost a calf...It happens. It's not a health issue. And if you are not there to assisst then you have a dead calf and possibly a cow!
How is getting timely colostrum an exageration?
Things like foot rot happen
Things like pnemonia happen...we have not had a case since we started to vaccinate but it still can happen
Things like scours can happen...can you control the weather in the spring?
things like a twig caught in a tongue or jaw or alfafla stem caught or barley awn caught can happen especially if you feed hay 8-10 months out of the year.
A new person getting into cows needs to be aware of the possible problem and be ready for them.
"Uh please help I have a cow that is breathing heavy, loosing weight what can i do?"
"First take the temperatue"
Uh how?"
" restrain the animal and stick a thermometer up the butt"
"If we don't have any thing to restrain the animal what next?"

Seen this to many times
Or seen people injured cause they so not have some sort of of infrastucture to keep them safe.
You must have an amazing herd not to have any problems at all...past present and future!

 

[smallrancher]

rockridge, I do not have an amazing herd, I do have my problems. But you seem to be into discouraging people, when you talk about, say for instance, doing teeth or jaw work because of a puncture from a twig. Give me a brake!!!! Lets cover the basics for a beginner, not the one instance that happened to you once. FOOTROT, if you've got footrot in your beef herd regularly, GET OUT NOW rockridge. Remember I'm in the same climate as you, as far as climate related illness goes. I don't mean to attack you, but I've seen some of your other posts, and it seems to me you may be better off sticking to asking the questions than trying to answer them.

 

[rockridgecattle]

rockridge, I do not have an amazing herd, I do have my problems. But you seem to be into discouraging people, when you talk about, say for instance, doing teeth or jaw work because of a puncture from a twig. Give me a brake!!!! Lets cover the basics for a beginner, not the one instance that happened to you once. FOOTROT, if you've got footrot in your beef herd regularly, GET OUT NOW rockridge. Remember I'm in the same climate as you, as far as climate related illness goes. I don't mean to attack you, but I've seen some of your other posts, and it seems to me you may be better off sticking to asking the questions than trying to answer them.

You've never done the flush the the mouth due to an absess because of something in the jaw? Good for you.
Last year flushed the jaw on a cow that got a possible barley awn puncture. Wasn't something we thought could happen, but it did. It might have been from alfalfa hay stem but it had to be done. The point i was trying to make was things happen that you do not expect. Had we not had some sort of chute in place we would not have been able to treat it. The dang cow would have cost more to treat if we had to take her to the vet because did not have the facilities. Oh wait if we did not have the facilites just a good fence how would we have gotten her loaded up to take to the vet. That was the point i was trying to make. You need to know what can happen so you are prepared. If you want to be a good cattle person.
2 cases of foot rot in about 8 years...both times due to excessive moisture
no pnemonia in cows or calves in about 8 years
96 calves this year 3 cases of scours that needed to be treated 0 deaths
96 calves 1 death in calving this year due to it being a premie
We are not a perfect ranch but one thing we do well is cows

I'm not trying to discourage but to give a reality check that there needs to be more in place than just a good fence and a peek 3-4 times a month. A prospective Cow/calf operator needs to know what can happen.
You say you are not trying to attack me but in this thread you've gone out of your way to just because I view things differently than you. I view it as be prepared, expect the unexpected other wise it could cost you a calf or a cow or your life...reality.

 

[djinwa]

If you won't be around always, and want fun, try Longhorns. They got along fine for hundreds of years on their own without a babysitter.

I'm not a cow/calf guy, but I can't imagine having to be right there when every calf is born to pull the membrane off the calf's nose.

 

[farmwife]

I would contact the ag dept. at TAMU Commerce. They will be a great resource for you.

 

[TXBobcat]

If you won't be around always, and want fun, try Longhorns. They got along fine for hundreds of years on their own without a babysitter.

I'm not a cow/calf guy, but I can't imagine having to be right there when every calf is born to pull the membrane off the calf's nose.

We raise Texas Longhorns, and calving ease is one of the traits I like about these cattle. I have not had to pull or assist with any births in the 6 years I have been looking after these cattle. They would be a good choice for someone who cannot see their cattle everyday.

However, I agree with others that say a good infastructure is a must. If you are going to mess with cattle, I believe you should have good fences, some kind of working/loading pens, and a way to restrain the animals (i.e. headgate, chute, medina hinge).
I treat our Texas Longhorn cattle like any other breed. They are vaccinated/wormed annually, and doctored on occassion. We had one heifer this year that was treated for lumpy jaw. We ran restrained her in a headgate, and lanced and drained the lump. She healed up fine, but it would have been quite a task without good working facilities.