Net wrap hay?

[tom4018]

Does it keep much better than hay that is just twined wrapped when stored outside?

JD did demo up the road and told the guy to set 3 twine and 3 net bales aside and feed them last to see the difference. Of course they are really pushing the net wrap.

 

[dun]

A couple of years the U of MO had a study that should there wasn;t much difference between net wrapped and tightly rolled with 4 inch twine spacing. If you keep it a couple of years I'm sure there is a pretty big difference. We have twine 4 inch psacing prairie hay thats 3 years old and net wrapped fescue that 2 years old and the cows clena up the tine hay better, but that may very well be that it's a better tasting hay. They both have a little discolored funkiness in for a couple of inches but the inner part is still good. Seems like it's about 3-4 inches of funk on both types.

dun

 

[somn]

I have net wrap on all my balers. I was skeptical about putting it on my first baler with the extra $2800.00 price tag but I tried it. I would never use twine again. Infact my last baler I purchased I ordered it without the twine arms on it. Side by side a twine bale and a net wrapped the net wrapped bale will stay in condition for atleast 10 times longer. It is well worth every extra penny spent.

 

[Bez?]

I have net wrap on all my balers. I was skeptical about putting it on my first baler with the extra $2800.00 price tag but I tried it. I would never use twine again. Infact my last baler I purchased I ordered it without the twine arms on it. Side by side a twine bale and a net wrapped the net wrapped bale will stay in condition for atleast 10 times longer. It is well worth every extra penny spent.

I find it keeps well but tends to be difficult to unwrap in the middle of winter.

You forgot one other important point - it is far faster wrapping than twine. Not important if you only do 50 bales - but big difference when you do thousands.

Bez?

 

[Herefordcross]

Net Wrap= Much faster!! Main advantage.
Yes it does take more time unwrapping in winter but, what we do is in the dead of winter when they're at their final destination we slice the wrap or we just set it out and they'll eat the hay out of the center of the bale and besides it's cheap calf housing until it warms up a little.

 

[GMN]

Net Wrap= Much faster!! Main besides it's cheap calf housing until it warms up a little.

Cheap calf housing meaning they lay on it, or something else?

GMN

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

We've used both twine & net wrap from our suppliers. Now, only want net wrap: Seems to stay together better, sheds water (what's that?) better. Only takes about 5 min or less to remove net once the hay ring has been placed over bale.

 

[Herefordcross]

Herefordcross wrote:
Net Wrap= Much faster!! Main besides it's cheap calf housing until it warms up a little.


Cheap calf housing meaning they lay on it, or something else?

GMN


No it stays frozen in the circular bale shape and they'll lay inside of it, the net wrap that is.

 

[Herefordcross]

No it stays frozen in the circular bale shape and they'll lay inside of it, the net wrap that is.

 

[stocky]

Net wrap is the only way to go. There is no comparison for all the reasons named above. With frozen bales you sometimes Have to use an axe to get the net off to unroll the bales. Also, like Hereford cross said, if they are frozen, you can put several of them out and they will eat the hay and leave the frozen outside and the make great huts until they thaw out.

 

[Angus Guy]

I've used both and have only found one good use for net wrap. After taking it off the bale and cleaning up the hay that fell off the bottom of bale roll up wrap and stuff in ground hog holes. The ground hogs will get tangled up in it and die. Thus no more burrows under barns or bins.

 

[cowtrek]

What is the cost per bale of netwrap compared to twine, on the average of you guys using net?? How much does a roll of netwrap run? Back to the original post, he mentioned Deere netwrap. Did they compare "CoverEdge" net to regular net and how does that look? Thanks! OL JR

 

[El_Putzo]

We use twine and my in-laws use netwrap. I help feed at both places. I wouldn't own a baler with netwrap on it. The hay does keep well with it, but as Dun said UM did a study a few years back and the diffence in the amount of hay loss from netwrap to 4 inch spacing on twine bales was 3% or less if I'm not mistaken. We keep the better part of our hay in barns also, so it wouldn't be worth it to us. We also unroll our bales when we feed, and it is faster to just cut the twine and let 'er roll than to unroll the netwrap off the bale. Then you have to do something with the netwrap, whereas the twine just rots. As I said, the in-laws use netwrap and are not real meticulous about keeping it picked up. Let me tell you, that stuff is hard on wheelbearings. They have replaced more than one in the last few years as a result of netwrap.

To summarize: the hassle of getting rid of the netwrap, the cost of the initial setup on the baler, and the cost of the netwrap itself, far outweighs any benefits it provides, in our opinions anyway.

 

[somn]

We use twine and my in-laws use netwrap. I help feed at both places. I wouldn't own a baler with netwrap on it. The hay does keep well with it, but as Dun said UM did a study a few years back and the diffence in the amount of hay loss from netwrap to 4 inch spacing on twine bales was 3% or less if I'm not mistaken. We keep the better part of our hay in barns also, so it wouldn't be worth it to us. We also unroll our bales when we feed, and it is faster to just cut the twine and let 'er roll than to unroll the netwrap off the bale. Then you have to do something with the netwrap, whereas the twine just rots. As I said, the in-laws use netwrap and are not real meticulous about keeping it picked up. Let me tell you, that stuff is hard on wheelbearings. They have replaced more than one in the last few years as a result of netwrap.

To summarize: the hassle of getting rid of the netwrap, the cost of the initial setup on the baler, and the cost of the netwrap itself, far outweighs any benefits it provides, in our opinions anyway.

I figured there would be less of a difference then 3%. I guessed it would be around 2% looks like I save even more money than I thought. 4245 bales last year at 1060# = 4,499,700#. You stated 3% loss so 4,499,700# x 3% = 134,991# of loss. multiply that 134,991# loss by 60 dollars at ton which this year is a conservative price. I saved $4049.73 with netwrap. That more than pays for the initial $2800.00 price tag for the netwrap attachment. I keep balers for three years. Money in my pocket.
You stated you put your hay in the barn. Knowing that you are right there is nothing for you to gain by using net wrap. But by suggesting to someone else that stores hay in the elements that there is no advantage to net wrap may not be the most sound advice. It would be like you telling someone from northern Canada that in your opinion they don't need to run #1 diesel in their tractors in the winter because you don't run #1 diesel in your tractors in the winter in Central MO.

As far as unwrapping the netwrap you stated you would just rather cut the twine instead of unwrapping the netwrap. If you have the knife in your pocket to cut the twine why not cut the netwrap hold the netwrap in your hand and walk around the bale one time takes 15 seconds. Getting rid of the net wrap has never been much of a problem for us we call them matches you strike them on a box you light the netwrap and watch the plastic burn.

But You made an excellent point when you stated the twine just rots away. After being exposed to the elements for six months lying on the ground the twine has rotted off from around the bottom of the bale. And let me say hauling twine wrapped hay any distance is a nightmare it is really bad when the twine has started to rot. At 70 mph the hay just flies in the air. In order to keep the hay from flying apart you need to put three dollars worth of twine per bale on the bale. At that point you could have netwrapped them for less. No opinions here just facts.

 

[stocky]

If you haul the hay immediately after baling and store it in the barn and dont have to haul it far to the pasture, you can get by with the twine. In any other case, if you use twine, you need to make sure and use plastic twine. It wont take the place of net wrap, and it wont rot in the fields, but you can store it outside and you can haul it, even though there will be considerable more waste of hay than with net. I am very skeptical of the 3 percent figure. I think it is considerably more and multiplies fast if you keep the hay more than one year outside. The twine wrapped bale will be useless in 3 years, while the net wrapped bale will still be 80 percent good if wrapped by a good baler. I buy several hundred bales each March at a cheap price because the owner doesnt want to hold them over. If it is a good net wrapped bale, it will keep just fine, If it is twine wrapped, it will waste considerably

 

[El_Putzo]

I figured there would be less of a difference then 3%. I guessed it would be around 2% looks like I save even more money than I thought. 4245 bales last year at 1060# = 4,499,700#. You stated 3% loss so 4,499,700# x 3% = 134,991# of loss. multiply that 134,991# loss by 60 dollars at ton which this year is a conservative price. I saved $4049.73 with netwrap. That more than pays for the initial $2800.00 price tag for the netwrap attachment. I keep balers for three years. Money in my pocket


You stated you put your hay in the barn. Knowing that you are right there is nothing for you to gain by using net wrap. But by suggesting to someone else that stores hay in the elements that there is no advantage to net wrap may not be the most sound advice. It would be like you telling someone from northern Canada that in your opinion they don't need to run #1 diesel in their tractors in the winter because you don't run #1 diesel in your tractors in the winter in Central MO.

As far as unwrapping the netwrap you stated you would just rather cut the twine instead of unwrapping the netwrap. If you have the knife in your pocket to cut the twine why not cut the netwrap hold the netwrap in your hand and walk around the bale one time takes 15 seconds. Getting rid of the net wrap has never been much of a problem for us we call them matches you strike them on a box you light the netwrap and watch the plastic burn.

But You made an excellent point when you stated the twine just rots away. After being exposed to the elements for six months lying on the ground the twine has rotted off from around the bottom of the bale. And let me say hauling twine wrapped hay any distance is a nightmare it is really bad when the twine has started to rot. At 70 mph the hay just flies in the air. In order to keep the hay from flying apart you need to put three dollars worth of twine per bale on the bale. At that point you could have netwrapped them for less. No opinions here just facts.

That's great Somn, I'm glad you know how to run a calculator, but you obviously have trouble reading. I said, that in our OPINION it is not worth it. Don't make any assumptions that you know about our setup or the person who is asking the question's setup. Let me explain a little further so that you can keep trying to convince me why I wouldn't own a baler with netwrap.

1. We usually do 400-500 rounds per year, not 4000. I'm not going to do the math for you since you obviously know how. You also didn't take into account that, along with the original $2800 for the netwrap option, it costs you twice as much per bale to wrap your bale 3 times with netwrap as it does for me to wrap my bail with 4 inch spacing of twine.

2. I stated that we put the "better part of our hay in the barn". I did not say all. until 4 yrs ago, all of our hay was stored outside in the elements. My inlaws keep their netwrapped bales just outside my back yard. I think these FACTS qualify me to know a little bit about hay spoilage. Just an FYI also, I own a diesel truck and we use diesel tractors on the farm, I would never tell you not to use #1 diesel in your environment especially when we use blended fuel here, because I do know a little tiny bit about diesels as well.

3. You are correct on the cutting of twine and netwrap, it is about the same. Problem is, between the 15 seconds it takes you to unwrap each bale, and the time you spent collecting your "netwrap balls" and striking matches, you've pretty much negated the time you saved when you were in the field wrapping that bale with netwrap. Guess that makes the time thing a wash, huh.

4. We keep the hay that we do store outside, on old used pallets (free) This keeps the strings from rotting. Also, the bales that we store outside are in a small fenced in area in the pasture where they are fed, so who gives a rats behind if a little hay falls off on the way, the cows will come back and pick it up later if they want it.

These things are unique to our setup and I'm sure the original poster's setup is different, but this info may still be helpful in figuring out if there really is a need for netwrap. No opinions here, just FACTS. ;-)

Have a nice Holiday.

 

[somn]

El_Putzo
I apologize you are absolutly right I know nothing about your setup after you have described your setup it sounds as if you could use an old Hesston Stacker model 10. Then there would be no twine strings at all. You mentioned time spent gathering up netwrap balls negates the time saved netwrapping in the field you have obviously never ran a baler with netwrap 9 seconds to netwrap and eject the bale compared to 45 seconds to properly tie a twine bale good enough to haul it any distance. Any bales that are not fed in a round bale feeder are ran thru a tub grinder with the net wrap still on not much time lost there. The wrap costs me $1.04 per bale per year. Thats alot less than the amount of capital it would take to build a shed and insure a shed to hold 4200 bales for six months a year. Then the wind comes up and rips the roof off so you pay a higher premium after getting that fixed. Sure you could depreciate the shed or you can write off the wrap as an expense. Same thing. I guess everyone runs a business differently. Some people on this board are cattle feeders some are cow calf grazers put on whatever shoe fits. But the one thing I know for sure neither one will survive long without the other.

Before questioning my ability to read you may want to see the original post when tom4018 asked quote" Does it keep much better than hay that is just twined wrapped when stored outside?" Maybe it is you that has trouble reading. You questioning my reading ability considering your ability to read is kinda like the pot calling the kettle black. Opinions are one thing insults are another thanks for the insult.

 

[Herefordcross]

we use two wraps and it's wrapped before I can get the back door open all the way! As far as spoilage, no comparison

 

[certherfbeef]

we just set it out and they'll eat the hay out of the center of the bale

Neighbor tried that one year. Culled a bunch of broken mouthed cows 2 years later too. They pulled their teeth out trying to get the hay out of the center of the bale.

 

[El_Putzo]

El_Putzo
I apologize you are absolutly right I know nothing about your setup after you have described your setup it sounds as if you could use an old Hesston Stacker model 10. Then there would be no twine strings at all. You mentioned time spent gathering up netwrap balls negates the time saved netwrapping in the field you have obviously never ran a baler with netwrap 9 seconds to netwrap and eject the bale compared to 45 seconds to properly tie a twine bale good enough to haul it any distance. Any bales that are not fed in a round bale feeder are ran thru a tub grinder with the net wrap still on not much time lost there. The wrap costs me $1.04 per bale per year. Thats alot less than the amount of capital it would take to build a shed and insure a shed to hold 4200 bales for six months a year. Then the wind comes up and rips the roof off so you pay a higher premium after getting that fixed. Sure you could depreciate the shed or you can write off the wrap as an expense. Same thing. I guess everyone runs a business differently. Some people on this board are cattle feeders some are cow calf grazers put on whatever shoe fits. But the one thing I know for sure neither one will survive long without the other.

Before questioning my ability to read you may want to see the original post when tom4018 asked quote" Does it keep much better than hay that is just twined wrapped when stored outside?" Maybe it is you that has trouble reading. You questioning my reading ability considering your ability to read is kinda like the pot calling the kettle black. Opinions are one thing insults are another thanks for the insult.

Somn:

I appreciate your apology, albeit a sarcastic one. You are right, pretty much any baler that puts a decent amount of hay in a bale that will stay together, will work for the bales we put in the barn. The bales stored outside however, (usually not more than 100 or so) are a different story. Your assumption is wrong again on me not running a net wrap baler before also. I have run and ridden with the in-laws as they baled. I can't say this for all models, but their NH 688 will not put 2.5 wraps on a bale in 9 seconds. As I said, they may be doing it all wrong putting that many wraps on a bale, but if I'm not mistaken, that is what NH recommends. It also does not take me 45 seconds to wrap a bale with twine using our NH BR740. I haven't timed it lately, but I'd guess it's less than 30 seconds. Not nearly as good as your 9 seconds, but the difference is negligible on the 400 or so bales we do each year.

So now instead of spending the 15 seconds you said in your original post to take the netwrap off, you just put it in the tub grinder with the netwrap still on the bale. Good for you, I'd prefer not to feed my cows plastic if I can help it. The way I see it, it's a simple matter of logistics. Did you happen to ask the original poster if he is putting up 4000+ round bales per year? I didn't either, but I would venture to guess he's putting up closer to the amount that we do, than you. I am also sorry to hear of the wind ripping the roof off your barns, I guess we have been lucky so far.

As far as tom's question of whether the netwrapped hay kept any better, I more than adequately answered that question. If you recall, my answer to that question (which was the 2-3% difference in spoilage) was the basis for you're whole post trying to run me down. As for me insulting you, I'm pretty sure anyone who cares to know, can go back and reread who started belittling who first. Have a fine day, I am done with this thread.