chrisy
Well-known member
who pasted away today God rest his soul
Nelson Mandela
- Thread starter chrisy
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skyhightree1
Well-known member
Yes, R.I.P. He was cherised by many and made positive impacts on so many peoples lives .
A
Anonymous
He wasn't the innocent angel a lot think him to be
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~springbk/enemy.html
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~springbk/enemy.html
Ouachita
Well-known member
Worked on a couple of his aircraft here in little ole small town USA
inyati13
Well-known member
Those who know inyati, who talks to dogs and cattle, know I have a passion for knowledge. You know I have a fascination with snakes. But when it comes to reading pleasure, I read about the the countries of Southern African. I have three books on Nelson Mandela. I have read numerous books related to the history of the African people.
It is well documented that Nelson Mandela was party to numerous movements and clandestine organizations in his efforts to achieve reform. In this country, we were called patriots for over throwing suppression. Let it be so with Nelson Mandela. He was a Patriot.
Nelson Mandela is the only black leader in Africa by comparison to his peers who did not rape, eat and destroy his people. You put half of us in his shoes and we would have made him look like a ballerina in leotards. If my government ever tries to treat me like it did the people of South Africa, Well I will use the words of William Munny in Unforgiven, "I'll come back and kill your wife and kids, I'll shoot your friends, I'll burn your dam house down."
It is well documented that Nelson Mandela was party to numerous movements and clandestine organizations in his efforts to achieve reform. In this country, we were called patriots for over throwing suppression. Let it be so with Nelson Mandela. He was a Patriot.
Nelson Mandela is the only black leader in Africa by comparison to his peers who did not rape, eat and destroy his people. You put half of us in his shoes and we would have made him look like a ballerina in leotards. If my government ever tries to treat me like it did the people of South Africa, Well I will use the words of William Munny in Unforgiven, "I'll come back and kill your wife and kids, I'll shoot your friends, I'll burn your dam house down."
chrisy
Well-known member
Why is it when a good person dies someone has to try to put them down, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire to get to the right end means, and that is what Mandela did, he freed South Africa from the likes of Idi Amin, and made it safe for Blacks and Whites alike. A good man IMO.
ps well said Inyati.
ps well said Inyati.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Knowledge does not all equate to "facts".inyati13":1eeuf533 said:
greybeard
Well-known member
There is a single inscription on Sam Houston's grave monument in Huntsville Tx, prophetic words spoken by Andrew Jackson.
The World Will Take Care of Houston's Fame
I suspect the same will be true of Nelson Mandela.
The World Will Take Care of Houston's Fame
I suspect the same will be true of Nelson Mandela.
inyati13
Well-known member
chrisy":2rdowion said:
Before somewhat points it out in a rude manner, Idi Amin Dada was the third President of Uganda, from 1971 to 1979. He never had any direct political ambitions in South Africa other than he did support the reform movement there.
I agree that people have a tendency to either make a hero or a villian of people who pass away. Shakespeare said it this way,"I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones; So let it be with Caesar."
IMHO, everyone is pretty equal. Heros are not always heros when you look deep and villians always have a soft place somewhere in their heart.
A
Anonymous
No one was insulting him, just pointing out that he wasn't the saint people think he was. He had an attitude of the ends justify the means and innocent people died upon his approval. Akin to the IRA. I don't support what they have done either, even if I think they were correct in what their end goal was. South Africa started destabilizing since he took power and ran a lot of the white farmers off their land and farms. The infrastructure wasn't in place to have the uneducated blacks take the positions of power that they took over. Now the region is destabilizing almost as fast as the Middle East.
Facts don't equate to insults.
Facts don't equate to insults.
chrisy
Well-known member
IRA did not want peace in Ireland they were terrorists, all they were content with was blowing things and people up and knee capping,etc. not a single thing can I think of did they do good. best thing I ever read was a slogan saying 'IRA = Idiotic Religious Assassins'hooknline":23wq607l said:
I lived through and barely missed a few of their bombings here in London, and an Army to me will stand face to face with its enemy while fighting not do things in the dark, I'll get off of my soap box now as thank God these times have pasted, and Hook if you feel I have insulted you I am truly sorry as that was not my intention.
HOSS
Well-known member
I'm not a respecter or hater of Mandel. I did find this open letter interesting and almost prophetic. This was written in 2004 on the 10th anniversary of the ending of apartheid. Since 1994 the violent crime rate is SA has increased to 10x what it is in the US. Unemployment is 40% and the farming production has about collapsed. I do not support apartheid policies but this is the result of making changes from what order had been in place for decades to rule by people that had absolutely no education or experience only tribal allegiances. There are more blacks in prison now in SA than there were under white rule. The change should have been more gradual to allow for the system and the economy to make natural adjustments. Just my opinion of course.
An Apology to Blacks from a white South African
We apologize for giving you doctors and free medical care, as a result of which you have been able to survive plagues and catastrophes and grow in numbers;
We apologize for teaching you to read and write, and for building you thousands of schools which we have repaired after you vandalized them and burned them down, After all, if you could not read how could you have learned the words of Karl Marx, Mao Tse-tung, and others who taught you how evil we are and how oppressed you are?
We apologize for building factories and highways and buildings that gave you employment;
We apologize for developing farms that to this day feed the bulk of Africa;
We apologize for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric instead of leaving you wearing the animal skins that you wore before our arrival;
We apologize for taking minerals from the earth, which you neither used, nor wanted, nor even knew, were there;
We apologize for those among us who have established welfare organizations and have devoted their entire life towards making life richer and better for your people;
We apologize that we have built roads and railroad tracks between towns and cities which you now use every day without thinking;
We apologize for paying the lion's share of taxation while spending less on ourselves than on you;
We apologize for giving you law and order and a strong central government that prevented your own warrior nations like the Zulu and the Matabele from slaughtering black people by the hundreds of thousands as they did year in and year out before we came;
We apologize for teaching you the English language which has opened to you the entire world of European thought, culture, and commerce;
For all these sins we humbly beg forgiveness, and if you will only accept our apology we will be happy to take back all of the above evil and horrible things we have done to you and return to our European homeland.
A Warning for Americans: A Message from a South African
People used to say that South Africa was 20 years behind the rest of the Western world. Television, for example, came late to South Africa (but so did pornography and the gay rights movement).
Today, however, South Africa may be the grim model of the future Western world, for events in America reveals trends chillingly similar to those that destroyed our country.
America's structures are of "Western Culture". Your Congress, your lobbying groups, your free speech, and the way ordinary Americans either get involved or ignore politics are peculiarly your "Western Culture", not the way most of the world operates. But the fact that only about a third of Americans deem it important to vote is horrifying in light of how close you are to losing your Western character.
Writing letters to the press, manning stands at county fairs, hosting fund-raising dinners, attending rallies, setting up conferences, writing your Congressman -- that is what you know, and what you are comfortable with. Those are the political methods you've created for yourselves to keep your country on track and to ensure political accountability,with freedom and justice for all.
But woe to you if -- or more likely, when -- the rules change. Americans may soon find themselves unable or unwilling to stand up to challenge the new political methods that will be the inevitable result of the ethnic metamorphosis now taking place in America. Unable to cope with the new rules of the game -- violence, mob riots, intimidation through accusations of racism, demands for proportionality based on racial numbers, and all the other social and political weapons used by the have-nots to bludgeon treasure and power from the haves -- Americans, like others before them, will no doubt cave in. They will compromise away their independence and ultimately their way of life.
That is exactly what happened in South Africa. I know, because I was there and I saw it happen.
An Apology to Blacks from a white South African
We apologize for giving you doctors and free medical care, as a result of which you have been able to survive plagues and catastrophes and grow in numbers;
We apologize for teaching you to read and write, and for building you thousands of schools which we have repaired after you vandalized them and burned them down, After all, if you could not read how could you have learned the words of Karl Marx, Mao Tse-tung, and others who taught you how evil we are and how oppressed you are?
We apologize for building factories and highways and buildings that gave you employment;
We apologize for developing farms that to this day feed the bulk of Africa;
We apologize for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric instead of leaving you wearing the animal skins that you wore before our arrival;
We apologize for taking minerals from the earth, which you neither used, nor wanted, nor even knew, were there;
We apologize for those among us who have established welfare organizations and have devoted their entire life towards making life richer and better for your people;
We apologize that we have built roads and railroad tracks between towns and cities which you now use every day without thinking;
We apologize for paying the lion's share of taxation while spending less on ourselves than on you;
We apologize for giving you law and order and a strong central government that prevented your own warrior nations like the Zulu and the Matabele from slaughtering black people by the hundreds of thousands as they did year in and year out before we came;
We apologize for teaching you the English language which has opened to you the entire world of European thought, culture, and commerce;
For all these sins we humbly beg forgiveness, and if you will only accept our apology we will be happy to take back all of the above evil and horrible things we have done to you and return to our European homeland.
A Warning for Americans: A Message from a South African
People used to say that South Africa was 20 years behind the rest of the Western world. Television, for example, came late to South Africa (but so did pornography and the gay rights movement).
Today, however, South Africa may be the grim model of the future Western world, for events in America reveals trends chillingly similar to those that destroyed our country.
America's structures are of "Western Culture". Your Congress, your lobbying groups, your free speech, and the way ordinary Americans either get involved or ignore politics are peculiarly your "Western Culture", not the way most of the world operates. But the fact that only about a third of Americans deem it important to vote is horrifying in light of how close you are to losing your Western character.
Writing letters to the press, manning stands at county fairs, hosting fund-raising dinners, attending rallies, setting up conferences, writing your Congressman -- that is what you know, and what you are comfortable with. Those are the political methods you've created for yourselves to keep your country on track and to ensure political accountability,with freedom and justice for all.
But woe to you if -- or more likely, when -- the rules change. Americans may soon find themselves unable or unwilling to stand up to challenge the new political methods that will be the inevitable result of the ethnic metamorphosis now taking place in America. Unable to cope with the new rules of the game -- violence, mob riots, intimidation through accusations of racism, demands for proportionality based on racial numbers, and all the other social and political weapons used by the have-nots to bludgeon treasure and power from the haves -- Americans, like others before them, will no doubt cave in. They will compromise away their independence and ultimately their way of life.
That is exactly what happened in South Africa. I know, because I was there and I saw it happen.
A
Anonymous
Chrisy I didn't take it that way in the least. It's interesting the different perspectives people have
Ouachita
Well-known member
Yes Sir it is. I am not a world traveler. I have traveled all over these united States, but have spent most my time right here where I live. I have a job that for 28 years has offered me opportunity to meet some people. I will only clasify them as interesting people. No, I have never met Nelson Mandela, but I have worked on some of his planes. Forget the name of the topic for a minute; I have met other interesting people, and something that I have learned is that no matter how much news you hear, and research you do, you still end up with half truths at best. I have known some really fine people that have less than tarnished reputation if you plug their name in to a search engine. I've also met the other kind. It's a difficult subject to discuss without having been there. Most times best to keep ears open and mouth shuthooknline":2qoxccgs said:
inyati13
Well-known member
Nelson Mandela would not be the first and he will not be the last to kill innocent people in the course of human conflict.
And don't make the mistake that I am judging the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan. As horrific as it was, innocent people die in the conduct of violent actions resulting from conflict.
A Little Boy atomic bomb was dropped on the city of Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, followed by a Fat Man bomb on the city of Nagasaki on August 9. Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki, with roughly half of the deaths in each city occurring on the first day. During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness. In both cities, most of the dead were civilians, although Hiroshima had a sizeable garrison.
And don't make the mistake that I am judging the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan. As horrific as it was, innocent people die in the conduct of violent actions resulting from conflict.
A Little Boy atomic bomb was dropped on the city of Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, followed by a Fat Man bomb on the city of Nagasaki on August 9. Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki, with roughly half of the deaths in each city occurring on the first day. During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness. In both cities, most of the dead were civilians, although Hiroshima had a sizeable garrison.
there is no doubt that Mandela was a terrorist prior to his incarceration. What separates Mandela from every other thug and wannabe dictator, not just in Africa but across the world, was what he did AFTER his release from prison. His example has been exemplary, his ability to communicate peace and love not hate and retribution kept a lid on what could have just melted into anarchy. As a rugby fan I will forever remember the image of him shaking hands with Francois Pienaar, the captain of the South African team, while wearing Pienaar's No. 6 jersey, in what prior to ending apartheid was the hotbed of Afrikaner pride and culture in Johannesburg. That reconciliation and embracement between the two men was a powerful force. One thing Mandela also did was divorce his wife Winnie, she really was a nasty piece of work, leading and inciting hate and the infamous necklace murders.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Sounds almost like Jesse Jackson. A rel chameleon.
inyati13
Well-known member
robert, Jessse Jackson is so far under Mandela, he couldn't shine Mandela's shoes. Like Mandela or not who cares, that is a man's privilege. And whether Mandela's achievements are judged as good or bad is dependent on the prejudices of he who judges. But at least, Mandela has achievements and accomplishments to judge, all Jesse Jackson ever did is run his mouth.robert":2n3f0vl9 said:
Ouachita
Well-known member
I think that is what hook was saying too...."interesting the different perspectives"...inyati13":1dvy7s8s said:
Be careful with shoe shine reference inyati, some one will think you are racist ;-)
