Need some advice on a bull (no pictures)

[Saltydawg]

Ok went to look at a bull the other day.

Bull is son of JJJ Victor....momma was unregistered Hereford.

He is about 20 months old and is a pretty decent looking bull cept for one thing.....he has scurs. They are small....only about 2 inches long and stubby.

None of my cows(straightbred Herefords) have scurs nor have any of them thrown a calf who developed scurs.

What would I be dealing with breeding this bull to my cows?

Personally the scurs don't bother me cause from what I know they don't actually hurt the animals in any way.
My animals are commercial though so I don't wanna get hurt at the salebarn.

I have done a search on scurs on the boards and some good information about how they are passed on.

What I really wanna know is....would you do it and your reasons either for or against.

 

[Bez!]

Ok went to look at a bull the other day.

Bull is son of JJJ Victor....momma was unregistered Hereford.

He is about 20 months old and is a pretty decent looking bull cept for one thing.....he has scurs. They are small....only about 2 inches long and stubby.

None of my cows(straightbred Herefords) have scurs nor have any of them thrown a calf who developed scurs.

What would I be dealing with breeding this bull to my cows?

Personally the scurs don't bother me cause from what I know they don't actually hurt the animals in any way.
My animals are commercial though so I don't wanna get hurt at the salebarn.

I have done a search on scurs on the boards and some good information about how they are passed on.

What I really wanna know is....would you do it and your reasons either for or against.

What is his background?

How do you know what size calves he will throw?

Birthweight?

Weaning weight?

And so on ....

You sure they are scurs and not remnants from a poor cutting job? Horned Herf in the background?

I have a nice HH bull here that I did a poor job on and he has about 3 inches of horn - very misshapened on one side.

Bez!

 

[Saltydawg]

Yea I'm positive they are scurs....can grab hold of them and they are clearly not attached to to bone.

88lb BW....do not know his weaning weight and the only weight I have of him is with a tape....he measures at 1650lb's.
This would make him about 600lb's smaller than JJJ Victor but he's still got some growing to do.
He hasn't been used for breeding yet but has a big old sack hanging down there.

The guy who owns him only has 3 Hereford cows. He ai'd them with jjj Victor semen and thats how he got the bull.

The momma is about a 1200lb cow and is a decent looking animal....not a show winner but decent.

The guy owes me some money.....that I'll probably never get unless I accept something in trade lol.

He is a nice looking bull and have no reason to believe the owner is trying to hide anything....known the guy for years.

Just don't know about introducing a scur gene in my herd.

I kinda figured if he throws a lot of scurred calves I would just follow him with a horned bull and go with a horned herd since im not partial one way or the other to horned or polled.
They are polled now cause thats what I started with.

I dunno though lol. I do have other options for bulls but this guy looks really nice other than the scurs and it's probably the only way I'm gonna get my money back.

If it makes any difference he will only breed 3 heifers, the rest are all proven cows.

 

[mnmtranching]

Saltydawg. Sounds to me like you should go ahead and get this bull, get your money. You could sell him for kill and use the money to get a registered bull.

On the otherhand what we know about this bull I think he would work out for your herd. With polled cows I doupt if you will get any horns. If you do clip the calves when their young.

mnmt

 

[jnowack]

Scurred bulls carry a horn gene. Scurs are not a mutated polled gene. Scurs are a different gene pair.

Clip them when they are young? If you are referring to casteration that has no bearing on the calf's polled, horned or scurred status.

 

[Alan]

I feel like there are plenty of good scurred bulls out there used for breeding. I don't know if you would take a knock on scurred or not at the sale yard. But if your animals are all polled, my novice thoughts are you would end up with the vast majority of calves polled. If you have any polled cattle with a horned gene, you still would get (I believe) 75% polled.

I just don't know how the scurred cattle do at the sale yard, horned take a hit, but do scurred?

Alan

 

[Aero]

I feel like there are plenty of good scurred bulls out there used for breeding. I don't know if you would take a knock on scurred or not at the sale yard. But if your animals are all polled, my novice thoughts are you would end up with the vast majority of calves polled. If you have any polled cattle with a horned gene, you still would get (I believe) 75% polled.

I just don't know how the scurred cattle do at the sale yard, horned take a hit, but do scurred?

Alan

from what i remember about scurs, it is dominant in males and recessive in females... so wouldnt most of the steers be scurred?

http://www.gelbvieh.org/horns_factsheet.htm

 

[jnowack]

I feel like there are plenty of good scurred bulls out there used for breeding. I don't know if you would take a knock on scurred or not at the sale yard. But if your animals are all polled, my novice thoughts are you would end up with the vast majority of calves polled. If you have any polled cattle with a horned gene, you still would get (I believe) 75% polled.

I just don't know how the scurred cattle do at the sale yard, horned take a hit, but do scurred?

Alan

from what i remember about scurs, it is dominant in males and recessive in females... so wouldnt most of the steers be scurred?

http://www.gelbvieh.org/horns_factsheet.htm

It depends on the cows also. If the cows carry no horn genes and no scur genes and the bull carries only one scur gene and one horn gene then the male progeny would have a 25% probability of being scurred. If the bull carries 2 scurred genes then it would be 50%.

I would think that some of the cows carry these genes so you could likely get half or more of the male progeny scurred and a few of the females. You will probably get some horned ones also.

Alan

Scurs are not discriminated against at the sale barn nearly to the extent that horns are. Often in young light weight cattle and sometimes in older cattle the scurs are very small and are not noticed. I showed a heifer that did not show scurs until she was almost 2 years old. She then had what I call scab scurs. Very small and peel off like a scab if you pull on them.

I don

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

A scurred bull will not through you a scurred calf or a horned calf. You will be safe. :cboy:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ok went to look at a bull the other day.

Bull is son of JJJ Victor....momma was unregistered Hereford.

He is about 20 months old and is a pretty decent looking bull cept for one thing.....he has scurs. They are small....only about 2 inches long and stubby.

None of my cows(straightbred Herefords) have scurs nor have any of them thrown a calf who developed scurs.

What would I be dealing with breeding this bull to my cows?

Personally the scurs don't bother me cause from what I know they don't actually hurt the animals in any way.
My animals are commercial though so I don't wanna get hurt at the salebarn.

I have done a search on scurs on the boards and some good information about how they are passed on.

What I really wanna know is....would you do it and your reasons either for or against.

Whats the difference in price of a registered bull. Always a lot easier to sell a registered bull when your finished with him.
Also you have a set of EPD's if you buy from a reputable breeder.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Ok went to look at a bull the other day.

Bull is son of JJJ Victor....momma was unregistered Hereford.

He is about 20 months old and is a pretty decent looking bull cept for one thing.....he has scurs. They are small....only about 2 inches long and stubby.

None of my cows(straightbred Herefords) have scurs nor have any of them thrown a calf who developed scurs.

What would I be dealing with breeding this bull to my cows?

Personally the scurs don't bother me cause from what I know they don't actually hurt the animals in any way.
My animals are commercial though so I don't wanna get hurt at the salebarn.

I have done a search on scurs on the boards and some good information about how they are passed on.

What I really wanna know is....would you do it and your reasons either for or against.

Whats the difference in price of a registered bull. Always a lot easier to sell a registered bull when your finished with him.
Also you have a set of EPD's if you buy from a reputable breeder.

Caustic, where did you get your Hereford Bull from? :cboy:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Of the three in the pasture two from a small seedstock producer one from another large operation about 20 miles east of me that has been raising polled Herfs since 1928.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Of the three in the pasture two from a small seedstock producer one from another large operation about 20 miles east of me that has been raising polled Herfs since 1928.

Are they registered bulls and if so, what are there registration numbers? Take care. :cboy:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Of the three in the pasture two from a small seedstock producer one from another large operation about 20 miles east of me that has been raising polled Herfs since 1928.

Are they registered bulls and if so, what are there registration numbers? Take care. :cboy:

I don't run anything but registered bulls.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

I would like to look up your registered bulls on the Hereford Website. I would just like to see there backgrounds and EPDs. They are really nice bulls in work closes. Thanks! :cboy:

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would like to look up your registered bulls on the Hereford Website. I would just like to see there backgrounds and EPDs. They are really nice bulls in work closes. Thanks! :cboy:

Here is the sires number P41036321 the other Sire P23312912
and last but not least P21834167

 

[jnowack]

A scurred bull will not through you a scurred calf or a horned calf. You will be safe. :cboy:

Sorry got to call B.S. on that one. You need to get your facts straight.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

A scurred bull will not through you a scurred calf or a horned calf. You will be safe. :cboy:

Sorry got to call B.S. on that one. You need to get your facts straight.

Well, that is within my herd. We used a good scurred bull by 29F and bred a good many cows to himand none of the calves got scurs or horns. :cboy:

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

I would like to look up your registered bulls on the Hereford Website. I would just like to see there backgrounds and EPDs. They are really nice bulls in work closes. Thanks! :cboy:

Here is the sires number P41036321 the other Sire P23312912
and last but not least P21834167

Caustic, The one bull is KCF Victor 08N X4, Braxton Giant 1, and other one is STAR Lineman 147H. For one, X4 is dead and I know Giant 1 is did and the other one is owned by K BAR K Ranch. Are these bulls that you AI with? Can't be your herd bulls.
Or are your herd bulls sired by X4, Giant 1, 147H? :cboy:

 

[jnowack]

A scurred bull will not through you a scurred calf or a horned calf. You will be safe. :cboy:

Sorry got to call B.S. on that one. You need to get your facts straight.

Well, that is within my herd. We used a good scurred bull by 29F and bred a good many cows to himand none of the calves got scurs or horns. :cboy:

You were lucky. It's kind like flipping a coin and getting heads 20 times in a row.