Need a recommendation on a bull for my herd...

[Cuz-Pat]

Folks,
I am new here and just registered tonight. Been coming here and reading a little as a guest. You seem to be a knowledgable bunch of good folks. Therefore, I need a little help.

I am in need of a bull for my small herd of cattle. I want to purchase a registered yearling bull that is in the 13-17 month old range. I have 10 head of cows to put him on & that is all he will have to service. I plan to stay with a commercial herd about the size I presently have. A few of my cows are registered but I didn't buy them because of that. I bought them because I liked them and they fit the bill for what I was looking for. Let me tell you about my cows and the breed of bulls I am considering and then ya'll give me your recommendations, please.

I have in my herd the following cows: 1 commercial brangus cow (4 year old) with 2nd calf, 3 registered Sim-Angus heifers with first calves, 1 PB commercial Angus heifer with first calf, and 5 other commercial Angus type cows (3-4 years old) with calves. All of my cattle are black.

I am looking at Registered Black Angus bulls, Registered Sim-Angus bulls and Registered Simmental bulls, all black and all polled.

Having read a little (but knowing even less) about heterosis (hybrid vigor) , EPD'S, and considering the make-up of my herd, which of these bulls will best fit my herd of cows and what kind of EPD numbers do I need to look for in a particular bull? Do I need to stay purebred with my bull or would a half blood work for me? I want to make a sound investment and spend my money wisely on a bull purchase, that's why I would greatly appreciate any of your input.

Thanks in advance for any or all the help you folks can give me.

Cuz-Pat

 

[LegacyBreeder]

Hmm. Given the info provided, I'd say to go with the SimAngus bull. I'd also say that a Balancer (AngusXGelbvieh) would do nicely too. Just for consideration, a Hereford bull would throw some beautifully uniform bally calves for you. Good luck in your decision!

 

[cypressfarms]

Hmm. Given the info provided, I'd say to go with the SimAngus bull. I'd also say that a Balancer (AngusXGelbvieh) would do nicely too. Just for consideration, a Hereford bull would throw some beautifully uniform bally calves for you. Good luck in your decision!

Good answer Legacy! All great choices. I would also throw Brangus into the mix. Dont know where in 'Bama Cuz is (weather speaking about the summer heat), but a small amount of brahman with the brangus might do him some good.You would basically have 1/2 of 3/8's brahman in youf offspring. Not too much to give you a big ear, but enough to help withstand heat and insects

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

This is a question that always gets very controversial answers. We all love our own breed and have biases.
You're three choices are good ones. Since you have a commercial herd - all 3 would work. You would get the least amount of crossbreeding benefits from the straight Angus bull, and the most out of the purebred Simmental bull. The SimAngus would work for you (and in my opinion one of the best crosses you can have - but I'm a Simmental breeder & have loved the cross since 1978 when we got started).
You don't have any virgin heifers, so you can use a Simm bull with CE of +4 or higher, and WW at least +35, YW at least +55.
You want a bull that has under a 100# BW, over a 650# ww, and at least a 1150# yearling.
These are broard figures, but can give you an idea on the Simmental breedings.
Can't help you with the Angus EPD's.
One advantage of the purebred Simm bull, is that if you ever wanted to - the offspring of ALL your cows CAN be registered as 1/2 bloods. Which could give you a market for SimAngus like what you are looking to possibly buy.
The cost of a PB polled black bull will vary depending on whether the owner is sure they are homozygous polled and/or homozygous black.
Which is one thing you do not have to "guess" at with the PB Angus bull. They are all Homo Blk & Homo Polled.
Hope this helps without being too prejudice.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Pat, your commercial herd sounds similar to mine. Do you plan on increasing the herd size at all? If so, I'd consider two routes:

1) PB Angus bull. Then the critter you get out of your one registered animal could be papered as well. Might be the start of a purebred operation.

2) If you want to stay commercial, I'd think about a lower birthweight Simm bull to cross on your Angus. Get yourself some Angus/Simm heifers, then cross these up to a Shorthorn after you're built up a few animals.

If you're not going to increase herd size, and you have the necessary grain to put the weight on them, run a terminal PB Simm bull. If you don't have much in the way of grain for them, stick to a high gaining Hereford or Shorthorn bull.

Rod

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

After reading DiamondS comments I relooked at your post and see you do not have ANY registered Angus, but your SimAng are registered. Bred to a PB Simm bull, your offspring on your SimAng would be registered 3/4 Simm.
I don't care what breed you pick, if you pick the frame size to fit what you plan on doing with your herd, feeding will be equal.

 

[badroute]

I would say with the imformation you provided that any three of them bulls would work fine for you. It is good you have a tentative plan in place. My advice would be not to worry about the breed as much as the bull. Too often first-time cattleman are brainwashed into a certain breed and rush right in and buy the first bull they can buy. It doesn't matter whether you go Angus, Sim-Angus or straight Simmy just make sure you buy a good quality bull, at your present time that will dictate just as much if not more the quality of your future offspring than breed selection. Good Luck

 

[Cuz-Pat]

I do hope you kind folks will forgive my ignorance concerning some of these cattle "terms". What does "terminal" mean? What about "composite"? One reply mentioned a "PB terminal Simmental bull", lost me on the "terminal". :mrgreen:

I do appreciate the good replies so far.

Thanks,
Cuz-Pat
DBA Patton Farm

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

see you do not have ANY registered Angus, but your SimAng are registered.

Good catch, Jeanne. Skip what I said about the PB Angus bull. Stick with the cross to keep your vigor up.

Rod

 

[dun]

I do hope you kind folks will forgive my ignorance concerning some of these cattle "terms". What does "terminal" mean? What about "composite"? One reply mentioned a "PB terminal Simmental bull", lost me on the "terminal". :mrgreen:

I do appreciate the good replies so far.

Thanks,
Cuz-Pat
DBA Patton Farm

A terminal bull is one that is being used strictly as a meat maker and no daughters will be retained

dun

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

One reply mentioned a "PB terminal Simmental bull", lost me on the "terminal".

A terminal cross bull refers to a bull that is selected specifically to provide high gaining calves. These calves likely do not have the necessary traits to make them good breed stock, either because of conformation, high birth weights, poor fertility, etc etc etc. Your animals are a little younger, so you won't want a monster with big square shoulders and a 120 lb birth weight, but you could get a little beefier in the front end.

Rod

 

[Frankie]

Buy yourself a good, registered, Angus bull. Will you sell the calves if weaning? If so, look for something with a high weaning weight (breed average is about 37). If you're going to retain ownership, also look at YW (breed average is about 69). Keep heifers? Be sure the bull's milk EPD isn't too high for your management and environment.

But before you buy a bull, look around and see if there's some sort of alliance in your area. Talk to your extension people, local cattlemen's group, regional Angus manager, etc., and see if there's a marketing group that will pay a premium for Angus sired calves. Look into the AngusSource program.

In my area, commercial Angus heifers sell at a premium to other commercial heifers. You might be able to sell your heifers as replacements, rather than feeders, if you were interested in doing that. Good luck....

 

[bigbull338]

everyone here is giving you great answers.an they are right on target.the angus woukld be good on those cows.as well as the simm bull.but im thinking since you want black calves.throw an black beefmaster on those cows.an watch the calves hitt the ground growing.would be a good mix for your herd.scott

 

[J. T.]

If I owned your herd, I would buy a Hereford bull. Herefords do well in Alabama and your cowherd contains no Hereford breeding so you could maximize heterosis and produce black baldies which are always popular.

 

[rkaiser]

Terminal is usually a term meant for all offspring to be hung on the hook. However, it sounds to me that you don't have any interest in that part of the chain. If you are simply looking to raise a big calf and sell it through the auction, move toward your exotic cross, but make sure he shows thickness up through the forerib: cattle buyers will reward you for thickness.

 

[Beefy]

angus or brangus.

 

[la4angus]

Angus, red or black or brangus.

 

[Jovid]

Red Poll

 

[lilbitfarm]

think about a limousin red or black or a lim-flex bull they always done us right or maybe a gelbvieh they will give you some nice calves :cboy:

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

I would suggest you go with a Murray Grey Bull for low birthweight calves that will grow off well,and are docile for easier handling. ;-) :cboy: