Natural Processes

[inyati13]

They were guided be nice Ron.

Edited to add " the authors of the Bible that is"

TT, that God guided the scribe's translations and transcriptions is faith-based. There are religious institutions that do not accept that Jesus was the Messiah including Jews. Judaism holds that he was the most damaging of the "false messiahs". If Jesus was a false-messiah, then God has not made a recorded embodied appearance on earth. Therefore, there is no evidence that he personally guided the transcriptions unless you have faith that he did it through Spirit. Which is why his influence on the Bible has to be taken as faith-based. I know many here know that but the reason I state it is that some preachers make it sound like God was in the room telling the scribes word for word what to write. This is why I balked in response to Deepsouth's request that I discuss how the Bible is the "the word of God" from an Atheist perspective.

All goes to demonstrate that the Great Religions of the World (there are five) cannot agree with each other on something as significant as whether Jesus was the father, the son and the holy spirit or just a man making the false claim that he is the Messiah.

Had to get a reference to remember the Five, taken from a book I have had many years:
Great Religions of the World, 1971, 1978.
Hinduism
Buddhism
Judaism
Islam
Christianity

 

[Sunfish]

Thank you for this thread
You guys have strengthened me
" As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another"

 

[Bestoutwest]

I have recently struggled with this personally. I am a nonbeliever, and I will explain why in a bit. I live in a very, very religious area with the vast majority of people being Christians. I have seen so many things that go against the teaching of the Bible, that I cannot believe after seeing all these people that say they are Children of God. For a rich man to hire a poor man, and then to turn around and say that he, the rich man is blessed, is (to me anyway) blasphemous. Why is he the chosen one? I know some extremely religious people who are poorer than dirt, what's so wrong with them? I know people who are flirtatious and sexual, which goes against the teachings of the Bible, and go to church all the time. Why are they going to heaven and I won't? I have seen the Bible used as justification to HATE people based on their sexual orientation. I have seen it used to hate people of different religions. I have worked with children who have pediatric bone cancer (ie stage IV) who are going to die. Why them? Why was I born with a hole in my heart? Why are there so many murders, rapes and violent crimes in America every year? Why have there been so many wars? Why was Hitler allowed to come to power?

Who can say that there wasn't some being that started this whole thing? I can't. I see a lot in this world that makes me wonder, but I see a lot that tells me that being isn't in control anymore. War, poverty, starvation, disease, etc. That's why I can't jump on the bandwagon. If you are a believer, I'm happy for you, and I am, we all need meaning in our life. I have meaning in my life, too. Be a good human being. Treat others like I want to be treated. Leave the earth, hopefully, as good or better than I found it. But because I am not a Christian, please don't pity me, hate me or try to convert me. I won't do the same for you.

To all my friends on here, no matter the denomination, may your days be peaceful and full of love.

 

[inyati13]

I have recently struggled with this personally. I am a nonbeliever, and I will explain why in a bit. I live in a very, very religious area with the vast majority of people being Christians. I have seen so many things that go against the teaching of the Bible, that I cannot believe after seeing all these people that say they are Children of God. For a rich man to hire a poor man, and then to turn around and say that he, the rich man is blessed, is (to me anyway) blasphemous. Why is he the chosen one? I know some extremely religious people who are poorer than dirt, what's so wrong with them? I know people who are flirtatious and sexual, which goes against the teachings of the Bible, and go to church all the time. Why are they going to heaven and I won't? I have seen the Bible used as justification to HATE people based on their sexual orientation. I have seen it used to hate people of different religions. I have worked with children who have pediatric bone cancer (ie stage IV) who are going to die. Why them? Why was I born with a hole in my heart? Why are there so many murders, rapes and violent crimes in America every year? Why have there been so many wars? Why was Hitler allowed to come to power?

Who can say that there wasn't some being that started this whole thing? I can't. I see a lot in this world that makes me wonder, but I see a lot that tells me that being isn't in control anymore. War, poverty, starvation, disease, etc. That's why I can't jump on the bandwagon. If you are a believer, I'm happy for you, and I am, we all need meaning in our life. I have meaning in my life, too. Be a good human being. Treat others like I want to be treated. Leave the earth, hopefully, as good or better than I found it. But because I am not a Christian, please don't pity me, hate me or try to convert me. I won't do the same for you.

To all my friends on here, no matter the denomination, may your days be peaceful and full of love.

Don't take the burdens of mankind on your shoulders. You have a heart of the purest GOLD. I identify with your revelation. I was raised in absolute poverty. My dad may have made $1200 or $1300 clear money per year. If my mother's brother had not subsidized us, we would have starved to death. I had many of the same experiences that you mention. The Christians in our Church were more apt to take advantage of a young farm boy than the old heathen farmers who lived a reclusive life, drank what ever they could get and never stuck their head in a Church.

As much as we all want order and fairness, it is illusive. You will not find it in any institution, in any religion, in any person; you will only find it in yourself. Look to yourself. Hold yourself up as the center of the Universe. If you cannot believe in yourself, then there is no point in anyone else believing in you. Why? Because everyone else is struggling with the same challenges you are. You have demonstrated that you are a man of compassion. You give me hope. You have inspired me.

Take care of yourself. If I can help you, please send me a private message.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I have recently struggled with this personally. I am a nonbeliever, and I will explain why in a bit. I live in a very, very religious area with the vast majority of people being Christians. I have seen so many things that go against the teaching of the Bible, that I cannot believe after seeing all these people that say they are Children of God. For a rich man to hire a poor man, and then to turn around and say that he, the rich man is blessed, is (to me anyway) blasphemous. Why is he the chosen one? I know some extremely religious people who are poorer than dirt, what's so wrong with them? I know people who are flirtatious and sexual, which goes against the teachings of the Bible, and go to church all the time. Why are they going to heaven and I won't? I have seen the Bible used as justification to HATE people based on their sexual orientation. I have seen it used to hate people of different religions. I have worked with children who have pediatric bone cancer (ie stage IV) who are going to die. Why them? Why was I born with a hole in my heart? Why are there so many murders, rapes and violent crimes in America every year? Why have there been so many wars? Why was Hitler allowed to come to power?

Who can say that there wasn't some being that started this whole thing? I can't. I see a lot in this world that makes me wonder, but I see a lot that tells me that being isn't in control anymore. War, poverty, starvation, disease, etc. That's why I can't jump on the bandwagon. If you are a believer, I'm happy for you, and I am, we all need meaning in our life. I have meaning in my life, too. Be a good human being. Treat others like I want to be treated. Leave the earth, hopefully, as good or better than I found it. But because I am not a Christian, please don't pity me, hate me or try to convert me. I won't do the same for you.

To all my friends on here, no matter the denomination, may your days be peaceful and full of love.

If you have a few minutes, take a listen to this.
http://www.okcfirst.com/media.php?pageID=6

Pick June 22, Kingdom come

He turns a lot of materialism on its head. I'm making my way from there forward and have had more than a couple moments where I've rethought some things.

Edit: Best, I missed part of your post. I didn't post that for conversion, but explanation how things can get so mixed up. I contemplate these things.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

They were guided be nice Ron.

Edited to add " the authors of the Bible that is"

I originally typed "They were guided by G~O~D Ron" and it was changed to what you see above.

Are you telling me that the use of that word is now akin to profanity on this forum?

Talk about offensive.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

They were guided be nice Ron.

Edited to add " the authors of the Bible that is"

I originally typed "They were guided by G~O~D Ron" and it was changed to what you see above.

Are you telling me that the use of that word is now akin to profanity on this forum?

Talk about offensive.

No, put the word by with God alone and an exclamation following it, and it is. Think about it for a second and I think you'll see. ;-)

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

They were guided be nice Ron.

Edited to add " the authors of the Bible that is"

I originally typed "They were guided by G~O~D Ron" and it was changed to what you see above.

Are you telling me that the use of that word is now akin to profanity on this forum?

Talk about offensive.

No, put the word by with God alone and an exclamation following it, and it is. Think about it for a second and I think you'll see. ;-)

That isn't what I wrote, implied, nor intended. There wasn't an excamation point in my sentence at all. :|

 

[Commercialfarmer]

No exclamation needed. I said that to make it more obvious of what the autofilter saw. Not a common phrase anymore.

Your use was obvious, but the protective mechanisms can't discriminate meaning.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Let's try it again.

They were guided by God Ron.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

LOL!

Got me immediately that time.

Stupid filters.

 

[TexasBred]

If it's perfection you're looking for in Christians you won't find it. Only sinners saved by God's grace.

 

[inyati13]

If it's perfection you're looking for in Christians you won't find it. Only sinners saved be nice's grace.

Good point TB. None of us have a lock on perfection. I find myself judging too harshly sometimes just because a person is a Christian and upon reflect that is not fair. Glad you steered us on course.

 

[inyati13]

Ron, you say that if you believed what Christianity teaches you would be the greatest witness in the world. If you were you would be labeled a judgmental intolerant bigot. But let's say you were a Christian and I was an atheist what would you do to convince me that there is a God and the Bible is His word.

Deepsouth, I could take that on a different spin but not as you teed that up. I have a cousin (my dad's brother's son) who is of the Franciscan Order of the Catholic faith. He and I have frequent conversations. Yes, he knows I am a non-believer. He is currently assigned at a convent in Cincinnati. He is 14 years older than I and is basically in retirement. The Church will care for him till death and then handle his remains in the tradition of the Franciscan Order. He spent his entire life serving the Church. He studied scripture in some of the institutions available throughout the Catholic Kingdom. It is remarkable to speak with him. He frequently visits my farm in the company of my cousin Jimmie who I am extremely close to (they are brothers). Unlike the defensive responses that are typical of discussions involving non-trained theologians like most of us (I must say least I be accused of having divine powers myself, that there may be participants here who have formal religious training), my Franciscan cousin is very guarded in statements that are proven by fact versus those that he attributes to faith. I am cautious to repeat what I have gleamed from our conversations but one point I remember is this: attributing statements in the Bible to God as his word is extremely tricky. There are statements that you may attribute to the man Jesus but saying it is the word of God is subject to faith.

My response:

Ron, I have to be honest with you. I have no ideal what your talking about here or what it has to do with my question. Also when have I ever mentioned Jesus to you either on this board or by PM?


Therefore, I don't feel I should attempt even as an exercise to convince anyone that the Bible is the word of God. I would have a struggle even defining someone else's perception of what God is. As I have done, my best fake shot at that is to use a Wizard as a proxy.

My response:

I can understand that. I was not trying to trap you with the question. I just wanted you to try to understand my side of the coin. Dealing with an atheist is a lot different than dealing with someone who believes in a God but has never trusted Him. I thought you could give me some insight into how to talk to an atheist because obviously I have no ideal how to do it.

I completely agree with CF that arguing over the age of the earth is pointless. Even Christians disagree on that but knowing the age of the earth is not a requirement to get into heaven. i can say without a doubt that God did not give us the full details of the creation but He told us what we needed to know. Our real issue is not on the physical but the spiritual. You have a spiritual need and you know it. No atheist tribe or people have ever been discovered. Communist have tried to force atheism on people but it does not work. Why? Because people know there is a God even if they don't know that God. According to Gallop only 2% of the world's population claims to be atheist, that puts you in a pretty small minority Ron. As I told you before I don't believe in Atheist. You cannot convince me that they exist. We are not spirits but we are spiritual. You keep referring to God as a long bearded wizard. That's your first problem while we are spiritual God is a Spirit. We connect to Him by the spirit. However when we don't when we dishonor Him through disobedience our spiritual connection is broken. ( That probably just got the thread locked) Anyway because of this broken spiritual connection we have a void in us and only God can fill that void. People try to fill the void in many ways but they know something is missing. There are no atheist.

Deepsouth: I am missing something here and it is probably before my eyes but I need your help. Reference the bold, underlined portion above. What do you mean by the statement "have I ever mentioned Jesus to you either on this board or by PM"? That may be but I don't understand why you are raising that statement. You and I have exchanged perhaps 3 or 4 PMs on the subject of religion. The last one I recall was on the subject of Righteousness. You and I are making a good team for confusion.

PS: Further reading and I think I see the fly in the ointment. You are reading the following sentence: " There are statements that you may attribute to the man Jesus but saying it is the word of God is subject to faith." That "you" does not mean "Deepsouth". In that sentence, I am talking about people in general not "you". I sould have used "one". Sorry, I think that is the issue!