My Vets Closing their Practice

[Buck Randall]

USDA programs to try to hand out scholarships or money for vets doing large animal work in underserved areas haven't been very effective. For one, there's no way to give rural veterinarians enough money to compensate for what they could make elsewhere. Even when veterinarians decide to take the job for the grant money or loan repayment, they often move on as soon as they've met the requirements for payment.

Vets schools have tried to combat the problem by giving admissions preferences to students from underserved areas, with the idea that they're more likely to go back. Even for kids who leave home at 18 with every intention of returning to be a large animal vet, it often doesn't work out that way.

Young large animal vets are subject to a lot of the forces that keep college graduates from coming back to small towns. Can they earn enough money to justify their degree? If they have a spouse who isn't a vet, can they get a good job? If they are single, is there anyone to date? If they have kids, are there childcare options and decent schools? A lot of rural areas struggle to provide what young people need to get started.

 

[simme]

Nurse practitioners and physician's assistants both have significantly higher educational requirements than veterinary technicians. There really isn't an equivalent in the veterinary profession.

Sure. My point is that there could be levels of vet med providers like there are levels of human medical providers - not the same titles or education. I think there are some "vet" services that could be provided by a skilled person with less than a DVM but operating under the supervision of one.
I know that there are some people that want to be a large animal doc, but don't end up making it. They might be prime candidates for such a structure since they have the "want to" motivation.

 

[Travlr]

Sure. My point is that there could be levels of vet med providers like there are levels of human medical providers - not the same titles or education. I think there are some "vet" services that could be provided by a skilled person with less than a DVM but operating under the supervision of one.
I know that there are some people that want to be a large animal doc, but don't end up making it. They might be prime candidates for such a structure since they have the "want to" motivation.

The "want to" is certainly a factor. I'm sure it could be used to filter out the ones tat are only in it for the money.

Some of my best memories are those from when I was helping the large animal vets. It was always interesting and you got to see so many great people and all kinds of country. One of my best memories was when the vet I was helping at the time asked me to drop off a portable squeeze. I was unhitching the unit from my truck and when I turned around there was a horse the size of a mastodon that had crept up on me. Scared me s**tless because it was literally about to nuzzle my shoulder as I turned and his head was about four feet long and over my head. And he wasn't the only one. There were about ten of them. One was a baby that had to be fifteen hands and 900 pounds. I still wonder how horses that size could approach without making a sound. Once I got over the startle response they became my best buddies. Gentle giants.

 

[Son of Butch]

I still wonder how horses that size could approach without making a sound.

I wondered that too... until I got my hearing tested.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I think that is the reason this is not much of a problem in the areas with lots of cattle and few people. They do what they have to do. When my daughter graduated, she worked at a 6 doctor mixed animal clinic in Georgia. There was a larger purebred operation in the area owned by a rich old guy. He had a young guy from the west (Montana or Idaho, I think) as his manager. This young guy came to the vet clinic to get supplies to do C-sections in case he needed to do one. The folks at the clinic were sort of surprised, but the young guy had done them before back home. Lots of folks don't have the confidence or skills to do those things. Lots of people don't have the knowledge.

The skills come from doing. The knowledge can be learned. It just takes the confidence to try.

 

[RDFF]

The skills come from doing. The knowledge can be learned. It just takes the confidence to try.

I expect that going forward, we're gonna to have to go back to just doing pretty much all our doctoring on our own (if we can legally get the meds/etc. that we need)... and if we can't do it, then old Bessie is probably not gonna make it. That'll result in a bigger "learning curve" for cattlemen (which might result in a "thinning of the herd" of cattlemen...), along with a natural thinning of the actual cattle herd some through a more forced "survival of the fittest" animal selection, rather than using crutches to prop up some that probably shouldn't be taking up space anyway... which will improve our cattlemen's overall abilities, and strengthen the herd genetics a bunch... and in the end, we'll probably be the better for it. Painful journey though.

 

[Brute 23]

We have discussed that also on here. They are coming after meds. I wouldn't want to be riding that govt train. We have been sink or swim for a long time. No money in meds.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

You can get a chute side blood test for a few dollars know if bred in about 10 minutes. Might save a lot trouble. As long as 30 days bred

Do you know what the accuracy percentage is ?

 

[moses388]

@Buck Randall - Welcome back! We missed you. Where's Buck? {click here}

 

[RDFF]

I expect that going forward, we're gonna to have to go back to just doing pretty much all our doctoring on our own (if we can legally get the meds/etc. that we need)... and if we can't do it, then old Bessie is probably not gonna make it. That'll result in a bigger "learning curve" for cattlemen (which might result in a "thinning of the herd" of cattlemen...), along with a natural thinning of the actual cattle herd some through a more forced "survival of the fittest" animal selection, rather than using crutches to prop up some that probably shouldn't be taking up space anyway... which will improve our cattlemen's overall abilities, and strengthen the herd genetics a bunch... and in the end, we'll probably be the better for it. Painful journey though.

The best and most profitable animal in the herd is the one that you can't remember anything about and don't know her number. You've never had to mess with her... she just quietly did her job in obscurity and never drew attention to herself for anything. Her number's not even in your little black book anywhere! Heck, she might not even HAVE a number anymore... she lost her eartag long ago, and you just never felt a need to put one back in!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Fortunately, we have lots of vets here. Upstate NY is the 3rd largest dairy state. My vet clinic has maybe 7-8 large animal vets, and several in house small animal vets. They do NOT have any place for you to haul your cattle into their facility. They do not take on new beef customers unless you have some sort of facility.
I do agree, you would think there could be an Vet tech licensed to do things like preg check, vaccinations, health papers.
My vet knows there is a serious problem if we call for an emergency visit. I have his cell # and can call and just ask his opinion on something unusual. He comes out mostly for Bruc. Vacc., health papers, and preg checks on my fall calvers. Anyone owning cattle should learn how to vaccinate their herd. Waste of money having a vet vaccinate, deworm, dehorn, castrate, etc. We all need to learn how to do our own. We do.

 

[DNelson]

probably going to see internet Vets, like there is for MD's. they will issue their prescriptions.

 

[greybeard]

My son is only ten, but he wants to be a bovine only vet. Said he doesn't want to have to mess with cats and dogs. I'm pretty proud

And he's pretty smart. The dogs and cats wouldn't be too terribly bad but dealing with their owners......

 

[Rmc]

And he's pretty smart. The dogs and cats wouldn't be too terribly bad but dealing with their owners......

Don't know to many owners of large animals that will pay for joint replacement surgery, but many dog owners will.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Don't know to many owners of large animals that will pay for joint replacement surgery, but many dog owners will.

Old short-term saying is a cow only needs one eye, two teats, and three legs...

 

[Travlr]

Don't know to many owners of large animals that will pay for joint replacement surgery, but many dog owners will.

Ain't THAT the truth... I've met people that had trouble putting beans on the table, but they brag about how much they spent to keep "Fluffy" on her feet.

 

[greybeard]

Don't know to many owners of large animals that will pay for joint replacement surgery, but many dog owners will.

Mostly because it's not socially (or legally allowed) to eat 'em?

A lot of this discussion reminds me of the fictitious Dr Joel Fleishman on northern exposure.

I do not know what the solution is to decreasing #s of large animal vets.
Yes, you have to have a love for that but love won't pay the light bill or the lease. Can't really blame a vet for switching to the part of vet practice that brings in the biggest revenue either. (We hear the same kind of thing among ourselves... "Go black hide or you're leaving $$$ on the table!!")

Govt or private subsidy may help one get thru school but after that, how can we ask them to accept a discount in the revenue they 'could' have coming in and, rarely have to leave the comfort of their own office to boot?

 

[Travlr]

Mostly because it's not socially (or legally allowed) to eat 'em?

A lot of this discussion reminds me of the fictitious Dr Joel Fleishman on northern exposure.

I do not know what the solution is to decreasing #s of large animal vets.
Yes, you have to have a love for that but love won't pay the light bill or the lease. Can't really blame a vet for switching to the part of vet practice that brings in the biggest revenue either. (We hear the same kind of thing among ourselves... "Go black hide or you're leaving $$$ on the table!!")

Govt or private subsidy may help one get thru school but after that, how can we ask them to accept a discount in the revenue they 'could' have coming in and, rarely have to leave the comfort of their own office to boot?

I've known one large animal vet that didn't keep a brick and mortar location. He worked out of his truck and his wife managed his appointments and billing out of their home. He had a heated storage unit for stocking essentials, but the truck had a very nice box on it that held everything he needed. He'd lease a new truck every three years and take the bed off to put the utility box on, and then do the same thing the next time replacing the pristine bed on the old lease. He didn't look like he was hurting and I'm sure his expenses were much less than vets keeping a business location.

I've even heard of human doctors doing something similar... making house calls rather than keeping an office.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Finding a large animal vet may go the way of calling a preacher. You the producers go together and build a practice. Comit to doing business there for X number of years and put out the call for a young vet.

 

[greybeard]

I've even heard of human doctors doing something similar... making house calls rather than keeping an office.

I've heard of it too, and even saw it for real, back in the 50s and 60s.
They sure seemed to do a lot with just that little black bag...