my appoligies

[coolwater]

.also he has about destroyed what was the middle class.you cant keep any extra money these days because its all going on the high priced fuel.its tacked onto most utility bills and everything you buy these days.and with his and chenneys interrests in the oil market they are smilling all the way to the bank and whomever says otherewise lives in a fantasy world or they voted for him and are too proud to admit he is a mistake.]

You must be trying to live to high on the hog. I'm
nothing but middle class at best and better off financially than I've ever been.
Of course we don't have to have the biggest pickup or fanciest car made every year. We don't have to see how much money we can spend or how many miles we can drive every day or week.

no i dont try to live "too high on the hog" in fact ive cut back as much as possible.i have updated all light fixtures to the new "low cost" energy efficiant ones.my lights stay off until dark.and my electric bill.let me rephrase that,everyones electric bills within this co op has drasticaly increased due to fuel.when the fuel surcharge is higher than the total energy bill there is a problem.and if ANYONE in this country says they arent paying more for any good right down to the groceries due to a fuel increase that person is either not doing the shopping or checkbook or they are in total denial.im glad to see that you are prospering in your middle class.im not jealous at all.this is supposed to be the land of prosperity.we just arent seeing it in our corner of the map.and i mean nobody is.

 

[coolwater]

Presidents get too much credit and too much blame. Just glad I can do both without fear of going to jail or having my head sliced off.

absolutely.thats what makes this country so great.we can criticize our leaders and not be imprisoned.but what im getting at is that it seems those that have spoken out against bush are somewhat deemed "dishonorable or anti American" and to tell you the truth that just galls me.that goes against this countrys right to keep our leaders in check.seems like most people have forgotten that our leaders are employees of this country.thats why we dont have a queen or king.if we dont like their work get rid of them and move on to the next guy.im not saying bush has control of everything and likewise is to be blamed for all of our "missfortunes" but he has really got us in a pickle.i would just as soon say it about a democrat or whomever just the same.

Been reading your posts coolwater. After I turned 40, reading became a bit difficult. It is hard for me to discern where your sentences start and where they stop. Not being critical of you lack of punctuation, it is simply hard on these 46 year old eyes.

I pretty much disagree wtih most of your thoughts, but I am interested in reading what you have to say nevertheless. As far as gas prices go, they have gone up, for several reasons. However, my SS taxes quadrupled under the Liberals. Ann Richards killed us all on property taxes after she passed the lotto "for the kids" and then decided that funding education with a lotto "is too cheesy." She tripled my property taxes. Dubya beat her hands down.

I am "middle class" by definition and my taxes have not seen anything close to the increase since we dumped Ann and now dumped Hillary.

My personal tax increases in a brief 4 years under Hillary and Ann would have bought fuel for years, at today's prices.

When America was being attacked under Bill, he always said, "We're going to do something about it." We were all talk back then.

You feel the economy is down? Every town I read about is posting record retail sales for '05, record sales tax revenue, attributed to thriving economy. Are these record sales tax revenues lies? I don't the auditors are pulling our leg.

Finally, I am not ashamed of voting for dubya.

Maybe we'll get a better one next time.

to start with why dont you go back and proof read your own post and quotes before criticizing mine.i may not have a college education becuase i was out working my be nice off while others had the luxury of setting in class earning a degree.i dont know if youre college educated or not and dont really care.but it only takes this dumb farmer very little to figure out whats going wrong with the bush administration.if you think bush cant help the American people out with these rising cost you are simply in denial or you have an interrest in the oil market.as for the increases in soc sec taxes goes, if the republicans would spend wiser our taxes wont have to increase to meet spending demand.onto the economy.if you think its just booming how about the auto workers that are getting their throats cut?i could go on and on about major corporations shutting down but dont have the time.lets get to ann richards.i do agree with you there.she is , and was , just an old windbag trying to make a name for herself.now lets get to fighting "the ones that attacked America" as i said earlier, i agree 100 % with your dubya.but the fight is in Afganastan not Iraq.he lied to this great country an became a fear monger to get us in this stinking war and now has no way out.dont know about your millitary background gut when his own generals are on national tv saying there isnt a plan then i just dont know either do you?and how about your dubyas trust.after the port screwup and his pleading to give it to the saudis doid you loose even the slightest trust in his decision making any?i will say this, by my pointing out the obvious doesnt make me anti American.it makes me the type of American this country was founded on.and the last thing is that if you dont think your dubya abuses his authority think again.go back and study who said and why it was said absolute power corrupts absolutely.then decide if you want a dubya or a clinton or whomever to have the control your dubya wants.

 

[AngusSenorita]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Coolwater, I can agree with some of that. I was 25 years old before the first college class, and I paid for it. No silver spoon here.

The Native Americans are the only ones who can say they have no ties to foreign history. Most all of us have ancestors who came in to this country and engaged in some sort of enterprise. The problem I have with the ports is that the investors have no intention of being American. If the lived here, I would feel different. I don't like our liberal media being controlled by foreign investors either.

Most of my votes are for the better of the candidates. Dubya was the best choice I had. If there had been a better choice for me, I would have made it. There wasn't. Just yesterday I voted absentee. There were cases of voting for the least of two evils. I made my choices. We'll see what happens.

The economy is good. Check your local surrounding cities sales tax revenue. The auditors are posting the '05 totals right now.

 

[Bez!]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

Boy do I think you got it wrong.

Do not end it there - tell us how the saving and investing is hurting the country please?

I think you are getting a point of view from an economics teacher who is allowing their political stripe to show.

First - How dare you "slam the rich" by making an accusation as you have? Do you truly know what they do with their hard earned money?

And, just exactly what is a rich person? Someone making 100K per year? Or perhaps 500K per year.

In some parts of the world if you make a buck a day you are rich - it is all relative.

They are the investors that keep your economy going. They are the risk takers that build the buildings. They are the risk takers that take an idea and develop it into things like the internet, the computer, the laser eye correction facility, the power you use to heat your house and light the house. Your country would not exist today without the risk taking entrepreneur.

Do these people who take the risks, invest in your country, create the things you use on a daily basis NOT deserve some reward? What would your country be like if these people were not living and investing and building there? I do not know if you have ever visited a third world country, or a communist country - but I have. Trust me - while there may be problems where you live - they pale in comparisom to others.

Live in North Korea and starve. Live in Ethiopia and hope no one attacks your house. Live in Saudi Arabia and go to jail if you are found worshipping as a Christian. And the beat goes on.

Second - tax the poor? Let me tell you - as a person who does business in your country on almost a daily basis - your poor are not being pounded with tax. Secondly if they are poor and not physically disabled - they are poor because they are lacking something. There is work to be had everywhere in your country - all you have to do is be prepared to leave mom's apron strings or the gang you belong to or the area you live in to go find it.

Work ethic anyone?

Why in the name of heavens do you think there are so many people in this world THAT WANT TO GET IN TO YOUR COUNTRY????

Look I am not a U.S. citizen - but when I listen to some of you younger folks talk - I really wonder who it is you are listening to in the first place.

I think you need to do a few things:

1. Challenge your teachers on their theories.
2. Challenge your friends on their theories.
3. Take a serious look at how the rest of the world lives and be darned thankful you are where you are.

I am not being a dink and jumping on you because I am hard nosed - well, there are some who would disagree with that comment - but - you really must get out a bit more.

Jump all over my comment folks - but remember - to repeat myself - there is a heck of a lot more folks trying to GET IN to your country that there are folks trying to leave. Why?

I will let you answer that one.

And try to think a bit more independently in the future.

Regards,

Bez!

 

[coolwater]

Coolwater, I can agree with some of that. I was 25 years old before the first college class, and I paid for it. No silver spoon here.

The Native Americans are the only ones who can say they have no ties to foreign history. Most all of us have ancestors who came in to this country and engaged in some sort of enterprise. The problem I have with the ports is that the investors have no intention of being American. If the lived here, I would feel different. I don't like our liberal media being controlled by foreign investors either.

Most of my votes are for the better of the candidates. Dubya was the best choice I had. If there had been a better choice for me, I would have made it. There wasn't. Just yesterday I voted absentee. There were cases of voting for the least of two evils. I made my choices. We'll see what happens.

The economy is good. Check your local surrounding cities sales tax revenue. The auditors are posting the '05 totals right now.

absolutely.i didnt like Kerry either.had a lot of strong points he just didnt have "backbone" he came off as dry or too laid back.but,again,that what i love about our country.you and i can dissagree,we can elect our leaders,we can criticize and fire them if they arent doing their job.i may have gotten bent a bit about bush.im just tired of seeing our troops come home in body bags.i love our troops.and to see them in the middle of this mess really strikes a nerve in me.and then with the port security issue.that really frightens me that we would allow "political correctness" secure our ports.i dont like profiling as its wrong but, be nice , this is our security.some may so what that is in new york.well those guys that say that dont have a clue what a "dity" bomb can do to the entire nation.i certainly have enjoyed our debate.thanks.

 

[cypressfarms]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

Boy do I think you got it wrong.

Do not end it there - tell us how the saving and investing is hurting the country please?

I think you are getting a point of view from an economics teacher who is allowing their political stripe to show.

First - How dare you "slam the rich" by making an accusation as you have? Do you truly know what they do with their hard earned money?

And, just exactly what is a rich person? Someone making 100K per year? Or perhaps 500K per year.

In some parts of the world if you make a buck a day you are rich - it is all relative.

They are the investors that keep your economy going. They are the risk takers that build the buildings. They are the risk takers that take an idea and develop it into things like the internet, the computer, the laser eye correction facility, the power you use to heat your house and light the house. Your country would not exist today without the risk taking entrepreneur.

Do these people who take the risks, invest in your country, create the things you use on a daily basis NOT deserve some reward? What would your country be like if these people were not living and investing and building there? I do not know if you have ever visited a third world country, or a communist country - but I have. Trust me - while there may be problems where you live - they pale in comparisom to others.

Live in North Korea and starve. Live in Ethiopia and hope no one attacks your house. Live in Saudi Arabia and go to jail if you are found worshipping as a Christian. And the beat goes on.

Second - tax the poor? Let me tell you - as a person who does business in your country on almost a daily basis - your poor are not being pounded with tax. Secondly if they are poor and not physically disabled - they are poor because they are lacking something. There is work to be had everywhere in your country - all you have to do is be prepared to leave mom's apron strings or the gang you belong to or the area you live in to go find it.

Work ethic anyone?

Why in the name of heavens do you think there are so many people in this world THAT WANT TO GET IN TO YOUR COUNTRY????

Look I am not a U.S. citizen - but when I listen to some of you younger folks talk - I really wonder who it is you are listening to in the first place.

I think you need to do a few things:

1. Challenge your teachers on their theories.
2. Challenge your friends on their theories.
3. Take a serious look at how the rest of the world lives and be darned thankful you are where you are.

I am not being a dink and jumping on you because I am hard nosed - well, there are some who would disagree with that comment - but - you really must get out a bit more.

Jump all over my comment folks - but remember - to repeat myself - there is a heck of a lot more folks trying to GET IN to your country that there are folks trying to leave. Why?

I will let you answer that one.

And try to think a bit more independently in the future.

Regards,

Bez!

Bez, cut the girl some slack! She's only 16. She hasn't learned yet that teachers can be biased and bring that bias to their teachings. I'm sure that no one in her class has the ability to poilitically hold their own against a teacher.

AngusSenorita, here's something for you to think about: Republicans, in general, believe in less taxes and a smaller government (meaning less govt. programs, less govt. involvement in the citizens lives). Democrats believe that the only way to improve the country is to tax more (especially on the citizens who earn more), and create govt. programs with the tax money to better the country. This is over simplifying both parties a lot, many citizens fall in between the two, but once elected our congresssmen/women are forced to draw party lines.

Here are a couple of things for you to think about, and maybe ask your teacher:

1. What do the "rich" do with their money? They do not just sit at a desk and count it, they invest it to make more money. These investments fund any and everything from cattle operations to multi-billion dollar corporations. How could any government replace this function?

2. If you make $100 a day and I make $50 a day, would it be fair to take $40/day from your check to run the government, and only $15/day from mine?

3. Some say "tax the rich" to "give to the poorer". If you increasingly taxed the rich to make all people earn the same, we would no longer be in a democracy, we would be in pure communism. I'm not talking about the Soviet's version, or even China's version, but true communism. True communism has everyone put what they earn into a big pot (for lack of a better description), and then all benefits are evenly distributed from the pot.

4. If there were no free enterprise and everyone made the same (basically ensuring less output from all workers), would this country have become so powerful globally?

By the way, I was in Newark,NJ 9/11 and was unfortunate enough to witness the 2nd trade tower fall across the hudson river. If 9/11 has done one thing, it has made my political beliefs even stronger.

So much for no politics

 

[aplusmnt]

I am way to sleep deprived at the moment to get in on this argument, but I will sleep better walking away from it knowing, that Bez, Cypress and Backhoe have did such a good job at it! Nice post from all three of you!!

In parting I do not agree with all that Bush has done, I wish he spent less, and not happy with the Port deal going on. But what president could please a single person in every area?

He is doing something to defend our country. Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea, Palestine who cares were he starts, they are all going to get their turn in the future. If Clinton would have did something those 8 years about these problems, maybe it would not be such a mess of things.

 

[Calman]

I don't get into politics arguing that much, but I believe that our presidient has much passed over to his watch that could have been nipped in the bud before he became presidient.
although i don't understand this port thing i feel that he is handling things well.
I do feel we are lucky all these things were not passed on to kerry or gore. but on the other hand i do like having the enternet invented.

Cal

 

[cypressfarms]

I love talking politics, because one could just as easily argue either side. Let's open this can of worms a little more, shall we?

What about the "government" does anyone know that doesn't come from the media? Kind of makes me wonder. I know politicians can't be trusted, I'm from Louisiana, but can the media be trusted?

Can anyone name a president that has gone through a recession, 9/11, and a hurricane that wiped out a major city, or anything close? Only two that come to my mind are:

Herbert Hoover, who got blamed for the depression

Franklin Roosevelt, who was credited for getting our country out of the depression and winning WWII.

Got news for ya, Hoover had little to do with the stock market collapse, and Roosevelt needed WWII to finally get the country out of the depression (10 years later), a war which would have happened regardless of which president sat in the White House.

 

[txag]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

maybe this will help explain it to you:

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of the distribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.

He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is you friend Audrey doing?"

She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

 

[Bez!]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

maybe this will help explain it to you:

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of the distribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.

He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is you friend Audrey doing?"

She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

Good one txag - I am stealing it and modifying it to fit my country.

Tired of folks blaming the rich without thinking.

Truth be known, almost all of you would be considered rich in my part of the world. If only because of your land, houses and animals being worth so much on the open market.

As for cutting her some slack Cypress - well there was a time when I might have - but in this day and age the young folks have to take up some of that slack. While I have a high opinion of the average teenager - if only becuse I have a couple of females in that age group here in the house - I have found as a whole the new aged teenager is less inclined to think independently on political issues.

2 years from now this person votes. Exercising a franchise that people fight and die for in some parts of the world. Having personally experienced this due to past employment I tend to think it is important that young folks are heavily challenged on politics. If only because it gives them more chance to think - and perhaps realize that teachers are not the only place one can go to get an education.

It also will soon affect their lives as it does ours - on a daily basis. In two years they may still live at home, but legally the parental firewall is no longer there - they are now adults. A little reality is sometimes a good thing.

I honestly believe it is because most tend to listen to music rather than read a book - yeah - just my thoughts - but most of them are quite capable of more thought - they just need to be prodded a bit.

Bez!

 

[Caustic Burno]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

All right you bunch of brats listen up Freedom is not free a few pennies in taxes aint cow flop. Men and women have paid a lot higher than taxes you are worried about. At this very minute our WW2 veterans that survived the likes of Omaha Beach and Iwo Jima are dying at 1500 a day. If you really want to know what things cost you need to study this generation they took us from horse and buggy to the moon, no other generation in our countries history paid anywhere near what these Americans have paid. We all could learn how to be better Americans by being more like America's greatest generation.

 

[Alan]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

Angus,

I'm glad to see that we have a young person willing to stand their ground on such a tough issue as politics. While I agree with Bez and Cypress, I'm happy that you as an active member of society realize your freedom to speak you opinion.

Okay, here's the but... A very wise person once told me "the worst way to ruin a good story is to hear the other side". You need to get the info yourself and not depend on just one source for it, wether it be a teacher or a group of friends or especialy the news media.

An example: The news media with Bush and this port take over by the Arab coalition of nations. CNN reports that this Arab coalition is link to terrorist groups and is funding terror activity. Therefore Bush is showing that his concerns are not with safe guarding the nation from terror attacks. Then they make the connection from this statement to how he has his own agenda on the war with Iraq. (this is CNN report, not my opinion). FOX news reports on the same story. This port deal is needed because our contracts with some of the Arab coalition (I know coalition is not the right word just can't recall the name of the group of Arab countries) for the rights to maintain militery bases and use their ports for military use is running out. This U.S. port deal is part of the new contract to insure us the continued use of those bases and ports for the war on terror.

Two completly different sides from the news media, I don't know how much of either I believe, but I do know I want the news media to be held legally responsible for any twist on the truth or out right lies, meaning heavy fines and jail time.

So what I'm saying is, get both sides and don't listen to one persons opinion just because the say they know for sure. NO ONE is completly non-bias on their beliefs, teachers, parents, freinds, news media, presidents, etc.

JMO,
Alan

 

[Bez!]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

All right you bunch of brats listen up Freedom is not free a few pennies in taxes aint cow flop. Men and women have paid a lot higher than taxes you are worried about. At this very minute our WW2 veterans that survived the likes of Omaha Beach and Iwo Jima are dying at 1500 a day. If you really want to know what things cost you need to study this generation they took us from horse and buggy to the moon, no other generation in our countries history paid anywhere near what these Americans have paid. We all could learn how to be better Americans by being more like America's greatest generation.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Alan]

Backhoeboogie-

I am 16 and in a school class(Current World Events) we talk about many political actions among other things. One would be taxes. If this generation does not pay its taxes then we(my generation) will be stuck with enormous tax rates after this huge debt from the war and for social security.

Bush is using the Trickle-Down effect and it is not working. By cutting the taxes on the rich he hopes they will contribute to the economy, but they save it. And by taxing the poor he deprives them.

I will end it there.

All right you bunch of brats listen up Freedom is not free a few pennies in taxes aint cow flop. Men and women have paid a lot higher than taxes you are worried about. At this very minute our WW2 veterans that survived the likes of Omaha Beach and Iwo Jima are dying at 1500 a day. If you really want to know what things cost you need to study this generation they took us from horse and buggy to the moon, no other generation in our countries history paid anywhere near what these Americans have paid. We all could learn how to be better Americans by being more like America's greatest generation.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Well said, WWII was not my generation, nor my farthers generation, but I have read the history on WWII and D-Day had to be a nightmare for those young men. Those iron doors of the beach transport boats would drop and the whole boat full would be mowed down with machine gun fire before they stepped a foot off. Let's not forget Viet Nam, we lost more men in Viet Nam in one day than we have lost this whole Iraq war, this said not to discount lives lost in Iraq or Afganistan, just to put things in prespective. Lets not forget the forgotten war, thanks to the service men and women that fought in the Korean War.

Thanks to all our Vets! for paying the price for my freedom.
Alan

 

[backhoeboogie]

I appreciate angusenorita and coolwater's input into this discussion. Without those two, I wouldn't be coming back and reading this thread. But, I hear the same thing on the television just about everyday. Some one will get on the tube and tell us the economy is in bad shape: we are not in a recession.

There are two young engineers in my workplace that have been hired in recent years, that are awesome kids. Great ethics, involvement, inginuity, a desire to excell, they have it all. There are some others that have a way to go but I am sure their values are still evolving. (kind of like mine before I had kids, got educated, and finally matured since I was slow at it). Anyway, I have hope for our future. The media paints a picture of my generation passing the baton to nothing but meth heads. That is not the case. Meth does happen to be an increasing problem.

There are young ones getting on this forum because they are interested in cattle, getting a good start in life, and many of us have cattle interest in common with them. I am glad to have them in this forum, even if I disagree with some of their views.

I am not ashamed of voting the way I voted. I thank everyone who has offered comments into this thread. This was a good discussion.

 

[Caustic Burno]

W, keep spending the cost of missles and tanks are dirt cheap compared to what we have had to pay in the past to be free.



http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0829/p15s01-cogn.html

http://www.bessel.org/uswars.htm

 

[rkm]

My point exactly! Presidents get too much credit and blame. Todays world is very complicated.

 

[Caustic Burno]

.also he has about destroyed what was the middle class.you cant keep any extra money these days because its all going on the high priced fuel.its tacked onto most utility bills and everything you buy these days.and with his and chenneys interrests in the oil market they are smilling all the way to the bank and whomever says otherewise lives in a fantasy world or they voted for him and are too proud to admit he is a mistake.]

You must be trying to live to high on the hog. I'm
nothing but middle class at best and better off financially than I've ever been.
Of course we don't have to have the biggest pickup or fanciest car made every year. We don't have to see how much money we can spend or how many miles we can drive every day or week.

no i dont try to live "too high on the hog" in fact ive cut back as much as possible.i have updated all light fixtures to the new "low cost" energy efficiant ones.my lights stay off until dark.and my electric bill.let me rephrase that,everyones electric bills within this co op has drasticaly increased due to fuel.when the fuel surcharge is higher than the total energy bill there is a problem.and if ANYONE in this country says they arent paying more for any good right down to the groceries due to a fuel increase that person is either not doing the shopping or checkbook or they are in total denial.im glad to see that you are prospering in your middle class.im not jealous at all.this is supposed to be the land of prosperity.we just arent seeing it in our corner of the map.and i mean nobody is.

Hogwash lets see you posted the other day about driving a Chevy 4X4 Crew Cab,deer leases, hunting dang near every day and buying Emu's for a spoiled brat daughter. Your post are crap your talkin out of both sides of your mouth.
You are trying to live beyond your means or PO'd you can't play as much over eletricity bill, grow up it's cheaper today than it was in the seventies. Your problem is you are from the I want it all generation and now. I don't know of a lot of poor famlies buying emu's paying for deer lease's and driving 30,000 dollar trucks.

To quote a friend Nuff said.