Looking forward past the drought

[MadRanchTX]

OK so I'm tired of wining about the drought and hay so it seems reasonable to go forward with plans to be more drought resistant if such a thing is possible, provide a longer grazing season, and improve the soil for my own good and those who come after me. This should be for folks who live in my general area but any and all advice is welcome. As far as I can tell my place has never been farmed, it's mostly native type grasses a mix of bunch and sod forming. Weeds aren't to bad and I think if the grass was healthier they would get pushed out. I'm not dead set against plowing everything under and starting over but I would rather not. I spoke with the county extension agent who seems like a really nice guy but I'm a small timer and new so I don't think I got his full attention. Basically he told me cool season grasses don't do well here, stick with native grasses, and only a couple of legumes will grow here. I looked one of them up and it's supposedly fatal to cattle. I have not done a soil sample yet but will before I do anything. Also I want to use the least amount of chemicals as possible. I'm not making hay just need grazing. Ground is mostly sandy loam with some rock.With the thought of I have more time than money here are my questions.
1-What is the most efficient way to improve the soil itself, it seems to me with better soil it will support better grass, hold moisture better, etc. Compost in the garden works wonders but this is a slightly larger scale. I've read about pasture renovators some people swear by them others think it's a waste of time. I can't imagine they work better than the ankle breaking cracks in the ground I currently have.
2-Warm season native grasses I can figure out myself. But I'm open to suggestion on low input grasses.
3-Over seeding cool season grasses, perennials would be great, do any work here or if you plant annuals specifically what works well in this area and what kind of rate. This is directly pointed at trying to reduce dependence on purchased hay.
4-Legumes, sounds like the wonder drug for not having to spread nitrogen, what works here and what type of rate or % do you need to really be effective.
Mark

 

[baleflipper]

Best solution is irrigation system.

 

[MarkM]

Research managed or rotational grazing.

Some nice articles on soil fertility here.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/index.html

 

[BC]

Don't be too hard on your county agent, if he is like mine he has been swamped with dead tree calls (homeowners and absentee landowners just can not grasp how dry this summer has been). He is right about not having good perrinial cool season grasses in Texas (if you were in Northeast Texas you could grow fescue). Visit with him again about what cool season annuals and clovers will work in Parker County. Your soils are so different than what we have in Van Zandt County that I could not venture to suggest clover varieties.

Get a soil test asap. Clover planting time will be here in about 30 days. Start reading up on intensive rotational grazing. You get better manure redistribution.

 

[shaz]

Unrolling hay. Spreads seed and is the best manure distibution scheme I've seen. If you have really even grass growth and/or soil conditions then unrolling hay is a good bet. Doesn't make those mudholes either.

 

[wbvs58]

A legume I have used successfully in Australia is Serradella. It likes acid sandy soil, is very hardy, survives drought, the yellow flowering varieties have very hard seeds and will keep coming up each year. It oversows existing pasture reasonable well.
It is worth reading up on.
Ken

 

[IL cow man]

The best thing will be to Manage intensive Grazing and possibly move up to High Density grazing(Mob Grazing). Get a some of Jim Gerrish's books..Look up:

American Grazing Land Services

 

[novatech]

I think it is good to look forward for better days when we finally get some rain. At present what I see people needing to do is preparing for erosion control. If you are having to feed hay the best place to put it is where the leftovers will catch some of the top soil you may otherwise loose. Spreading any kind of fibrous organic mater across the pasture will help. I Think even cotton trash would help. Definitely to not sink a plow into the soil before this drought has broken. The leftover root systems from grass will help hold the soil in place even if it is dead.
So lets say the drought has broken and we are back to a more normal rainfall. First as has been said you should do a soil test. P , K and lime move very slowly through the soil and should be plowed in. N when applied heavily will kill of the natural microbes that you need for proper soil health.
I like to look at what grows naturally on the particular ground. You have a mixture of clump grasses and sod grasses. I would go back with similar grasses but improved varieties. For example you could replace the native blue stem with WW B Dahl which has better TDN. For the sod grass maybe Tifton 85. Deep rooted grasses will get water but they also brink up nutrients from deep within the ground. Clover, medic, or some other form of legume should always be incorporated in a forage program. I like to incorporate annual rye, wither it does well or not because it helps aerate the soil with it,s deep root system.
From then on it will be proper pasture/grazing management that can make soil improvements. IMO mob or intensive grazing is the best, given ideal conditions, but a very least a rotational system should be used.
Here is a link where you can find out a little more about your particular soil.
http://soils.usda.gov/survey/online_sur ... Parker.pdf
If you know your longitude and latitude you can find your piece of property.

 

[MadRanchTX]

Irrigation ... All I can say is WOW

My place is split into 4 pastures, each with water and minerals, certainly not intensive grazing but they do rotate through. I see the advantages to more intensive grazing but just physically don't have the time to deal with that. Boy it was a quick trip through the pastures this year.

I'm not really down on the extension agent, I realize he's overworked and the state is cutting their funding and their single largest expense is labor so more workload for him in the immediate future.

I'm going to try unrolling hay this year. Last winter I feed in two spots and then in the spring scraped them and made a compost pile out of the remains. I was amazed at the difference in the grass in those two areas. Would make the perfect fertilizer commercial.

I'll get a soil sample together and see what I have to work with/on. Like I said I have more time than money so I'll probably just over seed with a couple different varieties and see what works.

Thanks for the soil survey, I'll have to figure out what my longitude and latitude are but I can see three distinctly different types of soil.

Thanks all

 

[1wlimo]

Organic matter is always good in soil and the more you can get the better your soil will be. Increases micbobial activity, increases water retention, nutrient retention, helps to reduce the risk of compaction etc.

To see if you need a pasture renovator or ever what depth to run one at the only way to know is to dig holes and look at the soil.

 

[Brute 23]

Aerate
Keep you hd numbers low. It only takes one of these droughts to burn up that money supposetly left on the table from wet years.
Hay barns and irrigation.

 

[1982vett]

Aerate
Keep you hd numbers low. It only takes one of these droughts to burn up that money supposetly left on the table from wet years.
Hay barns and irrigation.

Must realize too, that irrigation has it's economic limitations.......

 

[Paul Ewing]

We are just north of the Parker/Wise line and while perennial cool season grasses don't do well in out area, there are a number of cool season annuals that do. We have used annual ryegrass and if you let it reseed in the spring it almost acts like a perennial. We haven't put any out in years, but get a good stand if we get the rains in the fall and late winter. We have also had good luck with oats and cereal rye. The only legume we have done is crimson clover but it also did well. I am hoping to put out several legumes, oats, rye, and some more ryegrass in different pastures this fall, but I am not sure how much will come up without more rain.

Luckily I convinced my father to switch to a more rotational model of grazing this year and it has helped keep the fields in fair shape. We had to start feeding hay a couple weeks ago to save the main fields from over grazing. We still rotate them through a couple of the coastal fields, but they spend most of the time in the current hay feeding pastures. We will probably have to cut back on second tier replacement heifers and most of the steers we were saving for direct sales next spring, but since the market is still up we will make more than if we bought more hay this year and over wintered them.

 

[Brute 23]

I understand that. If it works for you use it... If not don't. We don't. Some people do. It's just an option.

People need to start adapting. These are not the same weather patterns of our dads, grandfathers, and great grandfathers. Every thing I read says the weather patterns are going to become more sporadic. We will have more extremes. It will be really wet then really dry. This avg rainfall stuff will be just a number. You will have to use every wet year to prepare for the dry year because you know its coming.

 

[1982vett]

I understand that. If it works for you use it... If not don't. We don't. Some people do. It's just an option.

People need to start adapting. These are not the same weather patterns of our dads, grandfathers, and great grandfathers. Every thing I read says the weather patterns are going to become more sporadic. We will have more extremes. It will be really wet then really dry. This avg rainfall stuff will be just a number. You will have to use every wet year to prepare for the dry year because you know its coming.

Best advice I've seen yet! Puts all my hee-hawing into perspective.....

 

[MadRanchTX]

Paul-The extension agent told me to try Illinois bundleflower for a legume. I think I'll try that along with some clover and rye grass. If you would, PM me with who you buy seed from.

Brute & vett-This is my second full year with cows. Year 1 I rotated the cows and shredded behind them trying to knock down the weed population. Fed hay from mid December to mid April. Things looked good and I thought this is going to be easy. I knew the pastures need to be improved, and its in the grand scheme, but there are other more pressing things like how to keep the cows healthy and at home (I'm still amazed a 600 lb. calf can jump a 4' fence from a stand still) and if I can get away with feeding for 4 months I have time to figure out how to do it and proceed over time. Year 2 looks like feeding 9-10 months instead of 4 months. Guess what goes to the top of the list in the grand scheme. I'm new and thats probably obvious but I only need to be hit over the head twice before I start to figure things out. Getting the soil in shape to take advantage of the wet times and survive the dry ones is my priority, I know it can't be done overnight, might take 10 years, I don't know. I'm just trying to collect information and get moving in the best and most feasible way to accomplish the goal. I don't have generations of knowledge to draw from, I also don't have generations of preconceived notions to overcome. I'm sure thats a net loss for me but it's what I have to work with.

Keep the ideas coming I'm open to anything. I'll have to admit I chuckled about the irrigation thing. I have one well as a source of water, right now I'm just praying it doesn't run dry.

 

[Isomade]

Paul-The extension agent told me to try Illinois bundleflower for a legume. I think I'll try that along with some clover and rye grass. If you would, PM me with who you buy seed from.

Brute & vett-This is my second full year with cows. Year 1 I rotated the cows and shredded behind them trying to knock down the weed population. Fed hay from mid December to mid April. Things looked good and I thought this is going to be easy. I knew the pastures need to be improved, and its in the grand scheme, but there are other more pressing things like how to keep the cows healthy and at home (I'm still amazed a 600 lb. calf can jump a 4' fence from a stand still) and if I can get away with feeding for 4 months I have time to figure out how to do it and proceed over time. Year 2 looks like feeding 9-10 months instead of 4 months. Guess what goes to the top of the list in the grand scheme. I'm new and thats probably obvious but I only need to be hit over the head twice before I start to figure things out. Getting the soil in shape to take advantage of the
wet times and survive the dry ones is my priority, I know it can't be done overnight, might take 10 years, I don't know. I'm just trying to collect information and get moving in the best and most feasible way to accomplish the goal. I don't have generations of knowledge to draw from, I also don't have generations of preconceived notions to overcome. I'm sure thats a net loss for me but it's what I have to work with.

Keep the ideas coming I'm open to anything. I'll have to admit I chuckled about the irrigation thing. I have one well as a source of water, right now I'm just praying it doesn't run dry.

Mad, I like your attitude. As far as generations of knowledge to draw from most folks have never seen anything like this before. I know I haven't seen anything close to this but I'm just 34. So I stopped and talked to a neighbor that is nearing 80 years old and made his living off cattle his entire life. I asked him for words of wisdom and he said "He!!, I don't know son. I'm nearly 80 years old and this beats all I've ever seen. All I can tell you is do what you have to do to keep em till at least spring, they'll be worth twice what you will get now and you can feed for a lot cheaper than that."

 

[Douglas]

I know irrigation sounds a little out there, but it may be the future for some. The world is going to need more food from less land. Cattle are going to need to eat less human food (grain) and more grass. If you have access to water, an irrigations system opens up a whole new world of options. With less risk of drought you can plant more improved varieties of grass and legumes with higher productivity. And you can manage more cattle per acre. One farm in the south could have both warm and cool season grasses, winter annuals, and use little stored feed. This will be especially helpful on small farms that could also use the irrigation for specialty crops or produce rotated with winter annuals.

 

[MadRanchTX]

I have a buddy who lives on 5 acres in Idaho. He had a horse but it died this spring. During the growing season he can irrigate for free, I guess water is plentiful there. I think he told me his allotment is 1 acre-foot per week. I may have misunderstood him, that sounds like an awful lot of water. Without the horse the grass is shoulder high this year. I'd be jealous but then I think about winters.

 

[novatech]

Paul-The extension agent told me to try Illinois bundleflower for a legume. I think I'll try that along with some clover and rye grass. If you would, PM me with who you buy seed from.


Keep the ideas coming I'm open to anything. I'll have to admit I chuckled about the irrigation thing. I have one well as a source of water, right now I'm just praying it doesn't run dry.

After seeing Illinois bundleflower growing wild in my area I decided to try some. Just a small experimental area. It seems to like a lot of water to germinate. Once established it is very drought hardy. It is one of the few things still alive in the pasture. You might want to do googling on it. There has been a lot of research done.
It may have the potential to make a great warm season legume once established.