longhorns

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> After reading your post I talked
> with a friend of mine at the gym.
> He is a heart sergen and performs
> open heart surgery four days of
> the week. According to him you can
> have a quality life or end up in a
> pine box. He recommends lean
> Longhorn beef, or buffalo over
> fatty Angus meat. He said as long
> as people snort Cocaine and eat
> fatty meat like Angus he will be
> able to afford two homes in the
> Islands and a leer jet.

> I have never eaten Longhorn or
> buffalo, but with high blood
> pressure running in the family I
> should start if I want to see the
> other side of forty. Maybe
> Longhorns aren't for everyone, but
> it dosen't sound like Angus are
> either!

Well there is another solution for you and the DR's comunity already know about it Its called Beefalo! It is also the best meat I have ever had hands down!SEARCH BEEFALO on your browser good luck!

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> I think one could make a case that
> there's more Angus beef sold
> worldwide than any other breed.
> According to Dr. Darrel Peel from
> Ok State University, thirty
> percent (30%) of the world's beef
> is produced on the North American
> Continent, Mexico, US and Canada.
> A CattleFax survey a few years ago
> showed over 60% of the cow herds
> in the US have Angus influence.
> The American Angus Assn. expects
> that to reach 80% in the next 5-10
> years. Canada's beef industry is
> only about 12% the size of the US
> and they're turning black, too.
> Does anyone know the percentage? I
> don't know how Mexico's beef
> industry compares to the US, but
> Dr. Peel says that Mexican
> cattlemen are receiving the "same
> sharp marketing signals about the
> color of hide, quality of cattle,
> frame size…" as US cattlemen are
> receiving. Mexican cattlemen are
> as smart as US and Canadian
> cattlemen. They'll figure out what
> works in their environment and
> management program and I'll bet
> many of them can and will use
> Angus genetics.

I honestly thought it was cattleman basics 101 Angus were hardy, there black hide held up inall weather conditionds,they finish faster etc. They don't have some of the eye probblems that other breeds have. so on and so on. LOng horns are a very old breed as we all know they really have a place in the breeding of horns for rodeo. I see alot of crossbreeding going on for the horns.I personaly know a stear worth more than my best arabian horse due to his color BLACK and the size of his horns.TOYOTA wanted him for a comerical however the owner wouldn't haul him as he was afraid of breaking the horns.

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Let the Euro,s eat and grow what they want...I have been there and the meat I ate , well was not very good.... Now with there feed practices, I am not sure about eating any more of it...I know what I feed my cows, I know how their meat taste, and for that reason alone, I like my home grown cows... I knew when I made that statement there would be some Euros,Aussie or prehaps som South Americans that would differ from my opion...but fact is In U.S.A. cows are turning Black...There are more Black Angus Reg. than the next four breeds total... The reason is Bulls to use on other type cows...Black Angus turn other cows both polled and Black..both traits are O.K. in my book. I do not want horns and angus crosses bring the best money in my area... I have thought about getting a couple of Longhorns to put out front of the house because they are pretty but for the price I think a couple of good Black Angus heifers would be a better buy...alf

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Some years I had by-pass surgery (3 99% clogged). I'm a carnivore, meat is alwasy the primary part of every meal. My cholesteral has been very low, boarding on too low. All the numbers have been in the range that the docs are just thrilled with. BP runs around 115/60. Heredity, and smoking 3 packs a day for 40 plus years probably had more to do with it then my diet. Chicken seldom, pork (ham/bacon) frequently, BEEF every day, usually twice a day. And it isn't the flavorless lean stuff except for the burger.

dun

> After reading your post I talked
> with a friend of mine at the gym.
> He is a heart sergen and performs
> open heart surgery four days of
> the week. According to him you can
> have a quality life or end up in a
> pine box. He recommends lean
> Longhorn beef, or buffalo over
> fatty Angus meat. He said as long
> as people snort Cocaine and eat
> fatty meat like Angus he will be
> able to afford two homes in the
> Islands and a leer jet.

> I have never eaten Longhorn or
> buffalo, but with high blood
> pressure running in the family I
> should start if I want to see the
> other side of forty. Maybe
> Longhorns aren't for everyone, but
> it dosen't sound like Angus are
> either!
 
I hate to admit it but the freezer got low on beef recently and I had to buy some beef at the grocery store. The beef I bought was not a pleasant eating a experience, it was tough. If the consumer is regualarly buying this quality of beef I can see why we had a drop in beef consumption for almost 20 years. Say what you will about CAB, I have never had a bad experience eating experience with it. Cattle that grade choice have a higher percent chance to make a the consumer happy. The breed associations need to help the individual breeders identify the animals that produce offspring that excel in economic traits. John I raised registered angus and I am proud of it. I still am waiting to find out what your prefered breed or cross is.

pat

> Did I say I have a
> "choosen" breed? I have
> a preferred food = beef. CAB? NO,
> I prefer to know what I am
> consuming. As you may have
> noticed, I have little patience
> for Angus breeders
> "attitude", a little
> like their cattle.
 
Congratulations, according to your own propaganda, the chances are that the tough beef you bought from the store was angus or angus cross beef. Of course there is no way to know for sure, just as there is no way to know for sure if you are buying CAB. Guess you realize by now, that I don't appreciate that too much.

You should be proud if you raise Angus and sell seedstock. If you raise pb angus for commercial cattle, you should be ashamed.

What or why does it matter what my favorite cross breed is? But you will notice that it is a cross. Way too much research spelling out the value of crossbreeding to ignor.
 
Many people are breeding longhorns for many different purposes, such as Horns, Color, Rodeo, BEEF, etc... However, just because they have been around for a Very Long time does not make them an old breed. there are many people that breed them for a 'Traditional' look, but at the same time there are a lot of breeders taking great strides to make their longhorns into Good Cattle...

Longhorns are goin in so many directions right now you just have to find the breeder that works for you



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> Many people are breeding longhorns
> for many different purposes, such
> as Horns, Color, Rodeo, BEEF,
> etc... However, just because they
> have been around for a Very Long
> time does not make them an old
> breed. there are many people that
> breed them for a 'Traditional'
> look, but at the same time there
> are a lot of breeders taking great
> strides to make their longhorns
> into Good Cattle...

> Longhorns are goin in so many
> directions right now you just have
> to find the breeder that works for
> you

Yes Ryan you may be right.However " old" is not a word as in a put down It is meant as special,strong genitcs.They were one of the first breeds in the us.And like every cow breed they have a special place with those who breed them.However I have noticed that the Longhorns who have the best horns in relation to size,length etc. are crossed with another breed who produces strong horns.They use them mostly for rodeo in our area. I hope that Longhorn breeders continue to breed the animals as they are beautiful.

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I am glad you did not mean 'old' as an insult. Just another comment...Most of the Longhorns that you will see with the really Long horns, usually do not have as good of bodies as other longhorns in the breed. there are many people that tend to breed longhorns strictly for horn, and do not pay attention to the structure of their animals, and that is a shame

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Not to bash Longhorns but aren't those things growing man-killing horns and wasteing money?? I'm not a Longhorn fan and never will be. They had their place in history and lost it to better animals Angus aren't perfect but no breed is. The only thing Angus has over other breeds is it usually throws black calves and marbles well as most British breeds do. Personally I'm sick of angus getting bashed when the other 300 plus breeds have just as many faults be it dishonest breeders or poor quality. We raise Angus cross because they bring the most at sell time but we also run about 50 Charlois just incase. And in our experience the angus finish out faster and keep alot better on the same amount of feed. Just my thoughts...and RA Bill I'm glad longhorns work for you, because they don't work for anybody up in my territory. Jake



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about your comment 'man-killing horns and wasting money': longhorns are one of, if not the, most gentle breeds around. we have kids showing at shows before they can even walk, to the best of my knowledge longhorns are the only breed to be trained to ride, AND you can ask any longhorn breeder and they will disagree with you about wasting money.

However, longhorns are good to cross because of longevity, or calving ease, or whatever, but they are docked at the sale barn because of color horn and most 'sale-barn' longhorns are not of good quality.

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> about your comment 'man-killing
> horns and wasting money':
> longhorns are one of, if not the,
> most gentle breeds around. we have
> kids showing at shows before they
> can even walk, to the best of my
> knowledge longhorns are the only
> breed to be trained to ride, AND
> you can ask any longhorn breeder
> and they will disagree with you
> about wasting money.

> However, longhorns are good to
> cross because of longevity, or
> calving ease, or whatever, but
> they are docked at the sale barn
> because of color horn and most
> 'sale-barn' longhorns are not of
> good quality.

I just feel that quality is up to the breeder.What one sees as quality another won't each person has his/her own opinion about conformation.thats why we have breed standards.As for killer horns I personaly can tell of one time I was training a horse ( I was a trainer for 30 yrs.)I saw my neighboors Longhorn steer out.This animal had HUGE horns.I knew he was gentle,but had never had a reason to go near him. He was out on the road and cars were stopped, people didn't want to go arround him because of hitting his horns.I stopped what I was doing and walked up to him..I swallowed and told him lets just see how gentle you are,I threw a rope arround his horns said ok big boy lets go home. That critter just led better than some horses I know.They are good natured animals.I hope the cattlemen who breed these animals hold to the ideals set by the standards keep breeding for gentle animals we all can continue to admire

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Why should I be ashamed of raising registered angus and running them as a commercial herd? The same selection criteria are apply to the registered cattle as dads xbreds. The cattle must perform or "they grow wheels" to quote Dun. The majority of the bulls we sell go to commercial herds to improve their weaning weights and quality of cattle. I sell my steers right along with my customers at the Maine beef producers feeder calf sales.

As far as the beef I bought in the local store it was not CAB. I have no idea what the breed or breeds the meat came from but I do know it was a lousy eating.

patb

> Congratulations, according to your
> own propaganda, the chances are
> that the tough beef you bought
> from the store was angus or angus
> cross beef. Of course there is no
> way to know for sure, just as
> there is no way to know for sure
> if you are buying CAB. Guess you
> realize by now, that I don't
> appreciate that too much.

> You should be proud if you raise
> Angus and sell seedstock. If you
> raise pb angus for commercial
> cattle, you should be ashamed.

> What or why does it matter what my
> favorite cross breed is? But you
> will notice that it is a cross.
> Way too much research spelling out
> the value of crossbreeding to
> ignor.
 
I apologize for not being clear so you could understand. Let me try again.

1. Concerning tough beef in the supermarket. If it is NOT labeled CAB, then it is probably NOT CAB. Follow me so far? I did NOT say that you ate CAB. All angus derived beef is NOT CAB, just as ALL CAB is NOT angus derived. Still with me?

What I said, was, that based on the odds, and based upon Angus breeder's own information, (such as posted below) the greatest chance is that any beef you purchase in a supermarket is angus derived, the odds are better that it is from angus genetics than any other breed. Does that mean it was? NO, maybe yes, maybe no. Does that mean you or I or anyone else can tell when they consume the beef, what breed it comes from? NO. You are free to believe anything you wish, but believe it or not, angus derived beef can be tough, just like any other breed. YES, genetics are important to beef palatability, but they are NOT the only factor in beef tenderness.

EXHIBIT A - directly from a very recent post on this very board =

"I think one could make a case that there's more Angus beef sold worldwide than any other breed. According to Dr. Darrel Peel from Ok State University, thirty percent (30%) of the world's beef is produced on the North American Continent, Mexico, US and Canada. A CattleFax survey a few years ago showed over 60% of the cow herds in the US have Angus influence"

Do you have any understanding about what I said and am writing now? Try rereading it again without the chip on your shoulder and your dark attitude.

OK, now on to the next topic.

2. If you sell intact bulls to others for breeding purposes, you are in the seedstock business. Seedstock means breeding stock. I wrote that if you raised purebred Angus for SEEDSTOCK production, you SHOULD be proud of the breed. If you are NOT proud of the breed you raise, then you are either raising the wrong breed or should not be in the seedstock business. Is that too confusing? Anyone who sells breeding stock to other people damn sure better believe in the genetics they are selling or they are not cattle breeders, they are con artists. Is it clear yet? One more time. If you raise cattle to sell as breeding stock, you are raising seedstock. It doesn't matter HOW you raise them. In fact, if you run them like commercial cattle (in other words, if you don't give them special treatment, you manage as if you would, were you NOT raising seedstock) then you are to be commended. You are providing more value in the seedstock you sell than most.

If you understand what is seedstock and what is NOT seedstock, then we will move on.

Let me repeat my statement and explain it to you. If you are raising purebred cattle, angus or otherwise (other than purebred composites, which is a whole different topic) as a commercial beef producing herd, you should be ashamed. Again, by commerical herd, I am talking about cattle that are raised to sell as feeder or slaughter animals, not as breeding stock. Yes, each and every seedstock herd should have animals that go for commerical beef, but that is a byproduct rather than the primary focus.

Why should anyone who is raising straightbred cattle commercially be ashamed? Because they are shorting themselves, their families and their business of the proven and documented 25-30% gain in production from hybrid vigor or heterosis. Now there is no law about what kind of cattle you must raise, so you can raise anything your heart desires and the only downside is getting beat up on these types of forums.

Contrary to what certain angus breeders and the angus association would have you believe, angus are subject to the very same natural genetic laws as any other breed. Crossbreeding is more productive than straight breeding. End of discussion.

I hope you now understand what I wrote. I have no idea how to make my statements any clearer.

> Why should I be ashamed of raising
> registered angus and running them
> as a commercial herd? The same
> selection criteria are apply to
> the registered cattle as dads
> xbreds. The cattle must perform or
> "they grow wheels" to
> quote Dun. The majority of the
> bulls we sell go to commercial
> herds to improve their weaning
> weights and quality of cattle. I
> sell my steers right along with my
> customers at the Maine beef
> producers feeder calf sales.

> As far as the beef I bought in the
> local store it was not CAB. I have
> no idea what the breed or breeds
> the meat came from but I do know
> it was a lousy eating.

> patb
 
John what bull or breed should I breed my angus cows to to get this promised 150 plus LB extra weaning weight? I want most of the females replacement quality since I do not buy in replacements. I want no frame creep, or increased calving problems and steers to grade choice at slaughter. I would like to cash in on this promised hybrid vigor of your statement (below).

pat

> Why should anyone who is raising
> straightbred cattle commercially
> be ashamed? Because they are
> shorting themselves, their
> families and their business of the
> proven and documented 25-30% gain
> in production from hybrid vigor or
> heterosis. Now there is no law
> about what kind of cattle you must
> raise, so you can raise anything
> your heart desires and the only
> downside is getting beat up on
> these types of forums.
 
I suggest you save your bull money and instead invest in reading comprehension lessons. Did I say you would get 150 lb increase in weaning weight from any bull?

No, you NEED to keep breeding straight angus. Real simple, breed the polled black bull to the polled black cow, and chances are you will get a polled black calf. I believe that is as much breeding complexity as you need in your life.

And best of luck selecting beef in the supermarket.
 
Why should anyone who is raising
> straightbred cattle commercially
> be ashamed? Because they are
> shorting themselves, their
> families and their business of the
> proven and documented 25-30% gain
> in production from hybrid vigor or
> heterosis.

Where I went to school 25 percent of 600 was 150. Our 205 day weaning weight is over 600 Lb. According to your quote if I cross breed I should get a 25 to 30 percent increase in gain which equates to 150 plus pounds.

I will leave you with this thought. The US beef consumption started falling with the increased influence of non-british breeds. The US beef comsumption started increasing with the increased infuence of Angus and other british breeds.

pat

PS I would still like to know what you breeds your herd consists of.
 
WOW, over 600 pounds! Impressive! Am I supposed to be impressed? You guessed it, doesn't mean a damn thing to me. I am impressed with people who are actually profitable rather than those who believe that high weaning weights are directly correlated to profit. With your interpretation about "production" equating weaning weight, I have to admit I was wrong about your breeding program. Black to black will never get your "production" up to where you want it.

Word to the wise, as you seem to believe that weaning weight means production, I would be careful who I was trying to impress with 600 pound weaning weights, especially when it seems you are achieving that "tremendous milestone" with bull calves. Hint, many other breeds with real performance would not be too happy about only 600 pound weaning weights. They would feel their "production" was way down. Pick up a Fleckvieh semen catalog some time.

As far as your ability to parrot Angus BS, the AAA should be proud. At least if you are going to make such statements, make them RIGHT. Please review your notes.

U.S. Beef consumption fluctuates depending upon the amounts of beef produced and imported minus exports. What you are trying to imply is that BEEF DEMAND is somehow related to a change in the genetic makeup of the U.S. Beef production herd. As you may guess, I do not believe your statement for one instant, but actual cause and effect are probably difficult to prove one way or the other, so just hang in there and keep spouting BLACK BS.

In reality, as the percentage of Angus genetics has increased in the national herd......over a period of the past 20 years or so, consumer demand for beef was going down. It has only been in the past 2 years that actual consumer beef demand has increased.

As far as the genetic makeup of my cattle herd, you would have absolutely no comprehension of my genetic program, so you will just have to guess, no doubt that you will be wrong.

> Where I went to school 25 percent
> of 600 was 150. Our 205 day
> weaning weight is over 600 Lb.
> According to your quote if I cross
> breed I should get a 25 to 30
> percent increase in gain which
> equates to 150 plus pounds.

> I will leave you with this
> thought. The US beef consumption
> started falling with the increased
> influence of non-british breeds.
> The US beef comsumption started
> increasing with the increased
> infuence of Angus and other
> british breeds.

> pat

> PS I would still like to know what
> you breeds your herd consists of.
 
Where to start, John S. while your writing and spelling are clear , you are wrong on many things.. I am sure you do not see this but when you say breed Black and poll to Black and poll that does not mean Black Angus to Black Angus... There was a time when your wording might of ment Angus...This day and age Black and polled could be,Angus, Brangus, Limms,Simms, Gelvieh, Bravieh and maybe others that I am missing.. I sure people that are pro Angus might have a chip on their shoulder from you writings. My friends who raise Black and polled Limms might take a difference of opion...The cow people that raise Brangus might also not agree with you.. Some Simm. breeder who raise Black and poll might not like you writings either. I say that I believe that my pure blooded Black and polled Angus crossed with BLACK and POLLED Brangus,Limms,Simms and who knows what else might all Hybrid vigor calfs that might fit into what you tkink are good cattle...But at this points who knows..All I can tell is that you have a chip on your shoulder about Black and Polled Angus..Without you expressing the type of cattle that you own or at least prefer it is hard to deduce anything else...Alf..

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