magpie
Active member
double post...sorry
Longhorns: Good, Bad or Ugly?
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magpie
Active member
recently i talked to one longhorn oldtimer that has raised both commercial cattle for years and years, and then got bored with that and switched to longhorns... he made a fortune with the commercial cattle, and didn't loose it raising longhorns...
this old man is at least 80 years old... has line bred commercial cattle for years, and line bred horses for years, and line bred his own longhorn herd for years...he is now making money hand over fist with his longhorns... (his herd of genetics crossed with another well known herd of genetics is "the hot ticket right now"
he told me, the one thing that was wrong with the longhorns, is that they (breeders) did not make enough use of the linebreeding.... the longhorn varied so much, because of not enough linebreeding...
and as far as i understand/misunderstand it... all breeds started with a small gene pool.. back in their history... you have to have a smaller gene pool to set your traits and make it into the breed of your choice... and then progress from there
------------------
i am seeing in my own research of the state of commercial cattle nowadays, is that they have shoved the idea of crossbreeding so hard down everybody's throats.... that crossbreeding is the end all answer to the commercial cattlemen's problems...
well, in my research, i am seeing, that there are people that do not agree with all this outcrossing.... that in fact, outcrossing has made a mutt genetic pool of your commercial herds... and that it is "harder to fit into the box" with your animals... not easier..
(your most consistant animals will come from a smaller gene pool, not a larger one) look at the anxiety bred hereford line as an example... and i have throughly read and own jim lents linebreeding book...and i bought it to add to my "longhorn" knowledge".
but not all breeders are able to make the decisions that it takes in order to line bred sucessfully...but that is why there are different breeding systems... you use what is sucessful for yourself.
of course.. there are plenty of exceptions to my observation...
--------------------
but in any breeding program you have to have a goal, and some idea of how to get there, and some people have a better picture of what it is they want to see in their own breeding herd.... and a better understanding on how to get there...
and some people don't care about mating stratagy's at all, much less care on how to improve on what they do have... after all, if it was good enough for their grand daddy and their daddy, then gosh darn it... it's good enough for them...
you can take a look at different herds just driving across the country and pretty well guess what kind of manager/owner those herds have... a well planned herd is drop dead easy to spot.. even my longhorn tainted eyes can see that... lol
i have seen both longhorn and commercial herds, and i would take "good longhorns" any day of the week...not just any longhorns... but good longhorns that will fit my breeding plans. grins
i have seen several longhorn herds that i just drool over, because i can literally see the quality, pride and the care that these animals have.
and i have seen commercial herds that also reflect that same quality, pride and care...
that pride and care is what i give to my own longhorns, and they are not the same type of animals that have been misused/abused/underfed and sent to the sale barn that you are more than likely(?) so well aquainted with...
i too don't like the local sale barn animals... they are the bottom of the breed... i have more pride to raising animals than to "only raise sale barn quality"..
even if i wasn't into longhorns, but into commercial cattle, i would still be sticking to raising quality seedstock...i still would not be raising "local sale barn stuff" as my goal... grins
-----------------
the longhorns fell out of favor because of the "tallow" issue... it was the "lack of tallow for the candles in that period of history" is why the longhorn fell out of favor.... that was "the main" reason... there were several (many) other reasons to boot, but tallow/fat was the main one...and the need for a shorter time period to make returns on your investments... it's all about turn around time...which holds true even today. (even in my longhorn market... a fast growing horn is valued more than a slower maturing horn length.)
but that same issue of tallow/fat is why the longhorn is possibly/finally coming back full circle...
what the american public says it wants for healthy food. (some like it lean, and some like it not... the consumer will pursue what it wants for it's supper table)
there is a growing number of people that prefer it lean... not all, not most... but enough to make it a rapidly growing market that is/will attract those willing to pursue that particular avenue.
------------
it takes a different "eye" for longhorns.... you have developed an "eye" for the commercial cattle.... i have learned to develop an "eye" for longhorns...
they are not the same beast... and you have to judge them by their own standards.... i have to judge commercial cattle by commercial cow standards... but i have to use a different "eye" to judge the longhorns....
a longhorn that is fattened up and shown in today's longhorn shows... will not hang like it should... and that is because it is over conditioned....
but when a longhorn is properly conditioned, not over, and not under... but properly conditioned... it will hang like it should...
but you have to understand the difference or you are wasting your time trying to get it to be a commercial cow... it can't be... but it does have it's own job.... as being a naturally lean beef product that mother nature itself has designed... and it does that particular job very well... better than most people understand/realize...
the processing plant that the coop is using for the longhorns... was just as skeptical as the rest of you... he has now processed longhorns and is suitably impressed... he did the processing and didn't believe it... but "has come around to appreciating the longhorn for what it can do"...
the longhorn does not fit into "the feed lot scheme" of things.. and in today's changing world it doesn't have to... it has it own jobs that it does very well... and healthy naturally lean meat is just "one" of those jobs..... grins
this old man is at least 80 years old... has line bred commercial cattle for years, and line bred horses for years, and line bred his own longhorn herd for years...he is now making money hand over fist with his longhorns... (his herd of genetics crossed with another well known herd of genetics is "the hot ticket right now"
he told me, the one thing that was wrong with the longhorns, is that they (breeders) did not make enough use of the linebreeding.... the longhorn varied so much, because of not enough linebreeding...
and as far as i understand/misunderstand it... all breeds started with a small gene pool.. back in their history... you have to have a smaller gene pool to set your traits and make it into the breed of your choice... and then progress from there
------------------
i am seeing in my own research of the state of commercial cattle nowadays, is that they have shoved the idea of crossbreeding so hard down everybody's throats.... that crossbreeding is the end all answer to the commercial cattlemen's problems...
well, in my research, i am seeing, that there are people that do not agree with all this outcrossing.... that in fact, outcrossing has made a mutt genetic pool of your commercial herds... and that it is "harder to fit into the box" with your animals... not easier..
(your most consistant animals will come from a smaller gene pool, not a larger one) look at the anxiety bred hereford line as an example... and i have throughly read and own jim lents linebreeding book...and i bought it to add to my "longhorn" knowledge".
but not all breeders are able to make the decisions that it takes in order to line bred sucessfully...but that is why there are different breeding systems... you use what is sucessful for yourself.
of course.. there are plenty of exceptions to my observation...
--------------------
but in any breeding program you have to have a goal, and some idea of how to get there, and some people have a better picture of what it is they want to see in their own breeding herd.... and a better understanding on how to get there...
and some people don't care about mating stratagy's at all, much less care on how to improve on what they do have... after all, if it was good enough for their grand daddy and their daddy, then gosh darn it... it's good enough for them...
you can take a look at different herds just driving across the country and pretty well guess what kind of manager/owner those herds have... a well planned herd is drop dead easy to spot.. even my longhorn tainted eyes can see that... lol
i have seen both longhorn and commercial herds, and i would take "good longhorns" any day of the week...not just any longhorns... but good longhorns that will fit my breeding plans. grins
i have seen several longhorn herds that i just drool over, because i can literally see the quality, pride and the care that these animals have.
and i have seen commercial herds that also reflect that same quality, pride and care...
that pride and care is what i give to my own longhorns, and they are not the same type of animals that have been misused/abused/underfed and sent to the sale barn that you are more than likely(?) so well aquainted with...
i too don't like the local sale barn animals... they are the bottom of the breed... i have more pride to raising animals than to "only raise sale barn quality"..
even if i wasn't into longhorns, but into commercial cattle, i would still be sticking to raising quality seedstock...i still would not be raising "local sale barn stuff" as my goal... grins
-----------------
the longhorns fell out of favor because of the "tallow" issue... it was the "lack of tallow for the candles in that period of history" is why the longhorn fell out of favor.... that was "the main" reason... there were several (many) other reasons to boot, but tallow/fat was the main one...and the need for a shorter time period to make returns on your investments... it's all about turn around time...which holds true even today. (even in my longhorn market... a fast growing horn is valued more than a slower maturing horn length.)
but that same issue of tallow/fat is why the longhorn is possibly/finally coming back full circle...
what the american public says it wants for healthy food. (some like it lean, and some like it not... the consumer will pursue what it wants for it's supper table)
there is a growing number of people that prefer it lean... not all, not most... but enough to make it a rapidly growing market that is/will attract those willing to pursue that particular avenue.
------------
it takes a different "eye" for longhorns.... you have developed an "eye" for the commercial cattle.... i have learned to develop an "eye" for longhorns...
they are not the same beast... and you have to judge them by their own standards.... i have to judge commercial cattle by commercial cow standards... but i have to use a different "eye" to judge the longhorns....
a longhorn that is fattened up and shown in today's longhorn shows... will not hang like it should... and that is because it is over conditioned....
but when a longhorn is properly conditioned, not over, and not under... but properly conditioned... it will hang like it should...
but you have to understand the difference or you are wasting your time trying to get it to be a commercial cow... it can't be... but it does have it's own job.... as being a naturally lean beef product that mother nature itself has designed... and it does that particular job very well... better than most people understand/realize...
the processing plant that the coop is using for the longhorns... was just as skeptical as the rest of you... he has now processed longhorns and is suitably impressed... he did the processing and didn't believe it... but "has come around to appreciating the longhorn for what it can do"...
the longhorn does not fit into "the feed lot scheme" of things.. and in today's changing world it doesn't have to... it has it own jobs that it does very well... and healthy naturally lean meat is just "one" of those jobs..... grins
novatech
Well-known member
I basically agree with you on the line breeding. But you also speak of the small gene pool they have derived from. If those genetics were the only ones ever used the longhorn would not have developed into the higher quality animal long horn is today. Your quality is probably not a result of direct line breeding but derived from some cross breeding along the way.
Line breeding has its place but so does cross breeding.
Line breeding has its place but so does cross breeding.
Mr. Greenjeans
Well-known member
From what I read, it appears there is an abundance of interest in Longhorns from both protagonist and antagonist standpoints. I would also venture to say the antagonists are those who have never dealt with this breed in particular. My family has raised Angus and Brangus in West Texas for over 100 years where we have summer all year long and then there is January. When it was my turn to start raising cattle, I was a 3 hour drive from my new ranch.
Longhorns were the answer. Since I was ranching in absentia, I had to go with an animal that needed no help whatsoever. It was practically a guarantee to have a calf on the ground per cow every year. The benefits were no need for supplementation, no need for veterinarian services, no need for pulling calves, no need for replacement heifers (they live forever), the ability to thrive in 100+ degree temperatures, and no need for regular visitation. We used a black Brangus bull and the resulting calves where polled (no need for dehorning) with black or black/white color.
Some drawbacks were obvious. They didn't grow and finish out as well as the others but input costs and effort were considerably less. Across the scales calves would bring 85-90 per 100 while the angus calves where bringing 30-40 percent more. We will typically butcher a longhorn cross and prefer the steaks and ground meat due to a product with good flavor that is tender, low fat, and with less grease. Their horns were never a problem. They are very careful with them and will easily turn them to enter the sliding back door of a trailer. Their temperment is certainly unique. You simply have to let them think it is their idea to enter the pen.
Now that I live nearby, I have sold the longhorns to a cousin who is using the same formula. I have brought in heifers from my family's Brangus operation and have seen the corresponding increase in revenue.
Picking the correct breed has less to do with the breed itself and more to do with your environment and personal requirements, so if you are considering Longhorns chose them for the correct reasons and chose high quality animals within the breed. If you have 70 degree weather year round and a ranch that looks like a Colorado meadow, I would bypass my Brangus and head straight to the Gelbvieh or Irish Blacks.
Just a thought -- Greenjeans
Longhorn Brangus Cross calf
Longhorns were the answer. Since I was ranching in absentia, I had to go with an animal that needed no help whatsoever. It was practically a guarantee to have a calf on the ground per cow every year. The benefits were no need for supplementation, no need for veterinarian services, no need for pulling calves, no need for replacement heifers (they live forever), the ability to thrive in 100+ degree temperatures, and no need for regular visitation. We used a black Brangus bull and the resulting calves where polled (no need for dehorning) with black or black/white color.
Some drawbacks were obvious. They didn't grow and finish out as well as the others but input costs and effort were considerably less. Across the scales calves would bring 85-90 per 100 while the angus calves where bringing 30-40 percent more. We will typically butcher a longhorn cross and prefer the steaks and ground meat due to a product with good flavor that is tender, low fat, and with less grease. Their horns were never a problem. They are very careful with them and will easily turn them to enter the sliding back door of a trailer. Their temperment is certainly unique. You simply have to let them think it is their idea to enter the pen.
Now that I live nearby, I have sold the longhorns to a cousin who is using the same formula. I have brought in heifers from my family's Brangus operation and have seen the corresponding increase in revenue.
Picking the correct breed has less to do with the breed itself and more to do with your environment and personal requirements, so if you are considering Longhorns chose them for the correct reasons and chose high quality animals within the breed. If you have 70 degree weather year round and a ranch that looks like a Colorado meadow, I would bypass my Brangus and head straight to the Gelbvieh or Irish Blacks.
Just a thought -- Greenjeans
Longhorn Brangus Cross calf
BTRANCH
Well-known member
I was hesitant to post a reply to this earlier, because I am not a Longhorn expert. However, I do own a Longhorn/Limo cross that I paid $350 for when she was 10 months old. The lady was selling all her unregistered animals due to the drought. We bred her to our Beefmaster bull and she has had 2 of the prettiest heifer calves you have ever seen. They were low birth weight, healthy, and grew like weeds. She breeds back right on schedule. We are very impressed with how well she does on pasture alone and does not get pulled down as much as some of my other cows after calving. We even contacted the lady to see if she had any more to sell. I would take more Longhorns, full or cross, in a heartbeat. I don't think they get the recognition they deserve in the beef cattle world.
Shorthornguy
Well-known member
We have a dozen Longhorn and Longhorn corriente cross cows that we put a polled shorthorn bull on and most of the calves are polled. Cows are 700 to 1000 lbs and wean a 400 to 600 lb calf so we have no complaints. When it comes to calving time it's like Forrest Gump says " Ya never know what yer gonna get"
:lol:
:lol:
